Hey Guys:
I am doing some research for a motor build in the distant future. What do you guys think about the motor described on this site:
http://www.aircooled.net/2275c...-2-44mm-carburetors/
It sounds very similar to 2275 engine in building a fast and reliable engine by mark herbert. http://lowbus.com/BB/index.php?topic=1187.0;wap2
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This would be a great engine for a Speedster; 155 or 160hp at 6,000rpm, it will be a blast to drive! With that displacement it will have great bottom end/lower midrange torque (where we do 95% or so of our driving), get reasonable mileage when your foot's not stuffed into it, and require only regular maintenance (oil changes and valve adjustments every couple thousand miles). The 1 caveat- you'll need to make sure there is adequate airflow into the engine compartment. A large engine revving that high uses a lot of air, and if necessary will rob it from the cooling fan (even at highway speeds). I guess 2 caveats- it will need a thermostatically controlled cooler as well.
And yeah, the 2 engines would be very close, it similar heads and camshafts are used.
ALB
Thanks for the reply. I did read about the L5 heads. they requires 1 5/8 exhaust but you have to eliminated the heater boxes due to overheating issues it would cause the heads. One other thing I need to understand is the straight cut cams gears. What is the advantages or benefits from the straight cut. I watched a video by VWDarrin where he said they create a lot of engine noise and transmit more vibration through the value train, shorten their life.
ALB, is there any changes you would make to the ACN list of recommended parts?
Thanks
ALB posted:This would be a great engine for a Speedster; 155 or 160hp at 6,000rpm, it will be a blast to drive! With that displacement it will have great bottom end/lower midrange torque (where we do 95% or so of our driving), get reasonable mileage when your foot's not stuffed into it, and require only regular maintenance (oil changes and valve adjustments every couple thousand miles). The 1 caveat- you'll need to make sure there is adequate airflow into the engine compartment. A large engine revving that high uses a lot of air, and if necessary will rob it from the cooling fan (even at highway speeds). I guess 2 caveats- it will need a thermostatically controlled cooler as well.
And yeah, the 2 engines would be very close, it similar heads and camshafts are used.
I agree with ALB on air flow. That is one of the major issues with these cars. (Clean Air). In regards to airflow, you need that to keep the engine cool. I would stay with a 82mm or go to a 84mm crankshaft but with 90.5 bore. Less heat generated by those 90.5, slightly thicker cylinder wall. The engle 120 is a good cam but consider advancing it. Also I go with 40 mm webers and tighter deck height. Tighter deck would require cutting deep valve reliefs in the piston. As for the exhaust 1.5 would work, the 1-5/8 would be better but the muffler makes a difference too.
just my 2 sense on a early Sunday morning.
@Anthony Why the 40's?
Anthony.
Our motor is currently a 1915 with 94 bore. So I am going to stick with that but get the case relieved and full flowed for the 82 crank. The car is really a weekender driver around the street. Don't plan to race.
ALB
What oil cooler would you recommend? Do you have a link to one you could pass on? Where to you mount it so it is not unsightly?
Thanks
I have L5 heads with 1.5" exhaust. John at aircooled said that would be OK. I also have 1.5" heater boxes I got from A1 with the exhaust.
I have a cylinder head gauge and the temp ranges between 285 & 330.
The 1.5 exhaust puts the torque down lower (where you want it) than the 1.75 at the expense of high rpm where you might not want to go anyway.
Use a setrab oil cooler and fan pack.
contact me if you need one or shop eBay
Michael McKelvey posted:I have L5 heads with 1.5" exhaust. John at aircooled said that would be OK. I also have 1.5" heater boxes I got from A1 with the exhaust.
I have a cylinder head gauge and the temp ranges between 285 & 330.
The 1.5 exhaust puts the torque down lower (where you want it) than the 1.75 at the expense of high rpm where you might not want to go anyway.
That's why advancing the cam with the 1-5/8 works.
For my money L5 heads would not be my choice for a "mild 2275(6)". I know I sound like a broken record, but they don't flow any better than 044 Pancitos and the port volume is significantly bigger.
For the record, the holy grail of heads is to flow as much as possible with the smallest ports possible. Everything is a tradeoff. Any monkey (me, for instance) can get heads to make impressive flow numbers by making the ports bigger and bigger. The end result would be an engine that makes impressive HP numbers (at WOT) but which is incredibly lazy. Conversely, small ports (stock VW for example) provide really "snappy" throttle response and driveability, but fall flat at about 4500 RPM. The 044 Panchito magic is that the ports are tiny (slightly bigger than a stock), but they flow enough to support 150-ish HP.
I'm totally good with a 120 cam. I completely agree with Anthony regarding 90.5 cylinders, although thickwall 92s would be super nice (making it a 2180). I'd still use a 1-1/2 sidewinder and 40 carbs. The thing would make an honest 150 on the dyno and pull like a train.
Pick your own poison, but this formula would work really, really well.
Mike
Thanks. We currently have 1.5 heater boxes and 1.5 trimill peashoots exhaust. What do you guys think about the empi hpmx carbs instead of Webers? Are they junk?
Empi' are JUNK!!!!
also find a good four tube header or a vintage speed 1.5 muffler
^X2
Find some Dellorto 40s (on the Samba, or similar) and send 'em to Blackline Racing for some rebuild love. Spend some money on an A1 sidewinder to fit those heater boxes.
Anthony posted:Use a setrab oil cooler and fan pack.
contact me if you need one or shop eBay
Also if you decide to buy a used one send it out to be cleaned. Otherwise buy new unless you know the person. Common cooler is a Mesa but the setrab is much more efficient.
I don't know if there is anything to be concerned about here, but clicking a link that has .php in it can be very risky. Be careful!
Anthony posted:Use a setrab oil cooler and fan pack.
contact me if you need one or shop eBay
X2 on the Setrab with a fanpack. I mounted mine horizontally on the frame ahead of the axle. I had to have a custom hanger made for it though. Plenty of airflow and it's unobstructed.
Why dellorto 40s vs WEBER?
Robert
That looks like a very clean installation. Can you tell me what model # that is or the size?
I may have missed it in the thread, but beef up the transaxial for the added torque especially down shifting it will create a lot of stress in the system. These old transaxles where built for lower torque motors.
Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:For my money L5 heads would not be my choice for a "mild 2275(6)". I know I sound like a broken record, but they don't flow any better than 044 Pancitos and the port volume is significantly bigger.
For the record, the holy grail of heads is to flow as much as possible with the smallest ports possible. Everything is a tradeoff. Any monkey (me, for instance) can get heads to make impressive flow numbers by making the ports bigger and bigger. The end result would be an engine that makes impressive HP numbers (at WOT) but which is incredibly lazy. Conversely, small ports (stock VW for example) provide really "snappy" throttle response and driveability, but fall flat at about 4500 RPM. The 044 Panchito magic is that the ports are tiny (slightly bigger than a stock), but they flow enough to support 150-ish HP.
I'm totally good with a 120 cam. I completely agree with Anthony regarding 90.5 cylinders, although thickwall 92s would be super nice (making it a 2180). I'd still use a 1-1/2 sidewinder and 40 carbs. The thing would make an honest 150 on the dyno and pull like a train.
Pick your own poison, but this formula would work really, really well.
Do you really think it will make 150 hp with 40s? My 2110 has Panchitos and it only made 146-148 in cool morning air and that is with 44s.
I cant give all my secrets.
building a motor is not just parts alone. Compression ratio along with how you achieve it all ads up. Horsepower is just a number. The torque band makes a bigger difference. The key to all this is the complete package. That includes the transmission. I have a 1600 with dual kadrons on single port heads and it gives many dual port head motors a run for their money. The close ratio third and fourth make a big improvement to the driveablility.
Bobby D posted:Robert
That looks like a very clean installation. Can you tell me what model # that is or the size?
Setrab FP119M22I
http://www.racerpartswholesale.../Setrab_Oil_Coolers2
Fpcopo VS posted:Do you really think it will make 150 hp with 40s? My 2110 has Panchitos and it only made 146-148 in cool morning air and that is with 44s.
I don't know. I'm not trying to be caviler-- but since I'm not drag racing I don't really care. I did say, "150-ish" HP, and you are 2 away (well within the margin of error) from that number. But since lots of other stuff (cam, compression, phase of the moon, the Orange County Correction Factor, etc.) matter in achieving this, I'd say it's possible.
The 40s would take away the last 5 or 10% of peak HP at WOT, but what they DO give is "snap" throttle response. Everybody looks at that HP number. If you hang with this long enough, you start chasing the torque number from 2000- 3500 RPM. But the thing that makes any car fun to drive is a combination of available torque, and how quickly one can roll into the throttle and "tach up", especially with a 4 (rather than 5 or 6) speed trans.
Anthony posted:I cant give all my secrets.
building a motor is not just parts alone. Compression ratio along with how you achieve it all ads up. Horsepower is just a number. The torque band makes a bigger difference. The key to all this is the complete package. That includes the transmission. I have a 1600 with dual kadrons on single port heads and it gives many dual port head motors a run for their money. The close ratio third and fourth make a big improvement to the driveablility.
Like that ^
I see a guy putting stuff like that up, and I think, "he really gets it". Terry Nuckels introduced me to Tony a few years back when I was looking at a bus. He went to inspect it for me (it ended up being fantastic). Since then, he's impressed me more every time he opens his mouth.
Gentlemen, if I were doing this again-- I'd look REALLY hard at paying Tony to do this for me. He understands exactly what 99% of us are after in an air-cooled speedster.
x2 re Stan. "Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races."
Hey Guys
Our speedster has the pro-street trans-axle with 3.88 gearing. Any idea of what HP and Torque this can handles?
Bobby D posted:Hey Guys
Our speedster has the pro-street trans-axle with 3.88 gearing. Any idea of what HP and Torque this can handles?
More than you will throw at it.
I just received my Engle cam and lifter package today. I am kind of upset. I ordered it from amazon. The description was Engle w120 cam lifters and gear. When I opened the package I was surprised to see the lifter were empi not Engle. Wanted to stick with the same brand cam and lifters. I was not happy. The vendor never disclosed the empi brand name. What do you guys think about mixing empi with Engle. I know engle's warranty is void if don't use their lifters. I don't trust the quality of China stuff. The empi lifters are bullet 28mm with the hole.
I would notify them you're sending them back. Who pulled the substitution on you?
PS- The problem- they may be alright, they may not be. Do you want to take the chance? I wouldn't...Al
PPSS- Check out this very similar 2276 Jerico built on the Samba (ignore Alan U's comments).-
Pro One Performance Parts. I just went directly to their website. They don't carry Engle lifters, only Empi.
The Cam gear is empi too.
Bobby D posted:The Cam gear is empi too.
Sounds like a bait and switch. I'd return them, give them a negative review, and report their fraudulent advertising to Amazon.
ALB posted:I would notify them you're sending them back. Who pulled the substitution on you?
PS- The problem- they may be alright, they may not be. Do you want to take the chance? I wouldn't...Al
PPSS- Check out this very similar 2276 Jerico built on the Samba (ignore Alan U's comments).-
ALB
I took a look at that link. That engine is pretty much the same setup as I am considering. It has great torque right of the start and hangs in there through out the rpm range.
Question. The ACN setup calls for straight cut cam gears. I am not a fan of the noise the straight cut gears makes. I understand they take pressure of the cam bearings. Are they a must for street engine setup like I am considering?
ALB posted:
Check out this very similar 2276 Jerico built on the Samba (ignore Alan U's comments).-
Darren has a very optimistic dyno. There's the "Orange County Correction Factor", and then there's Darren's dyno. I'm pretty sure my Honda push mower would make 25 hp on that dyno.
The more I learn, the less I listen to his advice.
Even if the numbers are over-inflated that torque curve is beautiful.
Robert M posted:Here are some photos of my Setrab.
Nice job Robert. Very clean.
Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:The more I learn, the less I listen to his advice.
Why is that, Stan?
ALB posted:Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:The more I learn, the less I listen to his advice.
Why is that, Stan?
Stuff just doesn't add up.
Hey Guys
I just ordered the engle w120 cam (clearanced for storker), Lifters and gear from Pacific Customs. I priced the same things out at Aircoolednet but when you add in their shipping cost it ended up being $56 more.
What do you guys think is a better 82mm crankshaft: The CB performance Super Race or Scat 4340 chromoly (none billet)? The Scat is like 30 bucks more. I am pretty sure the Scat is made from american steal and the CB is Chinese Steal. Any thoughts?
