Master Cylinder

Are you sure its the shifter and not the transmission?

 

Dealing with paint should be interesting.  How much are you getting quotes for?

Re-painting the whole car?

 

That will be quite the bill to Vintage. 

 

Hope everything works out for you before Carlisle. I'm planning to drive my SAS Cabriolet to Carlisle and dropping my wife off in Knoxville before continuing on my way to Carlisle. If you're interested in meeting up with me and some others perhaps I can swing by your way on my way to Knoxville.

         

No actually I can not be sure, but will say that the physicallity and nose is all pointing to the shifter.  I worked to adjust it and it got better but not great.  Clutch was also adjusted and feels much much better but did nothing for the shifter.  I am about 98% sure it is shifter related.  BUT - under warranty and I will find out for sure!!!

Not getting any quotes yet.  Took it to one shop and they said they couldnt do it.  I have a can of the actual left over paint they used.  problem is the car has some metalic - it is a Porsche Seal Grey color...not heavy metalic but enough to make it look different.  a for instance picture.  this is on my engine lid.  these are the types of fixes I need done.  Spots on the car were not color sanded and others were so I am looking into trying to have paint fixed as best as possible and then having the car completey detailed by a pro...some more wet sand, etc...

I dont think I could live with myself if I sent them a bill for a whole respray as 90% of the car is good.  There are a lot of drips in the paint...5 spots to be exact but looks to be in base coat and not the clear coat so nothing can be done except sand and respray but it really all comes down to matching the paint - even though I have probably enough to do it, a lot of the people I am talking to are shying away. There is a lot of spots with ornage peel that need knocked off...some of the car was done but some pieces were missed apparently.   I have sourced through the local PCA club a company here that does a lot of corvettes, porsches, etc and the corvette thing caught my attention because of the fiberglass.  As soon as my brakes are done, I am making a trip to see them.  I dont think it will be more than a few hundred bucks, but at the end of the day I paid a lot of money for a 7 out of 10 paint job.  Not sure if you saw on another post but two different people at different times asked if it was MY first time doing a paint job.  Sad.  BUT - I am seeing the finish line and hoping to get this thing done up the way it should have been sent to me when you buy something new!

Hey man!  Yeah, I am about 95% sure Carlisle is out of the picture.  BUT - if you are coming up 95North then YES - you have to stop by or meet out somewhere.  Would be great to meet you for sure!!!  Let me know when the time gets closer!

PS - just opened the can of paint that was sent to me by VS and it is black...soooo, that isnt going to help.

"I dont think I could live with myself if I sent them a bill for a whole respray as 90% of the car is good."

 

With all the **** hassles you have had with this car, I would have no hesitancy in making them pay for a complete paint job.  They should be embarrassed to send a car out in this condition.

DANG, Todd! Hopefully you still have your sanity once this car is all sorted out and you can finally enjoy the ride!

Ya that really sucks that you had to deal with all this stuff.  After looking at paint I would really be upset as that is very expensive to fix.

Yikes---what a "paint" job---looks like a seal gray orange! 

 

Kirk surely was away this one made it through the shop---he would never allow such an awful job to get out. He will want to take this up with his painter, whoever that is.

You should see the paint on Vince's new VS--absolutely show quality which is what usually comes out of the Vintage shop. 

 

Just keep Kirk appraised of whjat needs to be done---I am sure Kirk will want a happy ending for you.  I have found Lirk to be the best and know you will too.

 

Keep us posted.

Yeah, but the difference is that Vince lives nearby and can drop in during the build Process to watch what's going on, request corrections and do his own shakedown before he takes delivery.  Those of us a couple of time zones away aren't so fortunate and have to take what we get and then jump through hoops to get local people to finish the job.  It shouldn't be that way, but from the California builders it sure looks that way.

Shouldn't be too hard to get repaired. If it didn't have the hint of metallic, just about any good shop could do it. Metallics are quite a bit more difficult to repair and get right.

Must be nice to have a show quality job,  I have about 10 emails discussing paint with Kirk including one that says I will be showing this off to many people here locally at shows, etc and there is a big market for these cars here...living 15 minutes from the beach and a lot of money in town.  Make it a good paint job please...  and the rest is history.  I guess my issue is that i am not hearing any solution from them...and they know what I am dealing with as I have written several times about how upset I am with the paint, etc.  Not one word back other than we will send you some touch up paint and - like I said earlier - it is black and not the color of my car.

I hope so too.  I know my wife is probably more upset than I am right now over this.  AND THAT IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO BE

another pic of the leading edge of driver door...

heres one of the door drips...at least it looks wet lol

 

 

I would send it back!

you know what, I just got to thinking about this.  I am lucky in the sense that I am able to buy one of these.  It is a really cool car.  it will get sorted.  I am not sure without a full respray that i will ever be satisfied...so there is only one thing I can do. Stop complaining about it. 

 

The only one that is going to make it right knows the issues and the ball is in their court.  they have stepped up on a lot of things so far and I really appreciate that...I have as well taking off time to do all this crap...but at the end of the day, it is mine and I have to deal with it. 

 

I am done complaining about the car from here on out.  I just want to enjoy it.  I appreciate everyone who has given me insight and thoughts...but time to move on to just getting the car right...

Hahahhahahaha!!

Sorry, not laughing at you... laughing at the lack of attention to detail from VS.

$h!t just keeps on adding up.

 

I feel for ya man

So - Master Cylinder done.  Went from the stock 7 1/8 to the 8.5 so - the bigger one...and it works really well.  So much better.  They adjusted the brake pedal as well but I think went a hair to much as I believe it is actually keeping the brakes on.  Smelled a little burning on the drive home...did a smell test and it is coming from the brakes.  Either that or they are just now working so well that the brake pads are actually settling in!    VS had to overnight them a new rear driver side brake line as it is seeping and was not crimped properly.  No mess on my floor from brake fluid but it was getting close.  So that will be done tomorrow as well. 

 

If you buy a VS or any speedy for that matter and have disc brakes, I highly recommend making sure up front that the bigger master cylinder is used righ out of the gate.  lol

forgot to mention...the shop I went to believes they were able to figure out the oil cooler leak.  I was worried about messing with it as the fitting break easily - so im told - so the guy stuck his hand up, could see the leak, and was actually able to tighten the brass fitting BY HAND.  wow - that could have been really bad.  Says he loosened hose, snug it up right and re - tightened hose.  I have the cardboard underneath with some shop paper towels to see.  I have run out of good cardboard space!  Fingers crossed.

Todd- There should be a small bit (1/8"?) of freeplay in the pedal before the pushrod contacts the master cylinder; push the pedal by hand. If you look closely at the pushrod you'll see it's adjustable, so if that's what's up with your brakes it's easily fixable. Al

 

PS- Is it possible to find out the part #, or application for the bigger master cylinder? And you have drums (type 1, or beetle) in the back, am I correct?

I really wish you well with this car, and I hope it all turns out okay.

 

But I am very dismayed at the lack of any type of quality control in its production.  I don't think I could be anywhere near as calm as you are about all of this.

so not laughing at me but with me?  LOL - thats funny...realllllllly funny.

I am just going to wait - I need to go back tomorrow for the brake line install anyway so I will let them do it...but yes, I think that is what it is and they did too over the phone. 

 

I had disc installed all the way around and after some digging with VS found out what I have:

 

AC Industries Disc Brake kit 275MM 5 bolt.

 

the new master cylinder is a vw 20.8mm made by AC Industries.  part number is 113611020BDD.  Not exactly sure which one was on there...but would have been the normal VS install with disc up front and drum in back I think...something smaller.

That's the right attitude; you know what? I don't have a perfect paint job in my VS either and also had to sort my car out in a few different aspects and I just enjoyed the process. Now that it's sorted I drive and enjoy the heck out of it. The troubles were worth it. By the way; I love my AC Industries wide five front disc brakes.

Gentlemen,

 

I've been a regular contributor here since 2000. I've owned three speedsters. I'm not new to this. I've been watching this whole thing unfold from the beginning, and I was pretty sure where the story was going before it got here. I went through all of this in 2002 with another CA builder (we'll call it "Brand X"). Paul Eric Rich went through it with the old Thunder Ranch. Tom Dewalt went through it with JPS. There are more, but this is enough to establish a trend.

 

As Gordon pointed out, the California guys who can sit on top of their builds often get top-notch stuff for less money that the "top-tier" builders get. John Leader's gray GT from JPS was one of the coolest speedsters I've ever seen. Jack said Vince's widebody VS has "show-quality paint".

 

Guys a couple of time-zones away are quite often disappointed when they try to get the same thing. I'm not sure why we don't seem to be able to get the same thing for any amount of pushing hard or sucking up... but we don't. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. It got bad enough at TR that a guy with some capital said, "if I run this like a business, THINK how much better this could do", and bought the company. I remember when Cary STARTED Special Edition (Beck Speedsters). It was a similar deal, and he's been very successful. Intermeccanica has ALWAYS done business this way-- and as a result, even confirmed tight-wads like me will fork over piles hard-earned cash to get exactly what they are paying for.

 

The whole thing reminds me of the tale of the old man and the scorpion. There's a scorpion in a bucket of water. It can not get out, and is in the process of drowning. It calls out to passersby, "HELP! Help me out of here". An old man takes pity, and helps the scorpion out of the bucket, whereupon it stings him on the hand. As he lays dying, he asks the scorpion why he would harm the only one to try to help. The scorpion answers, "I know you meant well. But at the end of the day, I am a scorpion, and I must do what I must do".

 

How various builders put together cars is pretty well documented. The problem is that every so often one of us (and I'm talking about myself here) thinks that by force of will, or sheer enthusiasm, or application of principles that have brought us success in our chosen profession, we're going to be the one to get the BEST car a builder has ever screwed together. I bought my "Brand X" speedster believing that I could ride herd on a builder from 3000 mi away to put together a car as nice as IM would build me. It was hubris. I was wrong.

 

Todd is making peace with this. The car will never be what he hoped it would be, but it never could have been. A Vintage costs about half of what an IM does at this point, and the gap is getting greater every day. Aside from the shape of the body, there's not much similarity between them. Ford used to advertise that their Granada looked pretty much like a Mercedes-- and it sort of did, if a guy had a couple of beers, and squinted just so in the half-light. But even if they looked identical-- the Ford was no Benz, and never would be.

 

It shouldn't surprise anybody that we're playing out a "Groundhog Day" scenario yet again. Nobody wants to fight a holy-war over manufacturers again-- but really forewarned IS forearmed, and knowing how stuff works is in everybody's best interest.

Well said Stan!

+1 Stan. We have seen the same thing in Spyderland. I was VERY lucky to get the paint job I did on my Spyder(silver). Now it is white because of many things, but that is another story. I am really glad I bought a rolling kit as so much was included for a great price, then I sourced the motor from Jake.

 

But my point is that the California guys get their cars quickly and in great shape. Any problems are quickly handled due to sheer proximity. But like Stan says a couple time zones away is a different story. I might note that Carey and Kevin Hines are the exception to this rule in Spyderland. They have always served their customers with courtesy and professionalism. Not so the other two brands. Happily one of those problems seems to be fixed. The other, I own, and love the car. But, to get it and all the parts was a long and painful process, and some people still have problems and think they are special and this will not happen to me!

Stan---perfect.  That post should go into Articles right beside that other good article "Are you ready for a Speedster replica"?  You broached a subject that is almost taboo here on the SOC!  Who has the fortityude to knock the builder of the brand they drive when they might have to contact them some day for assistance?  Not very many---almost none at all, that's who.

 

I have always had the thought that all builders should have a special "quality tier"  whereby a person could add another $x,xxx  or whatever amount to guarantee a step up in quality---like a "presorted" Replica for some amount of  additional money.  Of course some builders: (Im, SAS, Beck, etc.) have already done exactly that and you can be assured of receiving a finely built replica that you can actually use right off the delivery truck.  Or than would be guaranteed able to drive from the factory to a persons home.

 

An example; Vintage charges more for a car painted black.  Why?---Hin't: it's not because black paint is costlier!  It's the necessary extra  blocking and sanding--the additional prep work to get an acceptable finish in a black color because real dark colors are more unforgiving of poor prep work and spraying technique.  My point is, if you get better paint for additional money, why couldn't you get better other stuff for more money too?  It's a "pay me now or pay me later" thing that applies to the whole car.  I have a $40,000 Vintage now and am totally happy and thrilled  with it in every regard.  It will out perform almost all other brands now that cost the same $$$ as I have in it.

 

I do believe that all replicas regardless of brand or price should be 100% serviceable and look near perfect when they are delivered. (What a concept---right?)  I am sad to see the cars up for sale with 500 miles that turned out to be horror stories starting day one.  We are talking about the reason this occurs and what might be done about it.

 

 

Thanks for a great post, Stan.

 

Mine was a new build as well. I definitely agree things should come out perfectly when new but when it doesn't happen why get all worked up and lose years of your life in the process? Just have fun sorting it out and then driving it; that's why I say TDR has got the right attitude and I believe Kirk will stand behind his product.

"forewarned IS forearmed, and knowing how stuff works is in everybody's best interest."

Really?  

 

I would really like to believe that, but recent history has not borne it out.  Tom DeWalt got a TERRIBLE, unsafe car that got "sorted out" by several other people after my son drove it back to Tom's place after Carlisle and arrived with two inches of water in the footwells.  Kelly Frazer got a car with the steering coupler loose and could have killed him.  Paul Rich got a car with so many safety and cosmetic issues I would have been embarrased if I had built and delivered it.  

 

After all the commotion about DeWalt's ordeal trying to get his car to where it should have been and all of the fighting with JPS (and it finally took Carey Hines to finish sorting it before Tom sold it), I get on here and see someone else all excited about buying a new car from JPS and how wonderful it was going to be.  Really?  We saw the same thing after Paul Rich's fight with Thunder Ranch.  That just tells me that newbies (and some semi-experienced people) either don't read what the hell is going on here, don't care, or think "that happened to him, but it will never happen to me!"  How many issues does it take to get things to change?  This stuff hasn't changed with some of these builders in 20 years!!!!!!!!!

 

OK, so cosmetic problems are one thing and I could look the other way on some of them, but somewhere we, as an enthusiast community, have to draw the line at safety issues like loose steering components or non-working brakes or non-working brake/directional lights and quickly get the word out to any and all prospective buyers that cars coming from certain "builders" ARE NOT SAFE TO DRIVE UPON DELIVERY if you live more than 1 hour from their shop and don't police the hell out of them during your build.  Further, if you live more than one time zone away you should plan on no fewer than four visits during the build and an additional visit prior to shipment to spend a weekend doing an acceptance ride of at least 200 miles, followed by a builder punch list of things needing to be fixed to your satisfaction before you write that final check.  I would like to see that acceptance visit at the builder's expense, but I doubt THAT will ever happen.  For God's sake!  You're paying over $25 thousand dollars to get a car without blemishes that is (supposed to be) safe!!!!!!!!!  You wouldn't have these problems with a Kia, would you?  We've seen people on here condemning SAS for taking 3 years to build a car, but at least when they deliver it you hear no complaints from the new owners!

 

I would REALLY like to see this product/safety quality improve and begin to see a flow of decent, safe cars being delivered and meeting customer expectations East of the Rockies from these builders before we see a non-mechanical newbie take delivery and get injured or killed on their first drive.  I think we, as a community, have been very lucky, so far, but I really doubt that our luck will hold forever.  In the 1990's, Curt Scott policed the hobby, saw what was happening, exposed it and named names.  All of his advertisers dried up and he left kit car publishing.  He got crucified by the industry insiders he exposed and many are still around, but someone has to do it........before a buyer gets hurt.  

 

This post may put a red letter on my forehead, but I sure as hell will feel bad when we finally see a post from someone's relative that so-and-so the speedster owner died while driving their new car.

You know...i didnt think it would happen to me.  I had experience with Vintage.  I spent a lot of time with Roland on my last car.  My 2002 speedster was bought by me with 1500 miles on it and was in better shape in 2011 than my new one.  Better paint job, no leaks, no problems...except for engine.  But it was a 10 year old car and i had some work to do to get the engine up to snuff.  But the car was solid.  So naturally I thought.  Wow...great car, i know the people, etc so how can I lose?  I think as time goes along businesses can tend to forget what got them to where they are.  I am in HR and deal with the most unpredictable thing in the world everyday...people. 

I expected more.  I want more.  I will work with what I have been given and just hope the rest gets sorted quickly so I can enjoy it.  One things for sure.  If I ever sell it, it will be well documented!

Its a bad ass looking ride.  And even with shi7 for paint people love it. 

But - i think someone said it best.  For now I have to keep the peace.  I need help and by pissing off the builder I may not get it.  Someday I will give my opinion.  The builders know this site exists...they should be concerned.  BUT guess what...people wanting to get into the hobby dont care about it as much as you think.  VS had 10 cars getting done 3 weeks ago...

Good post Gordon.  There are some happy Vintage and JPS owners on this site, but from what I've read an unacceptable proportion of vehicles they produce are seriously flawed.  No wonder we see so many near new 356 replicas for sale.

I'm surprised they're still in business.

I hate to drag this up again but the old site had a owners review area where individual likes and dislikes of owner's cars had a place to be voiced. You can believe that I took the time to read each and every one before I made a choice. Most future owners come here to learn before they throw their money down on a dream. The least we can do is to share our experiences in one place. Bring that feature back to this site for the good of the hobby.

It was worthless, Jim.

 

I based the purchase of my "Brand X" on the near universal (ALL 10s!!!) accolades in the owners review section. It resembled "The Emperor's New Speedster", where nobody would say what they really thought for fear of wrecking any hope of resale. It's hard to stanch the bloodletting when you paper the internet with bad reviews of the product you hope to sell.

 

There's an answer to the problem, but I'm not sure what it is. I know it's not teh owner's review section.