Maui garage find Intermeccanica rebuild

Jan Peter Stahl posted:

& you should invest some money in a smaller pulley to reduce the fan speed. The original 175mm is way too big for 5000 revs.

usually for more than 4000 you need a smaller one, I would go at least to a 146mm.

and don't worry about the cooling this will not be affected or even better because the stock fan can't handle the high revs anyway.

And check the alternator before you reassemble, usualy after a fan crash it's not in line anymore and ready for the trashcan

Great tips, thanks Jan!

Mike

DannyP posted:

Mike, you should be able to pound that out with a hammer and braze it closed, then maybe a touch of bondo and paint. And a new welded/balanced fan and a new stand. Check the alternator shaft, keyways, keys, etc. carefully though.

The directional vanes inside may be damaged as well; it may just be time for a new shroud.

Would damage to the fan blades be from stuff getting sucked into the shroud or is there something else, like bearings wearing out that would cause that?

Speaking of a new Shroud, I have never seen this old shroud of Turin, have you?

Mike:  That is quite a mess.  I hope you can get it all sorted out.

And that is the extent of my technical advice...

Mike in this situation my motto is " When in doubt throw it out "  Get new so that you don't revisit this ..sorry to hear of this .

Alan Merklin posted:

Mike in this situation my motto is " When in doubt throw it out "  Get new so that you don't revisit this ..sorry to hear of this .

100% with you, Alan!

Panhandle Bob posted:

Would damage to the fan blades be from stuff getting sucked into the shroud or is there something else, like bearings wearing out that would cause that?

I don't think it has to do with anything like that, Bob; it's my understanding that even a new stock fan in perfect shape will come apart after being subjected to enough higher rpm bursts. There doesn't seem to be a set number- rev the engine significantly higher than stock often enough and it will come apart. Some last longer than others, but it's enough of a certainty that you can count on it happening eventually.

The good elves at Wolfsburg never envisioned engines running at more than 4500 rpm, and to be honest I don't think I've ever heard of a fan coming apart on a stock carbureted engine. Remember, we're taking properly engineered parts that almost never fail when run within their original operating parameters and subjecting them to way more stresses than they were ever designed for. IIrc, the common thought is that for a fan to survive above 6,000 rpm with any regularity it needs to have no wear on the center where it fits on the collar (it will round out if the nut that holds it onto the shaft isn't torqued properly) and it needs to welded/balanced.

Mike seems to have got the short end of the stick.

Ouch.

Now I know why Tony insisted the fan blades on my new (six years ago) engine be welded.

At the time, I asked the engine builder how many revs the engine was safe to. He said about 6200. But, somehow, I've never had it over 5000.

Deep inside me (I think it may be somewhere between my shoulder blades), there's a rev limiter. The engine revs easily to 5000, and starts pulling really well over 4000, but it's MY rev limiter that kicks in around there.

It just doesn't sound right to me winding the thing up that high. It sounds like I'm tempting fate. Like something very well might let go.

None of my modern cars have done that. They sound the same at 5000 as at 3000, only a little louder. My old 2002 would hum along all day at 5000 (about 85 mph) and sounded, well, purposeful doing it.

This Briggs and Stratton is of another era, though, and - to me at least - sounds that way. I respect its age.

And just where are you going in such a hurry, anyway - marooned as you are on that tiny, little island? You're going to careen around some corner and fall into the ocean.

You'll shoot your eye out.

Panhandle Bob posted:

Would damage to the fan blades be from stuff getting sucked into the shroud or is there something else, like bearings wearing out that would cause that?

Nope.

The fan wheel flies apart because unwelded, unbalanced, unaligned fan wheels of all types tend to blow apart when they exceed their design RPM. Carrier package HVAC units are notorious for doing this. When they go, it's pretty manly-- shrapnel everywhere

...unfortunately, it's the same deal with a VW Type 1 (only the parts are heavier).' 

Get a welded/balanced fan-- for the children.

Mike-

Really, really sorry man. I'm pretty sure there is zero difference between the EMPI and Scat 36 hp doghouse shrouds. I'd bet a latte that they come from the same place. This is one of the EMPI parts that has nothing wrong with it.

If it were me, I'd get the full-meal deal: shroud, welded/balanced fan, backing plate, alternator, stand, and a pair of cylinder tins, just to be safe. Hopefully, the cylinder and head fins are OK.

Since you’re about to be the father of a new alternator stand, is it possible to change the mount from case studs to bolts?  (I saw your current nuts and looks like they’re function specific for something else).  If you can change them, it makes it a lot easier to get the fan/alternator off without pulling the shroud if you ever need to service it later on.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Since you’re about to be the father of a new alternator stand, is it possible to change the mount from case studs to bolts?  (I saw your current nuts and looks like they’re function specific for something else).  If you can change them, it makes it a lot easier to get the fan/alternator off without pulling the shroud if you ever need to service it later on.

Good idea, Gordon. I'm sure I can figure out a sleeve for the linkage mounts.

Using my phone I wasn’t able to see any of your recent pics Mike. 

mppickett posted:

Robert M posted:

Using my phone I wasn’t able to see any of your recent pics Mike. 

Hmm, anyone else having this problem?

No photos

Mike, I slotted the two holes on the back (shroud side) of the pedestal and ran studs back there with beefy washers under the nuts, then went to bolts on the bumper side of the mount.  That way I can pull the two bolts and slide everything right out.

Try to keep the slots tight-ish to the back studs to keep the fan straight.

Wow! A mess but could have been worse.

Holy CARP!  That was quite an explosion. 

Mike: my heart sank when I saw your first posts about this. All that work! You deserve better luck!

Thank you for posting all this here though. As others have said already, most of us have only ever heard rumors of Type 1 fans exploding, and never seen any direct evidence. It's really helpful to read your detailed description (5600 RPM! Not "over 5,000," or "5500" or "5700") and well-composed photos. 

Here's hoping it's but a minor bump on the road to smooth and twisty pavement.

mppickett posted:

 

 

And this is the best part about living in Hawaii, never having to wear shoes!  

But, I am sorry about your fan issues.

Jan Peter Stahl posted:

& you should invest some money in a smaller pulley to reduce the fan speed. The original 175mm is way too big for 5000 revs.

usually for more than 4000 you need a smaller one, I would go at least to a 146mm.

and don't worry about the cooling this will not be affected or even better because the stock fan can't handle the high revs anyway.

And check the alternator before you reassemble, usualy after a fan crash it's not in line anymore and ready for the trashcan

I just can say it again also if nobody replied to my post.

with more than 5000 rpms a smaller pulley for the engine builder here in germany is absolut standard to prevent such fan crashes.

Best

For those that have never looked at the cooling fan closely and don't know why it would come apart- the first pic is of a stock type 1 fan. You can see the ends of the blades have little tabs that are bent over but not welded- that physical contact is all that's holding the assembly together. Before you start thinking "kind of shaky", remember that stock fans never come apart in stock engines. As you increase the rpm's the stress factor either doubles or quadruples (I can't remember which) so you can see how spinning it faster would do it in. The design, although perfectly adequate for a stock engine (maximum rpm 4500) just doesn't hold together at 6 and 7,000 (and apparently even 5600) rpm's. Also remember that with stock pulleys the fan is spinning at 1.8 or 2 times faster than the engine- at the redline of a modified engine that's pretty fast! Note that the center is worn- probably not torqued to spec?                                                                                                      

This is a tig welded fan- if not already, it will need to be balanced because of the added material. It will not come apart. It's also brand new- no rust and the center is in pristine condition.                                                 

I think I mentioned it in a post above- I've heard of the tabs being tig'd without using any filler rod (just melting the tabs to the outer shell) so there's no weight increase (I do like that!) and more importantly, the balance shouldn't change.

This is how  a fan is tig welded, it's functional.

OK, Gene Berg welded/balanced fan ordered.  EMPI power pulley, shorter belts, alternator base, alternator (US made), backing plates, shims, spacers, hub kit, woodruff keys, and doghouse shroud ordered. I can reuse the cylinder tins with a little bending. 

I appreciate all of the sympathy sent my way, really. But the kind of person I am, it just seems like an opportunity to make the engine just a little better than before. I'm retired and my granddaughter likes to keep me company while I wrench on things. No worries!

Mike

Bam.

When life gives you lemons, make limoncello.

Yep, and unlike whining, limoncelo can make you feel better. However, there have been times when I was down so long it looked like up to me :-)

mppickett posted:

 

...there have been times when I was down so long it looked like up to me...

 Yeah, I hate wiring under the dash, too.

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

mppickett posted:

 

...there have been times when I was down so long it looked like up to me...

 Yeah, I hate wiring under the dash, too.

 

Just take the seats out, Mitch. Then it's really not bad at all.

Fun with Graphs: Here's a 7 second snapshot of the datalog during which the fan shuffled off it's mortal fins.  I was at full throttle (the white MAP line) at 3777 RPM (the red line on the graph) and the air/fuel ratio was tracking nicely downwards (green line). In the lower graph you can see that the oil temp was steady at 179 F and the spark advance was tracking the RPMs and engine load.

As I was slightly coming off the throttle near the vertical blue line (just the cursor in MegaLogViewer), the RPM continued on up to 5613 RPM resulting in the BANG. You may observe by the white MAP (throttle) line that at that moment I jerked my throttle foot up to my chest and wee'd just a tiny bit, in the most manly way possible under the circumstances. 

40 seconds later I had coasted up the hill, took 2 right turns and coasted to a stop under a big shade tree where I had a very pleasant conversation with a Hagerty agent about the big flatbed tow truck that I needed. It could have been a lot worse.

I learned that the hard redline setting didn't have the effect that it had on my old 911. The Speeduino computer was trying to starve the engine of fuel by cutting the injector times. Duh, I've got carbs. I've since changed the configuration to drop the timing advance to 0* BTDC when it's 1000 RPM before redline. I'm pretty sure I'll feel it and get the hint next time.

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

mppickett posted:

 

...there have been times when I was down so long it looked like up to me...

 Yeah, I hate wiring under the dash, too.

 I've wired dozens of Speedsters.... For big wiring jobs :  Step 1)  Pull the seats & Steering wheel  2)  Pillow, old blanket and a good LED light that will stay where you need it to be. 3)  Wife assists by sitting next to the car knowing what the different wire terminals are and what tools you need.  4) This will at a minimum will require a quality dining experience.

Mike-

With a power pulley and welded/balanced fan, you're good past 7000 RPM _{(at least that's what I tell myself).}

Rods and valvetrain? You're on your own, man.

Mike, on Megajolt they have a spark cut board available. My limiter does the same thing with the advance, pulling it back to zero 100 rpm before the limit. Then at the limit it cuts the spark.

Or, you could always go old-school:

Alan Merklin posted:

This is how  a fan is tig welded, it's functional.

Was there something wrong with the one I posted a pic of?

DannyP posted:

Mike, on Megajolt they have a spark cut board available. My limiter does the same thing with the advance, pulling it back to zero 100 rpm before the limit. Then at the limit it cuts the spark.

Thanks, @DannyP.  Are you using TunerStudio on your Megajolt? If so, cutting the spark is probably an option for me, too.

Mike

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Or, you could always go old-school:

 

 

We don't need no stinkin' rotors! Nice product, anyway, thanks! 

I ditched the distributor to make room for the AC. A little Speeduino box, Bosch coil pack and a CB Performance crank position sensor took its place. I just have to pay attention to how I configured it.

Mike

@Sacto Mitch I guess that would require a distributor. We don't need no stinkin' distributors!

Mike, I'm running Megajolt software on my Windows 10 2-in-1.

ALB posted:

Alan Merklin posted:

This is how  a fan is tig welded, it's functional.

Was there something wrong with the one I posted a pic of?

@ALB, your welds were too pretty to hide inside of the shroud. Seems like I should be quoting the Bible with something like hiding lights and bushels or something.

mppickett posted:

 

...We don't need no stinkin' rotors!...

...I ditched the distributor ...

...A little Speeduino box...

...Bosch coil pack...

...CB Performance crank position sensor...

You'll shoot your eye out !

ALB posted:

Alan Merklin posted:

This is how  a fan is tig welded, it's functional.

Was there something wrong with the one I posted a pic of?

His is welded on every other tab, rather than hitting every one. I believe he was saying this is adequate, and it might be.

I'd rather not test it out to see. Mine are like yours.

Just so everyone knows- I don't weld. That pic (typically of me) was stolen off the internet.

Stan Galat posted:

Mike-

With a power pulley and welded/balanced fan, you're good past 7000 RPM _{(at least that's what I tell myself).}

Rods and valvetrain? You're on your own, man.

Stan, Inside I've already got a balanced set of SCAT rods, balanced pistons, counter weighted 69mm crank. I looked into ordering HD valve springs and the tool to install and decided I was putting lipstick on an 043 pig.  Instead I went ahead and ordered a set of Panchitto 044 double valve spring heads. I'll still plan to stay under 6000, but won't worry as much about hearing additional bangs.

Mike

mppickett posted:

Stan Galat posted:

Mike-

With a power pulley and welded/balanced fan, you're good past 7000 RPM _{(at least that's what I tell myself).}

Rods and valvetrain? You're on your own, man.

Stan, Inside I've already got a balanced set of SCAT rods, balanced pistons, counter weighted 69mm crank. I looked into ordering HD valve springs and the tool to install and decided I was putting lipstick on an 043 pig.  Instead I went ahead and ordered a set of Panchitto 044 double valve spring heads. I'll still plan to stay under 6000, but won't worry as much about hearing additional bangs.

Mike

Atta' boy, Mike!

mppickett posted:

Stan Galat posted:

Mike-

With a power pulley and welded/balanced fan, you're good past 7000 RPM _{(at least that's what I tell myself).}

Rods and valvetrain? You're on your own, man.

Stan, Inside I've already got a balanced set of SCAT rods, balanced pistons, counter weighted 69mm crank. I looked into ordering HD valve springs and the tool to install and decided I was putting lipstick on an 043 pig.  Instead I went ahead and ordered a set of Panchitto 044 double valve spring heads. I'll still plan to stay under 6000, but won't worry as much about hearing additional bangs.

Mike

An engine that small will never make any where near full use of the potential of those heads- call CB Perf. back, order a 78mm crank and tell them you need 57 cc combustion chambers (8.8:1, .045" deck)...   Your welcome.

@ALB and other gearheads, I need another review of my specs. Boy, they have changed since I started (although I'm still in the modest HP range). Still just looking for a reliable, non-exploding, responsive car for cruising - not going to be racing anybody (except to the last piece of pizza). Thanks! Mike

- 1776 cc engine: 90.5mm, stroke 69mm, piston deck clearance 1.5mm - compression ratio 8.25
- Dual relief case AJ-144762 - Hoover oiling mods
- Full flow oil pump (30 mm ) w/ external oil filter

- Panchitto 044 double valve spring heads, chamber 52cc
- 1.1:1 stock rockers Hoover modified oil passages w/CBP swivel feet
- Cromoly pushrods
- Hardened lifters
- Berg heavy duty grooved rocker shaft
- Engle W110 camshaft .392" cam lift, .430" valve lift (1.1 Rockers), 284* duration & 247* duration at .050", on 108 lobe center

- 69 mm counter weighted crankshaft
- SCAT 3/8 5.40" balanced connecting rods with ARP 8740 bolts
- Balanced Mahle 90.5 pistons and wrist pins

- Dual 40mm Kadrons: 28 venturi, 130 mains, 50 idle (at sea level)
- Ported EMPI intake manifolds (opened up to 1" from bottom)
- Carter P60430 rotary fuel pump
- Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regulator modified for 1.75 psi

- Bosch high output wasted spark ignition module 032905106F
- CB Performance 36-1 missing tooth wheel and Hall effect crank position sensor
- Speeduino ECU spark controller
- NGK BKR5EIX-11 IX iridium spark plugs .044" gap

- EMPI US made 90 amp alternator 9458-7
- EMPI 4099 13 lb chromoly flywheel
- EMPI 1700 lb model 4080 stage 1 200 mm pressure plate
- 5-3/4" Power pulley

- Vintage Speed Taiwan 1.5" stainless sport exhaust system - 155-204-05200 - good up to 125 hp

- Rancho Pro Street IRS Transmission# DC0257471 - 4.125 final gear ratio

What I think- you could safely raise the compression ½ point for that cam. The W110 (or any cam with 245-250° @ 0.050") does well with 8½- 9:1 with dual carburetors and a freer flowing exhaust. Keep the deck closer to .040- .045" so no fuel is igniting on the quench pads and with 50 cc chambers (sharp edges rounded) it will run fine. Instead of chromoly pushrods, hd aluminum are lighter and easier on the valve springs. As I said before, more displacement would work really well here, giving more power (especially in the bottom end/lower midrange) but if that's not on the table I get it. If you're buying a new alternator- is there a reason you're going for the 90 amp unit?

And can you post a pic of the insides of the intake manifolds? We spoke before of taking most of the dividing wall out inside for better idle/off idle performance. Thanks! Al 

Nice combo Mike. You'll love it.

I'll take the pizza...

ALB posted:

What I think- you could safely raise the compression ½ point for that cam. new alternator- is there a reason you're going for the 90 amp unit? And can you post a pic of the insides of the intake manifolds? We spoke before of taking most of the dividing wall out inside for better idle/off idle performance. Thanks! Al 

Thanks, Al. I put in a change order to raise the compression to 8.5/1.

I went for the 90 amp alternator because:

- My ignition switch is wired so all of the lights are on when the engine is running

- I've got a large fans on both the condenser and evaporator sides of the AC

- I've got a pretty big fan on the oil cooler

- I might want to run the house power off of the speedster if a typhoon hits :-)

Yep, I removed the dividing wall on both intake manifolds leaving about 1" at the bottom to smoothly divide the charge into the head ports. Idle is pretty good, but I haven't pulled plugs to see if it evened up the fuel mixture between the cylinders, yet.  Here are a couple of pics, one focused on the top and one on the bottom.

Just curious.......

Does your wife now believe that the madness has consumed you or did that already happen before you found this group?   

Gordon Nichols posted:

Just curious.......

Does your wife now believe that the madness has consumed you or did that already happen before you found this group?   

She's had fair warning about my madness since the our first date when she was 15 years old and I picked her up in my $19.95 1958 DKW Woody Universal Kombi with its 2 cycle, 3 cylinder engine with suicide doors and 4 speed on the column (she could scoot over on the bench seats!). That was about 51 years ago... I don't think I'm surprising her much anymore. 

My DKW Woody (originally baby-crap yellow, rattle can painted in a rat rod motif)

A restored Deke Woody

Not that anyone remembers anymore, but DKW is represented as one of the Auto Union rings that grace every Audi. The other rings represented Wanderer and Horch. 

I guess you remembered and wondered all the way to those islands eh

IaM-Ray posted:

I guess you remembered and wondered all the way to those islands eh

 

That was just one of my crazy ideas that she's humored all of these years.

I would make the deck height NO MORE than .040". With today's ethanol blended fuel and modern head design(Panchito) and a decent ignition system(check marked on that with Speeduino) you should be able to support 9:1, or at least 8.8. 

Honestly, you can get the deck really low, down to .028" with a forged crank and rods and pistons. But .040" is low enough to squish the mixture without getting the parts in danger.

With those CB heads with their nice squish combustion chamber and the precisely acurate ignition, it's a no-brainer.

For those of you interested in what a Gene Berg welded-balanced fan looks like these days. Painted an industrial green except where material was removed for balancing, I assume.

The stamp says PRUMSA

Shiney edges where material removed

Nice. That looks like industrial paint for sure, ewwww is the color name!

Mrs. Berg must have been able to score a bucket left over from an elementary school cafeteria. See, that goes with ewwww, too.

@ALB concerning the opening up of the EMPI Kadron manifolds and the impact on fuel mixture, I pulled the plugs. Here are some pics - this is after idling about 30-40 seconds after a strong pull to 5600 RPMs.

Parts are trickling in. I nearly have everything to replace the fan-damaged parts and to beef up the tolerance for RPMs over 5K. CB Performance will be setting up the Panchitos for 50 cc chambers before they ship. They're running with reduced staffing to allow for increased distancing between employees. 

While I wait in line, I pulled the old heads and checked the deck and it turned out to be .040" as it should have been. With 1776 cc and 50 cc chambers, I should end up with 8.9 compression. I verified that with Marieanne at CBP and she says that's in the sweet spot for the heads. 

I finally received the replacement alternator. I ordered the normal finished 90 amp U.S. reworked EMPI. It was hard to find, but the other option was chrome.  I got a good price, and it arrived yesterday, in chrome. I guess I'm going to like chrome 🙂

Chrome is good.  Kind of has that "Seduction" look going, you know?

Looks way prettier than my ugly old thang......

It starts with chrome, then diamond tuck, then Russian symbols and piles of money in the frunk. Be careful.

@Robert M- you forgot the ultimate hotrod/muscle car faux pas- crushed velvet! 

ALB posted:

@Robert M- you forgot the ultimate hotrod/muscle car faux pas- crushed velvet! 

Yes I did. My apologies. Chrome really is gateway bling. Doesn’t seem to stop after that. Lol

Next, we’re gonna see a string of Hawaiian Kukui beads hanging from his windshield.   

Gordon Nichols posted:

Next, we’re gonna see a string of Hawaiian Kukui beads hanging from his windshield.   

No Kukui beads for me. They might clash with my dashboard Hawaiian hula girl!

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll cancel the order for the purple crushed velvet, although it was really dreamy. Since I altered the compression specs from my earlier plans, based on your feedback, here's the latest configuration.

- 1776 cc engine: 90.5mm, stroke 69mm, piston deck clearance .040" - compression ratio 8.9
- Dual relief case AJ-144762 - Hoover oiling mods
- Full flow oil pump (30 mm ) w/ external oil filter

- Panchito 044 double valve spring heads, chamber 50cc
- 1.1:1 stock rockers Hoover modified oil passages w/CBP swivel feet
- Cromoly pushrods
- Hardened lifters
- Berg heavy duty grooved rocker shaft
- Engle W110 camshaft .392" cam lift, .430" valve lift (1.1 Rockers), 284* duration & 247* duration at .050", on 108 lobe center

- 69 mm counter weighted crankshaft
- SCAT 3/8 5.40" balanced connecting rods with ARP 8740 bolts
- Balanced Mahle 90.5 pistons and wrist pins

- Berg welded cooling fan

- Dual 40mm Kadrons: 28 venturi, 130 mains, 50 idle (at sea level)
- Ported EMPI intake manifolds (opened up to 1" from bottom)
- Carter P60430 rotary fuel pump
- Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regulator modified for 1.75 psi

- Bosch high output wasted spark ignition module 032905106F
- CB Performance 36-1 missing tooth wheel and Hall effect crank position sensor
- Speeduino ECU spark controller
- NGK BKR5EIX-11 IX iridium spark plugs .044" gap

- EMPI US made Chrome 90 amp alternator
- EMPI 4099 13 lb chromoly flywheel
- EMPI 1700 lb model 4080 stage 1 200 mm pressure plate
- 5-3/4" Power pulley

- Vintage Speed Taiwan 1.5" stainless sport exhaust system - 155-204-05200 

- Rancho Pro Street IRS Transmission# DC0257471 - 4.125 final gear ratio

- Cromoly spring mounted Hawaiian hula girl dashboard doll

Mike

That Hawiian girl must be worth an extra 5 horses at least.  I'm done with carbs, so I'm relying  on fuel injection and this:

JMM (Michael) posted:

That Hawiian girl must be worth an extra 5 horses at least.  I'm done with carbs, so I'm relying  on fuel injection and this:

Ommmm. How did you approach the fuel injection?

Ah, well, I'm going Suby with a stand alone engine management system.  When I look at that lovely engine spec you have I keep thinking I'd do Dellorto's.  Also, when applied to electronic fuel injection, the Budha says, "Ohmmmm"

JMM (Michael) posted:

Ah, well, I'm going Suby with a stand alone engine management system.  When I look at that lovely engine spec you have I keep thinking I'd do Dellorto's.  Also, when applied to electronic fuel injection, the Budha says, "Ohmmmm"

Yep, either high Ohmmms or low Ohmmms. I've been really tempted by the Dellortos, but I've also got some motorcycle throttle bodies and injectors lying around and they're spaced to fit IDF manifolds. The Kadrons will hold me until I decide.  

mppickett posted

Yep, either high Ohmmms or low Ohmmms. I've been really tempted by the Dellortos, but I've also got some motorcycle throttle bodies and injectors lying around and they're spaced to fit IDF manifolds. The Kadrons will hold me until I decide.  

Oh,  I like the throttle bodies idea!  It would sound ripping' good, too.  

Yeah, top down, intake noise with ITB or single throat carbs can sound like heaven. Top up? Could be(will be) a headache......

DannyP posted:

Yeah, top down, intake noise with ITB or single throat carbs can sound like heaven. Top up? Could be(will be) a headache......

^ truth.

I believe it was Ross Perot who dubbed it "the giant sucking sound."

Slowly making progress on the top end as parts arrive. I measured the crank pulley that came on the engine and it was a 7 incher. Shouldn't have made the fan grenade, but I'm sure it didn't help. Just curious, are any of you running a power pulley and if so, have you measured the impact on cylinder head temps? I know some folks (looking at you, @Stan Galat) monitor all of the cylinders :-)

Got my fancy chrome 90 amp alt and welded fan mounted. Built a new coil pack mount that is just a tad simpler and I think better looking because, waiting on parts...

Mike

Man that picture is shiny

All the parts are here including the Panchitos (thanks, Marieanne!). Went through the heads this morning smoothing out sharp edges and burrs. Just got the heads torqued and Scat spring loaded pushrod tubes installed. I did notice that the spark plugs holes were smaller in diameter (10mm?) than the 14mm plugs in the 043 heads. 

But, so far, so good. I'll start on the valve train tomorrow.

Mike

They need 12 mm, long reach. I'd start with NGK D7EA plugs. Keep in mind that with NGK, higher numbers are colder.

Good luck, Mike.

Stan Galat posted:

They need 12 mm, long reach. I'd start with NGK D7EA plugs. Keep in mind that with NGK, higher numbers are colder.

Good luck, Mike.

Thanks, Stan!

I think I found Stan's side business ~   https://www.facebook.com/count...bw&__tn__=EEHH-R

Stan is on the right track, I run DP8-EA9 plugs.

Do a google search for images, I see that one is basically unreadable.

DannyP posted:

Stan is on the right track, I run DP8-EA9 plugs.

Thanks, @DannyP. Just curious if you are re-gapping them wider than .035" since you've got a hot ignition?

Mike

I don't think I would, unless you're running 12:1 CR.

I'm running a Bosch wasted spark coil pack intended for a 2000 era VW 2.0L engine. The factory plug was a BKUR6ET-10 (.040 gap) and that engine had 10.5 compression. Thus the question. Don't get me started on how wasted spark systems wear plug gaps differently depending on coil bank (most use multi-ground electrodes to even the wear).

mppickett posted:

I'm running a Bosch wasted spark coil pack intended for a 2000 era VW 2.0L engine. The factory plug was a BKUR6ET-10 (.040 gap) and that engine had 10.5 compression. Thus the question. Don't get me started on how wasted spark systems wear plug gaps differently depending on coil bank (most use multi-ground electrodes to even the wear).

Yep. When the car makers figured out how to make chambers that didn't invite pre-ignition, they needed to figure out how to light the fire under those kind of pressures. Once they figured that out,  they needed to make plugs that wouldn't burn in half every 20,000 mi.

After they figured that out, we got to a 100,000 mi tuneup interval, meaning that Trixie the Hair Artist could drive her Honda indefinitely without doing anything but fueling it up.

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

Stan Galat posted:

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

I thought they had that figured out with timing CHAINS. Then they went to belts. I'm sure the belts offer some kind of plus somewhere, other than the pocket books of the dealerships.

Carlos G posted:

Stan Galat posted:

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

I thought they had that figured out with timing CHAINS. Then they went to belts. I'm sure the belts offer some kind of plus somewhere, other than the pocket books of the dealerships.

But IMHO, the sound of the timing chains and all of those little valve train parts is what makes the 911 air cooled engines so cool. It just sounds so busy and purposeful!

Carlos G posted:

Stan Galat posted:

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

I thought they had that figured out with timing CHAINS. Then they went to belts. I'm sure the belts offer some kind of plus somewhere, other than the pocket books of the dealerships.

The chains were less than awesome back in the day. When cars began moving to OHC engines the small problems with short chains became big problems with really long chains. Belts were meant to be a way this could be easily remedied, with a reasonably easy to access normal wear item.

That went out the window pretty early on. 

Ok, with the input of Stan and Danny, I've ordered some NGK DPR7EA-9 plugs. Thanks for the help. 

Mike

A belt is much easier to replace than a VR6 chain. 

I’ve replaced both - they’re both pretty much the same amount of work.

Gordon Nichols posted:

I’ve replaced both - they’re both pretty much the same amount of work.

(In your Mother's voice) "And don't forget to change your water pump!"

mppickett posted:

DannyP posted:

Stan is on the right track, I run DP8-EA9 plugs.

Thanks, @DannyP. Just curious if you are re-gapping them wider than .035" since you've got a hot ignition?

Mike

Yes, I run .040 or more. I'll have to look it up. Whatever a 1992 Ford Escort gap is, since that's the coil pack/ignition I'm using. I think it's .044. And I'm running 10.2:1 static compression.

Stan Galat posted:

Carlos G posted:

Stan Galat posted:

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

I thought they had that figured out with timing CHAINS. Then they went to belts. I'm sure the belts offer some kind of plus somewhere, other than the pocket books of the dealerships.

The chains were less than awesome back in the day. When cars began moving to OHC engines the small problems with short chains became big problems with really long chains. Belts were meant to be a way this could be easily remedied, with a reasonably easy to access normal wear item.

That went out the window pretty early on. 

I'm betting that a timing belt/idler pulley arrangement is cheaper than chains and ramps and hydraulic tensioners. Follow the money......

DannyP posted:

mppickett posted:

DannyP posted:

Yes, I run .040 or more. I'll have to look it up. Whatever a 1992 Ford Escort gap is, since that's the coil pack/ignition I'm using. I think it's .044. And I'm running 10.2:1 static compression.

No problem. I'll just gap them for .040. I was running .044 on the Mexican heads before the dang fan go (went). Since the spec is .040 that will probably be just fine.

By the way, I ran an EDIS back in my Megasquirt days. Nice coil pack.

Thanks!

DannyP posted:

Stan Galat posted:

Carlos G posted:

Stan Galat posted:

If only they could figure out timing belts, a modern car might run forever. 

I thought they had that figured out with timing CHAINS. Then they went to belts. I'm sure the belts offer some kind of plus somewhere, other than the pocket books of the dealerships.

The chains were less than awesome back in the day. When cars began moving to OHC engines the small problems with short chains became big problems with really long chains. Belts were meant to be a way this could be easily remedied, with a reasonably easy to access normal wear item.

That went out the window pretty early on. 

I'm betting that a timing belt/idler pulley arrangement is cheaper than chains and ramps and hydraulic tensioners. Follow the money......

Guys! WTF? I thought this was an Old Porsche Appreciation site. Everyone knows the hot valve actuation setup is shafts and bevel gears!

Ed, have you priced a real or replica 4-cam recently? I'm sticking with my original statement: Follow the money.

Aha, swivel feet mean you have to grind the adjusting screw face side of the rocker to gain back some room to back the screw out. But, all of you know this already. Got the geometry correct yesterday. Guess what I'm going to be doing today 

Check out this guys method for swivel foot clearance.  This is how I would do it. Pretty slick.