Marchal Driving Light Mods

Gordon Nichols posted:

 

...a couple of new lenses for my Marchals...

...converting them to H3 Halogen bulbs...

...Started ...by getting some big fender washers...

...one of the grinder bearings had a cataclysmic failure...  

...grinder tear-down/rebuild...

Sorry Gordon, but this sounds like one of those stories that ends with, "...and the fire department is just leaving now."

If it were me, I'd just have a quiet dinner and turn in early.

Hey Gordon, I have done the conversion it is a bit of pain but doable. Proper focusing is the real issue which I have done more or less ... Still thinking about how to do it with more reproducible results.  I have to say an H3 bulb is way brighter and is available everywhere. 

I should mention that the orientation of the bulb is important. 

I thought the bulb orientation might be important, as well as the distance forward from the reflector (spacing the H3 base out on small spacers) but haven't gotten that far yet.  I would think that the light spot at, say, 100 yards, would change shape as the bulb is moved forward and back versus the reflector, but will have to play with it to see what effect it has.  I was going to start by seeing where the Tungsten filament sits and use that as a guide (and then light up my neighbor's house from the garage to see how it looks).  These are driving lights so the lens is pretty much smooth, not fluted as a Fog lamp would be so the bulb orientation might be less critical.

Still have to get my bench grinder fixed (this morning) and finish making the washer/mount.  One bearing was really toast so I got two and am doing a rebuild.  I found the H3 bulbs I bought a long time ago to do this - the NAPA receipt was still with them and dated 2007  

Mitch: No, that sounds more like my last snow blower.  Every time I took it out, something would break, but then it was made in 1980.  My current one is much newer, made in 1987 and doesn't die as often.  It's a 28" wide Ariens, beefed up with a 10hp "Snow King" motor.  "Ar, Ar, Arrr!"

That is a cool conversation.  Instead of using screws to hold the washer and socket together, I would use pop rivet. 

Happy day

Stephen

Wont work to change the bulbs 0

Sure it would.  The H3 is attached to the washer with a couple of screws and is replaced from the lens side.  No matter what you do, the reflector has to come out to replace an H3 bulb so you can get at the wires on the rear of the reflector.  

My washers are 3/16" thick so I'm gonna thread them for 10-32 screws to hold the H3 onto the washer.  The pop-rivet idea is worth looking into, so thanks, Stephen.   I also have found that the original "+" terminal for the tungsten bulb tab need not be removed so I can easily convert them back to the old bulbs whether or not I rivet everything together.  I'll take a slow look at it tomorrow.  All I got done today was to get my bench grinder back together and spun down the fender washers to 1.625" OD without further catastrophe.  I also made up a small fixture to hold the reflector while I drill the holes in the bulb holder so I won't have to remove the holder from the reflector to modify it.  I little risky, but should be OK.

Definitely not as much progress as Ed Erickson makes, but after a certain age you tend to arrive at something akin to "Island Time".  I've been in the slow lane for years, now...

Yes, you can keep all the original stuff by simply piggy backing the positive post and then simply heat shrinking the contact positive post to reuse at a later time. 

I simply used locking nylon nuts and squeezed the two washers and the bracket. You have to line up the bulb and this holder then simply turns and locks into the back of the lease reflector. 

This was my approach. 

Clever!  I didn't realize that the bulb holder was so easily removed - that'll help a lot.

At least, since I'm going slow on this, I can consider different alternatives.  It would be nice to have a spring to hold the bulb in, but then I might as well just buy an H3-style light in the first place!

Yes just make sure to notice the orientation and mark it somthat when you drill the holes your blulb will be aligned.

the main issue at the end is the focus which in the end relies on spacing the bulb in or out 

if you tap the screw it might be a better setup 

i thought of molding a piece with aluminum to hold the bulb and then I thought of trying to fit an LED h3 instead of tungsten

with fogs the focus is more critical

Gordon you can look here for more info and a full pict series... HERE  The only thing not shown is the guy removing the GLASS, and using the Reflector only to focus the bulb... not an easy task and I did not do it that way... 

I found this pict of the lense differences. 

Yeah, I have the lens on the left.  Been playing with just the H3 bulb and the reflector and found that I can drive the cat, of the neighbor across the street, nuts by shining a spot in their living room window.    Light it up and "Whoosh!"  The cat is jumping up and down against the far wall chasing her shadows.  

In the end, I used 6-32 screws everywhere and tapped the washer for the bulb mounts, and have arrived at 1/4" spacers between the washer and the H3 base.  Move the bulb closer to the reflector and the spot widens out.  Move it further out and the spot concentrates.  I've arrived at a spot that should be slightly wider than a lane at 1/4 mile so both lights should give me the entire road width and broaden more as you go further out - just like my old Cibie Super Oscars.   That's WAY better than the old bulbs that didn't project forward as much as a huge ball of light that lit up oncoming tree tops rather than the road.

I'll have to get a couple LED H3 bulbs to see what they look like (I am intrigued, for sure).  The LED configuration is different than a "normal" H3 bulb so they might not focus as well.  The normal H3 filament is 1/4" long and can be either vertical or horizontally config'd (it doesn't seem to matter with these reflectors/lenses).  The LED version spreads the light source out over a larger area so may not be affected as much by bulb position in or out (and might also cast a wider spot at distance).  Just have to get some and play with them, but the basic light conversion is the same for either bulb.  Here's an H3 LED bulb - mouse over the photo to zoom in:

http://www.madhornets.com/h3-5...OEAQYAyABEgI9o_D_BwE

BTW:  This all started when I broke a lens last Fall.  I priced a replacement lens - Stoddards was the only place I found that had them and at $108 + shipping EACH!  A whole new light is about $150 from the guy Carey Hines gave me down in Florida!  The lenses are not usually sold separately and they've got'cha.

Then, the day after I got back from down South I found a pair of original Marchal 672/682 lenses on eBay for $140 the pair including shipping!  Simply lucked into that, and they both have the "patina" of old lenses so that's what I'll be using, plus I now have a spare lens.  They fit my reproduction lights perfectly.

Gordon, can you post some picts of how you did it to see if your set up is what I should try to emulate.  The focus is my issue  

Sure, but I've taken it apart to duplicate it on the other light.  I'll have it back together tomorrow.

Gordon Nichols posted:

 

...I can drive the cat, of the neighbor across the street, nuts by shining a spot in their living room window.... Light it up and "Whoosh!"  The cat is jumping up and down...

 

Gordon, it must have seen the box the Marchal lenses came in:

I would really like to see the washer and how you attached it and adjust for focus. 

Patience, Padawan.....  Slowly the Force works with this one.  Photos mañana.

I attached the washer with 6-32 screws and nuts, but mis-judged the spacing for the screw holes so they're a bit too close to the center.  That meant grinding off the nuts on one side to make them almost half-nuts (I just know I'm opening up to some "Sacto-Mitch" pearls of wisdom, there) so they could still fit under the bulb holder.  That turned out OK, because then they hold themselves in place while tightening the screw.  Pretty cool, huh?  Also, I had some interference between the 12 o'clock washer screw and the top screw of the bulb holder so I rotated the washer 45 degrees and then the bulb holder could be mounted with one screw at the top and bottom w/o interference.  That's when I needed a whole new washer.  Photos to follow.

On the top of the washer, I drilled the two holes to hold the H3 base down, but one is off-center (my bad), hence, causing me to make up a third washer to make things "righter" for the next light.   I threaded those two holes for a 6-32 screw and then got some aluminum spacers (local ACE Hardware) to hold the H3 base up off of the washer (like on the descriptive website) and #6 star lock washers under the screw head.   As it turns out, the 1/4" spacer gets the filament up to approximately the same height off of the washer as the original Tungsten bulb's filament was and the focal point seems about right.  I approximated the height by eyeballing the gap when I was playing with the bulb and reflector, pushing the bulb in and out and watching the spot on the house across the street (while the cat was jumping around).  I can light up all of their front bay window (approx. 7' wide at a distance of ≈60 yards).  WAY more light out there than the Tungsten bulb variation.  As a comparison, the T-Bulb threw this YUGE cloud of light in a vertical circle maybe 30-40 feet in diameter in front of me.

Sorry, I wasn't sure I had written clearly.

OK, Ray....Here ya go:

H3 mounted in the reflector:

Back of the socket showing the half-nuts

Couple of shots showing the modified bulb holder with the 1/4" aluminum spacers.  

I had to clearance the ID of the washer to let the H3 12V lead get by, but that was minor.  A different bulb might have been fine without the file work.

I'll pull the other light tomorrow and get that one modified, too.  That one should go much quicker as all of the head scratching is done.   I also ordered (due in next week) a pair of H3 LED bulbs to play with.  Couldn't pass them up for the money and FREE SHIPPING!    gn

LED H3 Bulbs

Thanks Gordon. 

Cool stuff, Gordon.

"Cool stuff, Gordon."

And that, from the guy who's fab'ing up entire Spyder sub-assemblies from scratch with "just stuff kicking around the shop".

I bow to your fabrication skills, Ed!

Gordon, which part allows you to focus the bulb?  did you pre focus and cut the small collar accordingly? 

The aluminum stand-offs (tubes) under the H3 base allow you to focus the light.

As it happens, using 1/4" spacers gets the H3 bulb filament to almost exactly the same distance from the base of the reflector as that of the Original Tungsten bulb (TB).  So, going on the assumption that someone knew about reflector geometry when designing that Marchal lamp (I sure as heck don't), I started out assuming that I would end up there because they already did.  

I made up a pair of tongs (popsicle sticks with rubber bands to hold them together) to hold the bulb in the reflector and move it about - in, out, left, right - just to see how much chaos I could cause with the cat across the street.  What I found is that the light spot didn't change intensity much, but moving the bulb fore and aft caused the spot to change shape smaller and wider, but the difference really wasn't enough to worry much about.  The sweet spot was pretty much where the TB filament was.

Now, the shape of the H3 LED bulbs I'm getting is much different (see the link a few posts up) - 6 LEDs on each of four sides, each side looks to be 5/8" tall so I would expect to see (1.) a brighter spot because the light emitted is whiter and (2.) less of a difference were you to move the bulb in or out in the reflector, because you no longer have a light point (the H3 filament) but instead have a light plane on 4 sides about 3/8" X  5/8" so the focus should be far less critical (if you move the plane in or out you shouldn't see a difference in pattern) AND you'll get a larger spot to boot.  I'm looking forward to getting them to play with but I'm not expecting to have to change the mounts at all to accommodate them as the bulb base is the same on both.

Amazingly, my LED bulbs that were supposed to be here on 4/4 arrived today from the "Middle Kingdom".  

I'll be playing with them on Monday.

Someone please enlighten me;  How is it possible that I just bought and received, in three days, TWO H3 LED bulbs, each with a holder and 25 LEDs, all assembled and ready to install to light up my world, for $3 bucks EACH with free shipping!  

From Walmart!  

I can't imagine (a.) what these things actually cost to make and ship and (b.) how many other things we're buying every day that are heavily subsidized, somehow, without our knowing it.  All we see are inexpensive goods.  THEY CAME FROM CHINA!  Air shipping alone from there is $3 bucks each!

Yeah, those are too cheap to be right. Someone is trying to take over an industry.

I marvel at this nearly every day. My heart breaks a little when the USPS man drops off a box from Amazon Prime... on Sunday.

It appears the postal service has hired a bunch of people for all these packages. I do not like Sunday delivery though. I think it should always be a day of rest.

Well!

I had a few minutes this morning before heading out to the family festivities so I went out and did a comparison of the Halogen H3 versus the LED H3 bulbs I bought.  

I believe I have discovered why these two LED bulbs were so cheap.....

BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY CHEAP!

When assembled and "tuned" to the reflector, the Halogen H3 can throw a lane-wide spot on the house across the street and into my neighbor's living room...

We're talking peel off his siding bright.  

Light up his whole living room on an overcast day, bright.  

New England Wicked bright.  

Waaay brighter than the Tungsten bulb ever was.

OTOH, The LED H3s I bought, at $3 bucks each, delivered, are almost as bright as my Home Depot $12.95 12-LED flashlight that I hate because it can't hold a candle to a "Maglite".  

In other words; They're sucky.

To quote Kurt Vonnegut in "Cat's Cradle":  "In this world, you get what you pay for."

Back.....   To the Halogens!

So..... I'm only out 6 bucks.... Maybe I can use them as "courtesy Lights" under the dash.  At least they don't get hot.....  

Hey - quick (and thought provoking) update:

On the way home from the Gym I bought another, new pair of Halogen H3 bulbs (I had used the old bulbs to fit them to the washer and didn't trust them now).  These are the same overall height as the last ones (to the top of the glass bulb) BUT the filament is positioned 1/4" higher in the bulb with an extra support-thingie inside - Maybe their more rugged than the others I have?  

When I installed them with the 1/4" spacers and tested inside of the garage, I got almost no light in the center, with a big halo of light around the perimeter - Maybe 6 feet around at 24 feet distance.  "WTF is goin' on?!??!?!?!?!?"

So I pulled the bulb and got out my popsicle tongs and just stuck the bulb into the back of the reflector and found that, as you moved it into the reflector, you see a ball of light, turning into a horizontal ellipse of light, that then blends into a dark center and a big, light halo at the edges.  As it turns out with these new bulbs, if I delete the aluminum spacers and mount the H3 base right on the new washer, the light pattern is really good and almost round (slight widening left and right).  A 1/4" bulb height difference makes a YUGE! difference in light pattern.  

So now I've learned just about all I want to learn about Halogen and LED H3 bulbs and grinding washers and drilling holes.  It's time to get my car back together.

Good stuff, will you be making these for the rest of the group? 

This has been an unbelievably frustrating effort.  I don't know if I'm just getting old or things just weren't going my way, but I will be thrilled to see them back together and not have to deal with them ever again.  I made the washers twice for both light because they didn't come out right the first time, or they didn't fit the reflector collar, or the holes were slightly off or something else.

And when I went to put the reflectors back in to the light housing there seems to be some interference between the reflector electrical terminals and the back of the housing that wasn't there before (and I didn't change that part) so they won't seat properly - I don't know what the heck is going on.  I just walked away from them after struggling for two hours with them.  Gonna wolf down some chips and salsa and open a bottle of Cabernet and deal with the damn things tomorrow.

And no.....   I'm not making any more of them!

Quitter!

Lol, I know how you feel, I spent 2 hours sanding (witch I hate more than anything) my top yesterday and was really in a groove with the grinder. I was going fast and making progress when suddenly I slipped and ground out a big spot that I did not want...

Gordon, last night I changed the coolant temp sensor on the Audi V8. It kept throwing an occasional hi-temp code, but everything else shows normal. So after online research, they go. So I got it out, and out the new one in. However, that damn retaining clip WOULD NOT go in. Just not enough room between the back of the block and the firewall for my hands. I spent an hour on it, quit, had a beer, and ate dinner.

After dinner I went back out there and I still couldn't get it. Michelle got it in about 5 minutes. Thank goodness for skill, patience , and small hands!

Sometimes, it's just like this:

A glass of a really decent Pinot Noir usually fixes it.

What a difference a day (and half a bottle of wine last night) makes.

Everything's back together and I'm remounting both lights.  Trying something a little different at the mounts to make them easier to aim once on the car.  

And it's not even snowing today!