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Hello all,

I am in the market for a Speedster, and there are a lot of different opinions on which company makes the "best" one, but I'm looking to buy mine second-hand. My expectation is that I will use it as a daily driver - although I love sports cars and have had many, I nonetheless have a practical streak in me that just won't allow me to even consider buying a car - any car - that I don't plan to put 100,000 miles on.

This brings me to a difficult problem. Almost every Speedster I've seen advertised is a low mileage vehicle that has been seldom driven. But I plan to put many miles on mine.

The question is: How can I tell which ones will hold together the best after 100,000 miles? I'd LOVE to see pics of ones that have 100k plus on them, because let's face it, any just put together car is going to look great, right?

The other question I have is this: there are DOZENS of Speedster manufacturers that have gone out of business and had their moulds acquired by others. Are these cars so close that if you need a door panel or something, one from manufacturer A will fit one from manufacturer B? If not, how do you get comfort with owning a car made by a manufacturer that may go out of business (should the 2008 financial crisis repeat, for example)?

THANK YOU!

d

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IL?  Do you drive a motorcycle now as daily driver?  A 40 year old air cooled VW engine with side curtains and convertible top is going to be rough in winters (cold and damp).  In temperate state - entirely possible.  MUSBJIM in CA used his a daily driver and other SOCers put 10's of thousand miles on their Speedsters.  Now --- you can get a Speedster replica with rollup windows and even a modern EFI Subaru engine (not a difficult transplant).  Some early IMs and CMCs came with rollup windows.  I drove a '57 VW (canvas sun roof) to college in NJ years ago - I survived but was never hot in winter.

The car is fiberglass so it doesn't rust.  Floor pans can but you can PO-15 or Rustoelum paint them.  Maintenance parts are VW - so cheap andd easy to come by.  A damaged fiberglass fender can be pieced back together - save the hunks.  Early IMs, FF and CMCs were all from the same molds so parts are interchangeable - the molds are still out there.  The bodies were thick fibergass and subframes substantial.  NO safety side beams or air bags though. In my experience VW engines needed top end valve work at 40-50k or so.  

Ha - FF/CMC had at least 6 names before they went belly up in '92 and again as Street Beasts in 96(?).  Many bodies (VS/JPS) are sourced from Mexico - both are VW pan based.  Beck is near you so well worth looking at.

They are just not up to the task of a daily grind.  They are pretty loud, not water tight, very small, scary to drive in heavy truck traffic.  Most are also lacking in creature comforts of modern cars.  IM's are the Cadillac or Lexus of replica 356 world and I would still not count that as a daily driver(especially in the Midwest).  Where are you in IL? 

thank you, everyone, for your comments - keep 'em coming, as I'm trying to fully explore these possibilities. I live in Geneva, a little ways outside of Chicago.

Maybe a coupe would be a better do? I like the look of each, for different reasons. Whatever I get will be Subie powered, just because those motors are so darn good...

I drive my '08 Boxster daily, and that thing is a TOTAL CHAMP. It feels more stable than my Honda Accord when the roads are crappy. I realize it's a modern car, though, through and through, and so the experience is going to be different from a modern antique.

So on to the longevity issue - what is your best advice on that?

@dkennemo perhaps those with Convertible D’s can speak up, as its my impression those will be best served for a daily driver in the Midwest. 

I’m 6’-0”, and driving with the top up sucks, IMO. Headroom isn’t the problem. Visibility is the issue. I need to duck down to look out the side windows. I own a VS, and you can park a semi truck in my blind spot (top up). 

Then there’s the infamous heat. I have a 1915 VW engine. On a cold day (below 55 degrees-I’m in CA) not much heat blows out from my car. Now your engine choice and heat options will change this.  

And, as you touched on, the tops are “emergency tops”, essentially created to keep you from getting soaked, but not to keep the car water tight. 

I believe the Convertible D’s will get you water tight and have roll up windows as opposed to the Speedsters canvas/plastic windows. 

Im guessing you see a lot of low mileage Speedsters for sale because the novelty simply wore off those owners. The idea of owning a speedster was greater than actually owning and experiencing one. You’ll find just about everyone on here has the disease. We love our Speedsters, however impractical they are. And look forward to driving them, and dumping tons of cash into them (cash we most likely will never see if we decide to sell).  

Good luck. Test drive a few. Visit Special Edition. And feel free to ask a ton of questions here. 

 

-Kevin

They’re not weathertite, no good in the snow, cold in the winter, too hot when it hits 90, can’t be secured, if air-cooled, have carbs which are temperamental, 1930’s technology, some great parts, and some not so great parts, and not very safe.

They are fun toys that are great when the sun is shining and everything is working great, but they will strain your wallet and your patience.

If you want a great toy and to be a part of an even greater community, by all means, welcome to the madness. That’s our welcome and on our club badge for a reason.

If you would buy a vintage motor cycle and ride it in all kinds of weather and work on it yourself, you’ll fit right in.


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Tom Blankinship posted:
They’re not weathertite, no good in the snow, cold in the winter, too hot when it hits 90, can’t be secured, if air-cooled, have carbs which are temperamental, 1930’s technology, some great parts, and some not so great parts, and not very safe.

They are fun toys that are great when the sun is shining and everything is working great, but they will strain your wallet and your patience.

If you want a great toy and to be a part of an even greater community, by all means, welcome to the madness. That’s our welcome and on our club badge for a reason.

If you would buy a vintage motor cycle and ride it in all kinds of weather and work on it yourself, you’ll fit right in.


>
>

Tom, it's worse that you think. Up until I bought my Boxster, I owned mainly English cars.

Last edited by dkennemo

Coupes are rare - only made for like 6 years in low numbers by JPS.  So used they are $35+k for VW powered and $40+k for subbie.  Used SAS are out there - "many" (ok maybe only 30 built???) are windup window Conv Ds and coupes - with Subaru engines.  Don't even think of ordering a new SAS.  Also don't hesitate with an Envenmo - build in Brazil years ago ---  only 4k made.  Beck is starting to make coupes now - you might see one on their build floor!

@dkennemo I have a suby powered Beck and live in Batavia, Marty has a turbo suby IM and is in West Chicago. His in in storage for the winter and mine is up on my lift. I put it away end of October and don’t see it coming down until mid April or early May. I’m out of town this week but more than willing to sit down for coffee, or a beer to let you know what I have learned over my 5 plus years of ownership. This forum has been a huge help and is a wealth of knowledge. 

I have an IM roadster conv D and there is no issue in most rain showers ... a few drips but major downpours, the wipers might not keep up and there is no way in Snow covered roads for it to be a daily driver.  I have been caught in snow but not recommended. 

As far as heat and defrost mine works fairly well as well. 

Not a daily driver in my books, but no visibility issues like speedsters with side curtains. 

I'm just 10-15 min from you and so is Joe Fortino.  I have a  I have 2012 Subaru Turbo  convertible D  power windows and heated seats,  good heat and air.   It runs  fine through crappy rainy weather, but it's not fun in that stuff.  Joe has Subaru speedster by Beck (an awesome car) but it  had side curtains.   Like others said Beck is creating a Coupe  and Indiana is so close to us.    There's also a new member with a vintage Speedster  in St. Charles.    With three different manufactures cars so close to you,  you may want to wait until spring to check out all of them.   We could probably arrange an impromptu get together.  

Last edited by Marty Grzynkowicz

@dkennemo,

I've owned three of these, dating back to 2000. I live in the Peoria area. I own an IM speedster with rollup windows. I'm not sure what Wofgang was talking about with his "some older IM and CMC" cars having rollup windows, but every Intermeccanica (speedster or "D") built in Vancouver (1984 or so) has rollup windows.

Regardless, there is no possibility of this being a daily driver anywhere besides Florida, deep south Texas, AZ (not Flagstaff), or SoCal. The reasons are too many to mention, but it's just not going to work. Really. Coupe, speedster, "D", whatever. It's not that kind of vehicle.

 

D, Stan is a lot smarter than I am.

He said this, and let it rest:

"...there is no possibility of this being a daily driver anywhere besides Florida, deep south Texas, AZ (not Flagstaff), or SoCal. The reasons are too many to mention..."

Stan went back to eating dinner, and figured you'd discover the reasons after nosing around this site for a while and maybe after driving a Speedster or two.

It's really a question of how much suffering and humiliation you're willing to endure.

Almost every one of those shiny, new-looking, low-mileage cars you see for sale on Craigslist represents a wife who said, "It's either me or that damned car of yours." The cars are just so cool looking that countless minions have been drawn to them like lemmings, unaware of the cliff that lies ahead.

Most of us on this site are delusional to one degree or another. We've long ago convinced ourselves that owning a Speedster is a rational kind of thing to do. But we've also learned when and where to drive them. On the right road, in the right weather, under the right traffic conditions, there's not much that's more fun to drive. But no one I know has a Speedster as their only car.

Thing is, it's not really a 'car' at all, as that term is defined in the early years of the 21st century. It was barely a car in 1955, when it was first designed. And we've, well, moved on since then.

The $80,000 Speedster (or Roadster) replica is a lot more comfortable and somewhat more practical than the $30,000 Speedster replica, but neither is anywhere close to as practical for a daily driver as the $18,000 Toyota Corolla.

Stick around here a while, learn to endure rants like this, find some Speedsters to drive, and you'll come to understand what we're saying.

But please, don't buy one until you do.

 

@Marty Grzynkowicz may have provided you the best course of action. Wait a bit and go for a ride in each of the manufacturer Speedsters / Roadsters in your area. That will be able to give you a first hand idea of each car. In the interim, research as much as you can. 

It’s very difficult giving advice as we don’t know the precipice to your comfort level and/or mechanical knowledge; as everyone’s differs.  Or even your budget. There’s a considerable difference in price from a VS or JPS (low end) to an Intermeccanica (high end).  

I had once thought about a speedster as a daily driver when I lived in SF. I’m so happy I didn’t. I would have sold the car after a few weeks. It’s all the intangibles I didn’t think about. San Francisco’s streets are bad. Pot holes are big enough to swallow the car. They are always tearing up the streets and laying steel plates over the holes. Then there’s the other drivers. The Speedster is a very low car. People are too busy texting while they are driving and don’t see you. I wouldn’t trust having it parallel parked on the streets. People don’t pay attention and will easily back into your car. That and my commute now has me sitting in traffic up to 2.5 hours each way each day-not particularly fun in a manual 4-speed air cooled car.

Essentially I think of my Speedster as a go kart with fairings. I love it, but understand it’s limitations. I bought it as a fun toy car, and it hasn’t disappointed my expectations.  What it has delivered is countless smiles; from me, my passengers and those on the streets and sidewalks. I look forward to the opportunities to drive it. For me it’s when it’s not raining and between 55 degrees and 90 degrees. 

As an aside, I’m still a newbie-having only owned my Speedster for 10 months and putting 3500 miles on it (I bought it with 2,000mi). 

Last edited by Kevin - Bay Area

D - I have an 11 year old Beck with over 50k miles on it and have driven it in all kinds of weather except for frozen precip, including 10 round trips between Charleston, SC and Carlisle, PA, so I know of what I speak.  I love it, and don't mind the hassles (to a point), but wouldn't consider it a daily driver.  It leaks when it rains hard, has little/no heat, is hot in the summer, the carbs need occasional tweaking, etc.  Some of this would be solved with a Subaru engine, including, possibly, the lack of A/C, but the side windows leak.   Even the IMs with roll-up windows leak sometimes. If you have a commute on fun back roads you might enjoy it regardless, but it you sit in traffic, not so much.  I am supposed to get one of the first Beck Coupes, and that might make it as a daily, but you won't be able to get one second hand for years.  These are great fun and will introduce you to some of the best folks on the planet, but see them for what they are - an adult toy (watch it, guys;-).  I'd recommend keeping the Boxster for daily duties and getting a used Speedster for weekend fun.

Either way, go visit Special Edition in Bremen and plan on joining us in Carlisle.  The education alone will be worth it, and the fun you'll have will set the hook.

Let's say you're a car guy, and you'd like something different, beautiful, and fun. You see a speedster on the street corner or a picture of one sitting resplendent on the lawn at Amelia Island or Pebble Beach. You remember seeing shots of James Dean or Steve McQueen, aviators and unlit Luck Strikes, and some babe on their arms. The whole thing strikes you as perfect.

You're aware that 60 years have passed since these cars were new, but the idea that you are a smart guy (a car-guy!) and enough time has passed that technology should have caught up with a replica, which has the advantage of being able to incorporate new and better technology. The available used cars are all air-cooled-- but the thinking goes, "it really is a simple car, I'm sure with quality parts it could be at least as reliable as my riding lawn-mower". You figure you'll do a Subaru conversion as soon as it's feasible.

You hear that some guys (ahem) have driven their car from the heartland to one coast or another, and lived to tell the tale. You read about a guy from SoCal who uses his car for a daily driver and has had two with 130K mi between them. You see cars with less than 1000 mi. all over the internet advertised for $.75 on the dollar, and you think, "That guy was a pansy. A man like me would keep that thing and make it usable."

Guys tell you you'll never use a replica as a daily driver and it's easy to think they just aren't as smart, or persistent, or manly as you are. You read the questions some guys are asking, and you grow to suspect that everybody who's ever owned one of these is a lawyer or accountant that didn't know how to work on anything. You're not that guy, and as such you discard any advice they have for you.

Summer comes, and you find a Vintage Speedster on Craig's List or Auto-Trader selling for <$20K, and jump on it. You think about flying out to wherever and driving the car back, but you're busy accounting or lawyering or administrating so you get it shipped back home. $2000?!? Whatever-- it arrives on the back of a transport and it's gorgeous. It's titled as a VW. That seems funny. You call your insurance agent-- he wants nothing to do with it. You buy a pair of aviators, and take your wife for a drive around the block.

The car stinks of unburnt fuel. You attempt to stop in traffic, and just about put the trailer ball on the back of some 90 lb soccer-mom's Expedition through your windshield. The seat is awful. There is 1/4 turn (either direction) of slop in the steering and if the shifter has a gate, you can't find it. You decide that there's something wrong, and you'll fix it. It's a VW after all-- how much could this stuff really cost?

You stop for an ice-cream cone and the car won't restart. It rides home on a flat-bed, and the tow-truck driver has a very keen interest in your wife's thighs on the ride back. She's (thankfully) not at all happy with this. You have no insurance, so the ride home costs $300. AAA seems like a good idea. 

You come on here, and read. You find that all of this stuff is not unusual. For some reason, the car starts just fine now. You locate a shifter (for $200?!!?), and attempt to tighten up the steering with the adjustment on the box. It's no better. The brakes are a source of perpetual discussion online. Some guys are happy with a $200 kit, other guys swear you need to spend $2000 on brakes apparently sourced from NASA. You cut down the middle, and order a set from one place or another for about $1000. They aren't in stock.

Meanwhile, you locate a company that will insure it. You have to promise not to drive it anywhere besides off the back of a trailer into a car-show. "Pleasure drives" are OK-ish, but the car has to be parked in a locked garage, with a security system and two Rottweilers always on patrol. You're wife doesn't care, because she has decided that she doesn't want to die in a Shriner clown car attempting to navigate the Dan Ryan, or be eye-raped by a Latvian tow-truck driver with 12 teeth.

This is your first week. You've spent $2000 to get the car shipped to you, $300 for the tow-truck, $1000 for the brakes that may (or may not) arrive within the next couple months, and $200 on a shifter that's coming from Thailand. You've lied to the DMV, and bought insurance that won't let you drive the car. It's parked anyhow, because you don't trust it to restart. You don't have time for this.

You find a place in CO or AZ or WA that will do a Subaru conversion for $10K, plus the engine. You realize that this wouldn't fix the steering, the brakes, the seat, or the shifting. Transport there and back will be $4000.

You go out to the garage to stare at it. It's more beautiful than you remembered it, but there's a puddle under the engine. 

This is the first week. It doesn't get easier after this.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I rarely disagree with my good buddy Stan, but I wouldn't use my Speedster as a DD in Florida, at least not in any part of the state that I have frequented. 

Summer days can be like the face of the sun until the afternoon when the torrential downpours hit for 30 minutes to an hour. After that the evenings can be perfect for a drive.

Where we are in the Panhandle we can get down below freezing in the mornings and at night during December through February. There are stretches when sixty degrees is a pipe dream during the day. That's why we are often referred to as Lower Alabama and disowned by some of those from Orlando south to the Keys, We are considered psuedo-Florida, the Redneck Riviera by some of those badly broiled citizens on the peninsula.

And, if you live in a tourist beckoning area as Wolfgang and I do, you have to contend with folks who immediately lose their minds when they cross the state borders into Florida and play bumper cars with each other and we locals. That makes for high alert defensive driving from Easter through Labor Day.

Then there are the Snowbirds from January to about March. They tend to drive slow and wander around lost, looking for the best early bird dinner specials and discount orthopedic shoe outlets. Usually they are off the roads by 7:00 pm, so that helps.

I guess, if you want to utilize your top a good deal, have air conditioning and good heat, and are accomplished with fiberglass repair and auto painting skills you can pull off year round usage.

Also, I reccomend the loudest most obnoxious horn you can get. The previous owner of my car installed a very loud system that mimics about four different police and emergency vehicle sirens as well as a dozen barnyard animals.

Nothing like hitting the siren in traffic to wake up some folks and clear a path or watch shocked drivers looking with fear for what must be an unseen one ton goat breathing down their necks.

My Toyota Tacoma does what I need year round, and carries fishing gear, kayaks, SUP equipment and groceries. The Speedie is for dates with my bride of 25 years and goofing off once I've read the weather report thoroughly.

I choose to be a fair weather, top down, smile on my face cruiser. That means about 50% of the year the Speedie is used. Not much different than the amount of time I drove it in Illinois, just controlled by some alternative factors.

 

Since we haven't yet answered some of your basic questions, I'll try, but prefacing it with: "These cars are only daily drivers in perpetually warm, sunny, dry climates".

1.  How can I tell which ones will hold together the best after 100,000 miles? I'd LOVE to see pics of ones that have 100k plus on them, because let's face it, any just put together car is going to look great, right?

There is only one care that we know of with this sort of mileage on it - MUSBJIM put 100,000 Kilometers (about 62,000 miles) on his in southern California.  Any aircooled car with a 2,110cc engine or smaller has the potential to go 100,000 miles, but NO ONE on here has or probably will drive their car that far.  These are weekend, good weather cars.

2.  Are these cars so close that if you need a door panel or something, one from manufacturer A will fit one from manufacturer B?

Absolutely not.  Often, two panels from the same manufacturer/mold don't even fit the same (just like the original Porsche 356, actually).

If not, how do you get comfort with owning a car made by a manufacturer that may go out of business (should the 2008 financial crisis repeat, for example)?

You pray that you don't get hit and need a part, OR you end up buying a complete body (or new car) as both MUSBJIM or Danny P. did.

3.  So on (back) to the longevity issue - what is your best advice on that?  

Pretty much buy whatever you like, the more status quo the better.  You won't own it long enough for longevity to be an issue because you'll be expecting everything you get in the Boxster and will be disappointed when the car doesn't deliver.  And yes, a coupe would be far better in the Chicago area.  Most Speedsters (I'll exempt IM Roadsters here) leak air and water like a sieve.

4.  SAS is a pyramid scheme that takes your money and promises to deliver a car.  At best, that wait is currently (help me here, Jim) 6 - 7 years and growing, but we honestly haven't heard of a car delivered from there in the past two years.  Run away.....

That's all I've got, but DO go visit the guys in your area with cars that interest you to see and feel first-hand what they are all about.  With the right expectations these can be terrific little cars.  With the wrong set of expectations, they get sold with low mileage after a few stressful months.

Stan Galat posted:

Let's say you're a car guy, and you'd like something different, beautiful, and fun. You see a speedster on the street corner or a picture of one sitting resplendent on the lawn at Amelia Island or Pebble Beach. You remember seeing shots of James Dean or Steve McQueen, aviators and unlit Luck Strikes, and some babe on their arms. The whole thing strikes you as perfect.

You're aware that 60 years have passed since these cars were new, but the idea that you are a smart guy (a car-guy!) and enough time has passed that technology should have caught up with a replica, which has the advantage of being able to incorporate new and better technology. The available used cars are all air-cooled-- but the thinking goes, "it really is a simple car, I'm sure with quality parts it could be at least as reliable as my riding lawn-mower". You figure you'll do a Subaru conversion as soon as it's feasible.

You hear that some guys (ahem) have driven their car from the heartland to one coast or another, and lived to tell the tale. You read about a guy from SoCal who uses his car for a daily driver and has had two with 130K mi between them. You see cars with less than 1000 mi. all over the internet advertised for $.75 on the dollar, and you think, "That guy was a pansy. A man like me would keep that thing and make it usable."

Guys tell you you'll never use a replica as a daily driver and it's easy to think they just aren't as smart, or persistent, or manly as you are. You read the questions some guys are asking, and you grow to suspect that everybody who's ever owned one of these is a lawyer or accountant that didn't know how to work on anything. You're not that guy, and as such you discard any advice they have for you.

Summer comes, and you find a Vintage Speedster on Craig's List or Auto-Trader selling for <$20K, and jump on it. You think about flying out to wherever and driving the car back, but you're busy accounting or lawyering or administrating so you get it shipped back home. $2000?!? Whatever-- it arrives on the back of a transport and it's gorgeous. It's titled as a VW. That seems funny. You call your insurance agent-- he wants nothing to do with it. You buy a pair of aviators, and take your wife for a drive around the block.

The car stinks of unburnt fuel. You attempt to stop in traffic, and just about put the trailer ball on the back of some 90 lb soccer-mom's Expedition through your windshield. The seat is awful. There is 1/4 turn (either direction) of slop in the steering and if the shifter has a gate, you can't find it. You decide that there's something wrong, and you'll fix it. It's a VW after all-- how much could this stuff really cost?

You stop for an ice-cream cone and the car won't restart. It rides home on a flat-bed, and the tow-truck driver has a very keen interest in your wife's thighs on the ride back. She's (thankfully) not at all happy with this. You have no insurance, so the ride home costs $300. AAA seems like a good idea. 

You come on here, and read. You find that all of this stuff is not unusual. For some reason, the car starts just fine now. You locate a shifter (for $200?!!?), and attempt to tighten up the steering with the adjustment on the box. It's no better. The brakes are a source of perpetual discussion online. Some guys are happy with a $200 kit, other guys swear you need to spend $2000 on brakes apparently sourced from NASA. You cut down the middle, and order a set from one place or another for about $1000. They aren't in stock.

Meanwhile, you locate a company that will insure it. You have to promise not to drive it anywhere besides off the back of a trailer into a car-show. "Pleasure drives" are OK-ish, but the car has to be parked in a locked garage, with a security system and two Rottweilers always on patrol. You're wife doesn't care, because she has decided that she doesn't want to die in a Shriner clown car attempting to navigate the Dan Ryan, or be eye-raped by a Latvian tow-truck driver with 12 teeth.

This is your first week. You've spent $2000 to get the car shipped to you, $300 for the tow-truck, $1000 for the brakes that may (or may not) arrive within the next couple months, and $200 on a shifter that's coming from Thailand. You've lied to the DMV, and bought insurance that won't let you drive the car. It's parked anyhow, because you don't trust it to restart. You don't have time for this.

You find a place in CO or AZ or WA that will do a Subaru conversion for $10K, plus the engine. You realize that this wouldn't fix the steering, the brakes, the seat, or the shifting. Transport there and back will be $4000.

You go out to the garage to stare at it. It's more beautiful than you remembered it, but there's a puddle under the engine. 

This is the first week. It doesn't get easier after this.

Stan, that's HILARIOUS. Oh, my sides ... Yet I sense the ring of truth somehow...

Jim Kelly posted:

D,

You mentioned that you were "5'10", 5'11" on a good day".  If you put a deposit on an SAS replica, your 5'11" days are over.

If you put a deposit on an SAS you would probably take delivery of it when you're 6 feet, as in 6 feet under, but then your estate would be taking delivery of the car and not you.

If you are used to driving a BOXSTER and have issues with a HONDA ACCORD....you are barking up the wrong tree. STAN is 100% right on....be careful what you wish for.... There is NO visibility in a speedster with the top up.....I have one and have driven it ONCE for 2 miles with the top up and it was frightening(and I live in Hawaii). I only drive with top down as I am not big on emergency room health care.

A coupe or an IM Roadster with A/C is likely your best shot at a 12 month car but read STAN's advice above AGAIN. And then ONCE MORE

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