Most accurate builder

Do you want one that looks like the original or drives like the original?  IM and Beck are on modern space frames.  If you want one that drives like an original you probably want a pan car like the original such as a Vintage.

I'm looking for the best made car that *looks* original.  I won't object if it drives a bit better than original .  

I just took a look at JPS - they seem like a high quality builder that I should add to the mix.

One thing I haven't found yet is a builder who uses the original 2-spoke banjo steering wheel - is there an aftermarket supplier?

Also if anyone has a resource for original paint colors on the Speedsters I would appreciate it.

Best,

Greg

You can buy a replica two spoke at Sierra Madre Collection for a bit over 2K

...also, I would wait for the 356C Coupe. I am certain Special Editions is going to start making these as this is the future of these replica cars.

3 Spoke Banjo wheels are flimsy - I can only image a 2 spoke would be like a wet noodle.  I'm sure Beck could do an umbrella brake handle. Beck is tube frame so more interior room but the center tunnel looks more authentic than a VW pan based car.  A VS built on an early VW pan (with tunnel mounted rotary heat control) and eliminate VW center tunnel pull hand brake with either a hydraulic hand brake or umbrella under dash emergency would be close to original look with swing axle handling too. 

Rusty S posted:

...also, I would wait for the 356C Coupe. I am certain Special Editions is going to start making these as this is the future of these replica cars.

356C coupes are the future?

Not my future. It's no mystery to me why original speedsters are worth 5x a C coupe.

To my mind's eye the C is the aging, pudgey, middle-aged version of the beauty queen the A once was. Too much jewelry, too much makeup, too much visual heft.

I (like all of us) have modern vehicles with cruise control and air conditioning which keep me isolated from the world outside. I'm understanding the push for Subaru engines. I kind've understand the desire for an A coupe, if it's going to be a daily driver (but not really otherwise).

I don't get the C thing at all.

IMHO, the only two builders worth considering are IM & Beck.  IM are the most authentic and the priciest & are located in Vancouver, BC.   Becks are less authentic, but roomier with lighter weight construction and are located in Bremen, IN.

I'm a rabidly loyal Beck owner from Detroit.  

Both companies have outstanding reputations and customer service.

I chose Beck due to design, reputation, quality, proximity, & price point.  Your equation will be different.  I've never regretted my decision.

Search this site on the brands to get all the info you would ever want.

Well I think they are all beautiful. The Pre A, A, B, and C. I am hoping someone will start building the C.

Greg,

Most of the replica builders call their replicas a 356A, 1957 model.  That means that the 3-spoke banjo wheel would be the stock steering wheel most often supplied.  Be aware that "standard" equipment often varies, so that VDM, Petri, and Pealit were all "standard" issue steering wheels for the A.  Options included Nardi, Derrington, and wooden VDMs, all of which could be supplied from the factory.  When dealing with 356 history, be prepared to encounter lots of information that seems contradictory.  

If you take original looks vs. performance specifications to their logical extreme, a buyer would specify that the builder supply drum brakes and bias-ply tires, a giant step backwards for any performance driver.  However, he who pays the piper calls the tune, eh?  

This is all great stuff - thanks already.

I'm early to this process...any opinions on JDS as a builder?

I know that Nardi's and Derrigton's were options on the Speedster - I have a 100M wheel on my BN1 made by a guy named Mike Lempert, he makes gorgeous reproduction wheels to absolutely exact specs - but I think I'm looking for the stock banjo look for this car.

I'll definitely be going with disk brakes and radial tires...I'm looking for cosmetic authenticity really, not mechanical authenticity.

This is going to be fun...

Did you mean JPS? If so use the search function (magnifying glass) above and type JPS, grab a beer or your favorite adult beverage and get comfortable...

All IMs are rear IRS.  All Becks are rear swing axle.  All Becks are front torsion bar suspension.  IMs can be had in front torsion bar, 914 or 911 suspension.  If you are interested in a low hp aircooled car with very authentic looks get the IM with the front torsion bar vw suspension.  You will just have to live with the IRS.  If you get a Beck it will be a bit less authentic looking with rear swing axle.  For the "basic" Beck you are looking at $50k.  For the "basic" IM you are looking at more like $70k.

Phil, I think a "basic Beck" can be had for high 30s, or so.  As a 10-year Beck owner I can vouch for both there quality and customer support.  You are unlikely to be disappointed with either a Beck or an Intermeccanica.  The latter is a high-end build to the highest standards, and priced accordingly.  Becks are somewhat more affordable, but wonderful.

Do some research using the Search function, and attend some gatherings if you can.  There's nothing like being able to lay your hands on the real thing.

As for Mike Lempert and his wheels, he is a friend and neighbor of mine and I have one of his wheels in my car.  Highly recommended.   He also has several Healeys that I've driven.  I much prefer the Speedster.

Oh, and Rusty, the Beck coupe will be a C.

" flimsy banjo wheel" .... simple fix using a piece of hard rubber tap the spoke cleats   toward the center hub, this increases tension on the spokes.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Rusty S posted:

...also, I would wait for the 356C Coupe. I am certain Special Editions is going to start making these as this is the future of these replica cars.

356C coupes are the future?

Not my future. It's no mystery to me why original speedsters are worth 5x a C coupe.

To my mind's eye the C is the aging, pudgey, middle-aged version of the beauty queen the A once was. Too much jewelry, too much makeup, too much visual heft.

I (like all of us) have modern vehicles with cruise control and air conditioning which keep me isolated from the world outside. I'm understanding the push for Subaru engines. I kind've understand the desire for an A coupe, if it's going to be a daily driver (but not really otherwise).

I don't get the C thing at all.

What Stan said. Why anyone would want a coupe (especially a C) when they could have a car such as a Speedster is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, C's are alright (if someone gave me one I'd certainly take it) but the C's body lines don't hold a candle to the A, be it Speedster, Cabriolet or Coupe. As you've probably guessed, I don't get the C thing at all either...

Rusty S posted:

Well I think they are all beautiful. The Pre A, A, B, and C. I am hoping someone will start building the C.

Count me in the same camp. 

Not wishing to steal this thread but I especially like some of the original Porsche C model "Outlaw" style coupes that have shown up in recent years such as the one pictured below; therefore, it would be interesting to see what if any similar alterations could be done to a replica.

Cliff

I like my "C" ! Really shows the evolution between the 356 and the early 911.  Now if I can convince someone to build me a twin grill roadster that would surely be the best of both worlds for me. 

The Shane Balkowitsch restoration above, done flawlessly by Bill Hamilton, was one of the inspirations for my coupe.

  In my opinion getting as much info as you can is good but seeing the different builder offerings will help even more..   A torsion bar car does not even compare to a full 911 front end.   Swing axels vs IRS IRS wins hands down.  If your going to build new then even better to be driving them as this would be the best experience but it may be Hard to find a test vehicle unless you plan on flying here and there or waiting to go to Carlisle.   Building new do you want to build it twice?

Remember that an IM is in Canadian dollars so at this point the US $ is way above the looney if that is a help with cost.

Jim Kelly posted:

The Shane Balkowitsch restoration above, done flawlessly by Bill Hamilton, was one of the inspirations for my coupe.

@Jim Kelly Can you post more pictures of your car? I've been searching...

Just throwing in here: I think this guy wants wide 5s. So he wants a swing axle. So he wants a Beck. Tell Chuck to relocate the parking brake under the dash & make it with two big gauges and one little one with three lights. Bee hives out back. Here's your $2,000 Pre-A steering wheel.

Get you some them cool-ass aluminium wheels.

Welcome to the madness, as they say.

Entry level air cooled Intermeccanica is $57,300.

Here you go, Bill.  I'm not very techie.  Hope I didn't wreck anything posting these pics.  I've made lots of changes in an attempt to get the engine to run cooler.  The mods aren't shown in the photos.

Is that in US $ Marty?

Jim Kelly posted:

The Shane Balkowitsch restoration above, done flawlessly by Bill Hamilton, was one of the inspirations for my coupe.

Yours is more cool.

Jim, that's a sharp looking car, thanks for posting the pics.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Rusty S posted:

...also, I would wait for the 356C Coupe. I am certain Special Editions is going to start making these as this is the future of these replica cars.

356C coupes are the future?

Not my future. It's no mystery to me why original speedsters are worth 5x a C coupe.

To my mind's eye the C is the aging, pudgey, middle-aged version of the beauty queen the A once was. Too much jewelry, too much makeup, too much visual heft.

I (like all of us) have modern vehicles with cruise control and air conditioning which keep me isolated from the world outside. I'm understanding the push for Subaru engines. I kind've understand the desire for an A coupe, if it's going to be a daily driver (but not really otherwise).

I don't get the C thing at all.

The C is to the 356 as the super beetle is to the type 1. ......aka...the bloated one. 

edsnova posted:

Just throwing in here: I think this guy wants wide 5s. So he wants a swing axle. So he wants a Beck. Tell Chuck to relocate the parking brake under the dash & make it with two big gauges and one little one with three lights. Bee hives out back. Here's your $2,000 Pre-A steering wheel.

Get you some them cool-ass aluminium wheels.

Welcome to the madness, as they say.

 

Wide 5 does not necessarily mean a swing axle. My car (for example) is IRS and has wide 5s. Intermeccanica does this all the time. I'm pretty sure nobody else does (or even can). 

If a guy is OK with a swing alxe, I agree 100% that a Beck is the only way to fly. Telling Chuck about the e-brake and gauges might be difficult, though. Chuck lives in another state, and seems busy building V10 motorcycles.

IM can do wide 5s with IRS but you still have to get front VW torsion bar.  Can't get 914 or 911 front suspension with wide 5s.  My estimate of $50k for a Beck and $70k for a IM is considering that he wants as close to accurate as possible.  Square weave, under dash e-brake, wide 5's etc. is going to add up.  And I really doubt he's going to want a 1600 cc engine.

If you want the most accurately detailed reproduction of an original Speedster, then Intermeccanica is the company you want.  Just take a look at their website, and you will see the detail and quality that Henry puts into his cars.

They ain't cheap, but they are the best (in a number of ways) 

Hi all, I'd like to possibly resurrect this thread, seems like OP was only here for a day but I am going down the same path as the OP.  I would have loved to see where he ended up with his decision.  Is there any updated info from the group on this question or is it still IM or Beck?  I am very tempted with the Suby engine which I know goes against the whole original thing.  Any updated input would be appreciated.

I would make a list of what you consider needed for an original look then you can rule out the builders who can and can't do certain options, or modern improvements. 

All builders can, but some are committed to certain methods or drivetrains that may make them less flexible.  All builders will not lenghten the car for an example  or at least I have never heard of it. 

I think the relative rankings still hold true.  The Beck C Coupe (tentatively called the Beck Super Coupe I believe) is in final testing and production should start very soon.  The chassis is totally modern with coil-over control arm suspension, rack and pinion steering, disk brakes, etc.  The new chassis will probably be available in the Speedster at some point, but for now that car is still on the round tube frame with traditional torsion-bar suspension.  That said, they're still wonderful cars.

ok, thanks guys...thanks for the responses...I'm trying to figure out what I want and more importantly was original...that is the process now...I did buy the Porsche 356 book which covers restoration, etc. to see (as best as possible) what the original car came with.  I certainly have done other research as well both on this forum, others and the proverbial google is your friend method.  I know they had steel bodies, 70+ HP engines, pan based body, drum brakes, etc.  I built a 427 Cobra replica and went through the same process so I'm familiar with the gives and takes and the fact that it will never be an original.  I'm leaning towards a visual clone (body, dash, wheel, steering wheel) with as modern as I can upgrades including disc brakes, Suby engine, etc.  Just don't know enough yet but the research is half the fun.  Thanks.

428Street posted:

... I know they had steel bodies, 70+ HP engines, pan based body, drum brakes, etc...

You probably already know this, but maybe not.

One of the big differences between our replicas (from any builder) and the original cars is that the originals weren't body on chassis (like VW's). You couldn't just unbolt the body from a 'pan' that carried all the running gear and suspension. They were some of the earliest 'unibody' cars, where the body itself was a load-bearing structure.

This was likely responsible for the original cars feeling more solid and 'tank-like' than most other lightweight sports cars of the period. And it's something that purists will go on interminably about when you try to tell them your replica could be a better driver than an original.

It's a fine point, but something to consider if you're concerned about an 'authentic' build.

If you tell us more about why you want to be 'authentic', you'll get some more informed advice. Is it just a cosmetic thing? Do you just want 'the look'? If so, there are lots of details that can be done to any build that capture that. If you're more concerned with making people think it's an actual P-car, nothing will fool the purists, and most people who aren't purists don't care and won't know the differences anyway.

I've spent most of my spare dollars over the years (maybe all of my spare dollars) making the car run better and don't care too much about an authentic look. But everyone has a different take on it.

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

428Street posted:

... I know they had steel bodies, 70+ HP engines, pan based body, drum brakes, etc...

 

You probably already know this, but maybe not...

 

If you tell us more about why you want to be 'authentic', you'll get some more informed advice. Is it just a cosmetic thing? Do you just want 'the look'? If so, there are lots of details that can be done to any build that capture that. If you're more concerned with making people think it's an actual P-car, nothing will fool the purists, and most people who aren't purists don't care and won't know the differences anyway.

I've spent most of my spare dollars over the years (maybe all of my spare dollars) making the car run better and don't care too much about an authentic look. But everyone has a different take on it.

 

^^^What Mitch said^^^ (_{Mitch's response condensed in the interest of space only)}

Another note- You may have found this with the Cobra replica, but I'll say it anyway- 99 people out of 100 won't know any of the "details" and will think your car is cool, no matter the powerplant, wheels and how it's trimmed out. Every once in a blue moon some dickhead will totally miss the point and remind you of every thing that is not original Porsche about it, but as I said, he's totally missing the point of these cars. Acceptance from the P crowd ranges from none at all to begrudging (yeah, it does look like it might be a little fun and you can actually drive it, but it still doesn't have a P vin #- and as such they're still missing the point) to more enthusiastic. It is a plastic clown car, will always be a plastic clown car, and without a genuine vin # will never be fully accepted into the P fold, so as long as that's alright, do it up the way you want, and enjoy! Al

From 20' away, one just needs to look at the windshield wipers.  Most replicas come with the VW wipers rather than use the thinner wipers of the originals.  Then there's the wheels.  Some speedsters come with 4-lug wheels.  You will be able to tell by counting the slots that surround the hubcap, if one is on.  There will be 8 slots or openings.  The 5-lug wheels have 10 slots or openings.  

Where the replicas start to fall short visually as compared to the originals is the interior.
1. The top.  The original was a folding top that did not snap in place at the rear.  The tonneau snapped in place using Tenax fasteners.  Fabricators such as Vintage and JPS (and I believe IM) snap the tops in place using button snaps, as opposed to the Tenax fasteners.
2. The parking brake.  By far the easiest giveaway for a replica.  The originals had the umbrella handbrake under the dash, as opposed to the handbrake in the center.
3.  Dash.  A few areas of difference, depending on the replica maker.  The gauges on most replicas tend to be oversized by a few millimeters.  I know it's only a few mm, but once you witness an original, it sticks out.  A number of replicas have the speedometer on the left, when the originals had it on the right of the cluster.  
4. Dash Pad.  VS and JPS do without a dash pad.  IM and Beck have a rolled pad.  In the original it's more flattened.  Also, VS and JPS do not meet the top of the door like the original.
5. Door.  The top of the door card is rounded on the original, similar to IM and Beck.  On VS and JPS, it's a rectangular extrusion,
6. Door Panel.  The original is flat (no pockets, or speakers for a stereo),
7. Steering Column.  There are noticeable differences in steering columns, hubs and directional stalks on the the originals against the replicas.  
8. Door thresholds.  Depending on the manufacturer, the threshold will be different.  VS puts grip tape on the threshold.  The original is a rubber threshold held down by aluminum strips.  VS, JPS and IM all have the widened thresholds, similar to the original, but the Beck is much narrower which gives more interior room.  On the original, the threshold has chamfered edge, whereas the replicas are mostly squared off.  Also the heater opening is located at this threshold on the original; on the replicas it's forward the doors in the footwells.
There is a piece of chrome trim where the leather door panel meets the painted surface at the top of the door (on the original).  The trim is deleted on most replicas.
9. Foot wells.  The originals have map pockets at these locations, and fancier stitching in the carpet.  
10. Pedal assembly.  The pedals on the original return into the firewall, whereas the replicas do not, well except for IM.  IM builds out the firewall to conceal the pedal assembly (if I recall).
11. Flooring.  The originals used a rubber floor, whereas all the replicas I've seen to date are carpeted.  
12. Heater assembly.  Some replicas have a similar heater knob to the originals, where the later chassis models have the heater lever at the center parking brake.
13. Tunnel.  The tunnel is the originals is flatter than those found in the VS and JPS.  Beck and IM are more closely able to replicate the tunnels
14. Frunk.  The original speedsters have a non-carpeted frunk that houses the spare tire.  The spare tire is seated in the nose.  Beck has the tire in the correct location.  VS and JPS due away with the tire in the nose.

I'm sure I left out 1,000 other quick visual differences between the two.  Hopefully those much wiser than me can help complete this list or modify any inaccuracies I may have typed.

I have also included a number of interior shots of the original, IM, Beck and VS to assist in seeing the visual differences.

-Kevin

Many builders offers different build packages. Some will sell it to you in a form that will let you build it as original as you want................if you're willing to do the work.