Lowering and spacing

ohhh - lowering - i like to talk about that

 

typically, with drop spindles (i assume this is how you got the 2.5" drop?), they add a slight amount of track (width).  there are some zero offset ones.  do you know which ones you ave?

 

also - most T1-T2 air-cooled folks go the narrowed beam route to  buy some inner fender clearance.

 

most water cooled VW dudes like spacers cause if you are really low, you can sit the fender on the lip of the rim (a la this style):

 

not my cup of tea..

 

I'm not sure about the 'spacer you are talking about, but that it usually refers to the wheel spacer (ie: put the wheel out like the pic above)

 

see my profile pic?  i narrowed my beam to give me more inner fender clearance.

 

There is no way to add spacers to the beam to 'lift' things up - unless he is talking about caster shims.  they will not do what you are needing as they are used for alignment tuning.

Yes lowered now.

 

But advised to put spaces in beam to lift slightly.

 

I was told it was quite a big job and they require the car for the day minimum.

 

I was concerned that I was possibly going to get quite a large bill for hours and hours of worK??

I dont know what spacers he is talking about, or exzactly where it is rubing.he might be talking about a narowed beam witch would be around $300 for the beam then what ever it cost to swap all of your stuff on to it&installinto your car&realigine it. or might be talking about caster shims, but I dont see where they would alter any rubbing issue.there about $15.00 and 30 min to install,might need realinged too.

Yes appears they have used a standard dropped spindle that has caused the rubbing on the guard/fender.

 

As I am now faced with spacers, I was a little concerned that this cost was going to be a big hit due to the casual quote of;  "needing the car for the day and a big job"

 

thanks for your help.

seriously - do it yourself.  we'll help you through it.  it's not hard, nor do you need any crazy tools.

 

any mechanic who talks about adding spacers to decrease offset of wheels would not be getting any of my money.

so how do you add spacer and get the tires back inward??sounds like new wheels, or remove spacers if there are any.or narrow beam.

Yes, the workshop are primarily VW and don't do Speedsters normally.

 

And the tires are right on the guard edge And rub when the wheels turn.

 

I understand the spacers he is talking about will lift the body up. So it appears the spindles and all remain the same.

 

And from what I understand the spacers must go in over the beam??

 

I need to get more information from them and obviously a price.

Sorry if I am confusing you here.

 

Yes the Speedster is lowered by spindles that are standard VW lowering with 2 and 1/2 lowering.

 

The Speedster is based on a 1963 VWchassis.

 

When I am standing looking from above the tire is just inside the guard with the tread Touching the inner upper lip of the guard.

 

The comment made at the workshop was that the lowering spindles have dropped it too low. So he has suggested pacing spacers in to lift it about 1/2 inch.

 

This is now where I get confused?....

 

Is he talking about placing a block or spacer on the beam to lift the body?

 

Mention was made of removing the beam and that taking some time.

 

Sorry but my basic understanding is the spacer must go over the beam to lift the body up - the reverse of the old lowering blocks we used above our rear ends in cars to lower them - with these blocks  placed below the diff to raise it over the leaf springs.

 

mmmmm 

 

thanks guys for the advice as it will arm me with some questions for them....

 

 

Sound like your mechanic is going to put spacers between the top mounts of the beam and the body. What's he going to do about the space that will be created around the passenger compartment and the pan? Al

I have called into see them to go over what is being done.

 

They did mention the option of a shorter/narrow beam.

 

I spoke with one of the workers there who quickly went over the work.

 

But  from talking to the owner as well this morning, they are going to remove the beam and drill and weld it. I think he was describing brackets etc being welded on and holes being drilled out or/and elongated etc.

 

So that allows the centre to turn or similar. This apparently will lift it without altering the steering and alignment.

 

Sorry, I probably do not make a lot of sense here..... 

 

Anyway they assured me it was a bit of work and he is quoting around 5 - 6 hours. 

 

I had considered the shorten beam as an option But it still has labour attached that I old do but there is quite a delay getting them in.

 

Importantly thanks again for the advice...

Maybe adjusters, not spacers? They'd need to be welded in. But while they're at it why not narrow the beam a couple or three inches?

all your posts on this don't leave me with a clear understanding of what your car would look like after 5-6 hours.

 

a 2" narrowed beam is cheap and is literally a bolt in affair.  why not do it yourself?  don't use these guys as a parts broker - go to thesamba.com and buy one yourself.  TONS of places sell 'em.  TONS of very reputable places sell them.  last month in HOTVWs magazine, there was a full article on manufactures of custom beams.

 

if your tires are flush, i'd look at a 3" or maybe even a 4" beam, but that just my $0.02.  i like the tucked look.

 

any beam you buy will have adjusters, so you will be able to fine tune the ride height.  easily.

 

you'll need a new beam, modify your torsion bars (check out my site for tons of pics on how i did mine with a saw and drill press), and then you will need to modify your tie rods.  to do that you'll need a tap with the same thread (~$15 part)

 

scroll down to see the diagram:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDe...Code=C24-113-415-371

 

Thanks yes I am considering doing the work as they cannot work on the car until mid  next week.

 

And thanks guys for the advice.

The process described is consistent with adding Avis adjusters to the front beam as suggested above, and quite frankly is the only thing here that would both make sense and is feasible... This will allow them to raise the front of the car via adjustable suspension. Once a desired height is reached and the tires clear, then it can be aligned. However, a change to ride height after the alignment WILL change the alignment specs.
Anyway (also as suggested above) it is a lot of work and with the front beam out of the car it would be a good time to swap to a narrowed beam, and most of them (if not all) will already be adjustable. Doing this would allow you to keep the car lowered as it is now, or raise it to a desired height easily.
In the end, financially, you should be aimply looking at the cost difference between a new beam and the cost of cutting/welding on the old one, since nearly everything in the front suspension would need to be completely disassembled and later reassembled for either process.

I hope there not wanting to add spacers on top of the beam body mounts to try to lift the body.as the body is mounted all over the place and that would crack the body.adjustable&narrowed beam would be the way to go. or wheels with more offset inward.

Would be helpful to show some pictures and state which dropped spindles were used.  The inexpensive dropped spindles are often welded and result in a 1/2" increased tire track (they add 1/4" each side). EMPI even states that in their ad.  Most costly dropped spindles (such as CB Performance) are cast or forged and don't increase the track.

 

http://www.cbperformance.com/P...asp?ProductCode=4061

 

Are your wheels hitting on the back inside corner of the splash guard/inner fender well?  A hammer, grinder and fiberglass resin/cloth can reshape that.  If on the inner fender lip - it can be ground down too to get 1/4" each side.  

 

Also, you see a lot of lowered VW bugs with 135 or 145 x 15 tires to "correct" the problem.

 

Just some alternatives to consider.

Thanks guys for the help..

Just a couple of things:

Those CB drop spindles add 1/4" track to each side of the front suspension. There is a note part way down the page. My ball joint drop spindles (with caliper mount- done in the mid '80's by Jatech Forge) add 1/2" to each side (just went and measured). All the modified stock spindle assemblies I've seen use a 1/2" (I've heard of some being 5/8") plate. There has to be some offset (or outward spacing), or 15" wheels won't clear the lower ball joint.

 

135 and 145R15's are from an era when there were no other choices when lowering the front of a VW; but they are evil pieces of rubber with so little footprint (not only are they narrow, but being shorter reduces the length of the contact area as well) that handling sucks and braking (especially when on a wet or dusty road) is downright dangerous. But being shorter served another purpose; they didn't hit the headlight buckets when a car was lowered a fair bit. There's such a great selection of smaller diameter tires in widths that we can put to use on the fronts of our cars these days... 

 

As Wolfgang mentioned, if you only need a little more room on the outside, then a little bit of grinding on the inside of the fender edge might do it. If it's not enough, then a narrowed beam is the way to go. If you want to learn more about your car, do it yourself. You'll have a great sense of accomplishment and a much better understanding of your car's front suspension. Don't go more than necessary, though, because the narrower you go, the more you screw up steering geometry. If 2" will do it, then don't go any more; if you want it to handle as well as it can.

 

If your car doesn't have caster shims, now is the time (it will feel much more solid at freeway speeds and higher); they go behind the bottom beam. Gene Berg http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_384_2917 and others sell them.

Hope this helps. Al

Thank again all.

 

Al yes thanks for the info.  I have been doing a lot of work myself on the Speedster but thought the steering and braking was something I would take to the shop. That way getting the work done and the alignments etc right.

 

Yes, thanks again I am heading out to the garage now!!