Mounting body to VW pan and making sure it is square!?

Hey guys. I'm at the point in my build where my pan is rolling and 95% done and I'm ready to temporarily mount the body to the frame. The problem I'm running into is that the holes in the metal sub-frame in the body don't quite line up with the mounting holes in my pan. Regardless, I'm more concerned about making sure that the body gets placed on the pan sqaure so I would like to assume that no mounting holes are present and completely square it and then see if any of the holes can be utilize without modification. I know everyone will ask what type of body/kit etc. I'm sure almost no one has heard of them, they are premier classics out of mexico. Actually the kit is quite "beefy" and of pretty good quality, I just need some guidance so I don't make a "wrong turn". Thanks in advance guys. Here are some pics of it "sitting" on the frame.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/crankycowboy73/album/576460762355405394

Just my thoughts, and I'm sure someone else will help with this -

I'd make sure the key points around the front and rear suspension line up - if the side holes around the floorpan don't line up, that's not really an issue.

The body and subframe I bought in the UK had no holes pre-drilled down the sides, it's very dependent on how the side pans have been welded in. So I had to drill my own holes to mount the side of the chassis to the subframe.

For the car to drive properly, the alignment of the front and rear suspension need to tie in with the body very accurately and securely.

Great looking chassis by the way :)

I think the only sure way is to have the Wheels and tires that you intend using installed and aligned. At least 4 wheels and tires that are the same offset width and size.
Guestimate the ride height of the pan, and try to get it to that height when you are measuring everything.
ALIGN the front and REAR the best you can before commiting to the body position.
(This next one is my opinion on fore aft position)
Mount the body as far back in relation to the pan as you can.
The front body yoke usually is the limiter. The yoke sits on the pan, so it's not easily moved around. You'll probably not be able to move it enough without serious effort to make the Rear wheels look out of place in relation the rear wheel wells.
Look through the photos on this forum. Notice that all the pan based cars look like the front wheels are too far towards the back. This is especially exagerated on extreemely lowerd VW beamed Speedsters.
Measure everything fore, aft side to side, shoot for EVEN dims. side to side.
Don't forget if your Speedster is a CMC or anything early enough to NOT HAVE the supports from the Posts behind the door to the rear engine bay halo frame, that you'll need to add these.
Greg

Thanks for the replies guys (you guys are always so great at providing info). This kit doesn't have holes down the sides either. Which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned as I will drill them after figuring out exactly where the body needs to sit. My concern is that if I place the body where it seems about right...it appears that the passenger side sits a little further forward than the driver's side...all holes are approx the same distance "off". I'm not confident about the reliability of the jig they used to mount the subframe in the body...so that could be slightly off. Is there a sure fire way to take these measurements and what should be the points to measure off of to get the dimensions. As you mentioned, these aren't the wheels/tires I intend to use...so maybe establishing that prior to taking the measurements would help. Thanks again for all your help.

Place your rolling chassis on a level surface. If it's not level put a few pieces of thin plywood under the tires. Now make four plumbob's out of some nylon string with nuts tight to each end. Make them roughly 20" long. Tape a plumbob on the body at the center line of each wheel will opening. Take a measurement from the center of the hub to the string from each opposing wheel on the same axle.

...I'm telling ya, I learn something new everyday on this site, I luv it! Joe, that's a great (and simple) tech tip!

Joe, I was hoping you would show up in this question. You have been my inspiration through this whole process and have answered so many questions for me...You are the man! I just felt bad sending you yet another email...though you ALWAYS respond. Thanks again guys!

CC , No problem . Email me anytime. Your car looks like its coming along very nicely.
Joe

Joe,
Simple and good idea!. Sometimes I get a feeling, you do some sort of oil pipeline work :)

~Alan

Yes Alan, That too! We don't use string. I have been very busy with excavators, utility companies and farmers hitting our buried pipelines that are clearly marked. It's amazing how many times our aerial patrols observe this.

Eric...The body of my (still not complete) Speedster came from the same company as yours. The body came with a coat of grey LAQUER based primer. This isn't compatable with todays urethane paints, so I removed the entire coat of primer. This turned out to be a good thing, as I then discovered a number of "spider web" type cracks in the gel coat of the body and trunck lid. These would have eventually come to the surface of the finished paint if they had not been discovered and fixed.

Brian, Thanks for the reply. That's the same type primer I have all over my body. What do you suggest for removing it all? And how did you treat the "spider cracks"? I have a couple myself I have already notcied through working on the body prep.

Another question....can you use chemical strippers on the body without doing harm or weakening the glass? After reading Brian's post...I went out to the body and took some laquer thinner on a rag and the primer wiped off pretty easily.....tells me it's some cheapo crap, but I don't want to do harm to the body. So any suggestions for stripping would be apprecited.

Before to start getting crazy with striper think about an epoxy primer. It will save you a bunch of headaches.

Greg
Can you expound on the door post lacking on CMC's

Robert , Greg is pointing out the location the rear engine bay frame is attached to the horizontal cross frame behind the door. There is a transition angle where these two members are welded together. CMC is some cases stitch welded a 1/8" thick flat plate horizontally across this area to add strength and to eliminate the lever action. Very poor design. This creates alot of flex at the door location sometmes allowing the doors to pop open when you hit a bump in the road.

Eric, don't just put epoxy primer over the existing primer. The spider cracks will eventually show thru that and your finish coat. Additionally, the urethane finish coat will probably go cloudy after a year or so because of off gassing of the laquer solvents even if the laquer primer has been on for a while. I used a non-toxic stripper, and it worked fine over the fiberglass, but where there was body filler, it gummed up the top surface. The filler was found primarilly to the rear of the door openings and along the rocker panel areas. I wound up doing 1 to 2 square feet at a time; when I came to the begining of an area with body filler, I would use only a sander, not the stripper. I'll check tonight to see what kind of stripper I used.

I found that a good random orbital sander with "stick on" (hook & loop) backed sanding discs was convenient and worked well. USE A GOOD DUST MASK. This, and a 12" long sanding block had been recommended to me by the shop that eventually did the final painting. The sand paper for the sanding block was sticky backed, and came on a 2" wide roll that was about 10 yards long.

For the spider cracks, I followed every "vein" with the edge of the disc sander; opening them up in a "V" until I just reached the glass fabric. I then filled the widened veins with epoxy, sanded it, and finished it off with a light coat of body filler. Again, I'll check on the manufacturer of the filler that I used. It to was recommended by the owner of the body shop.

Go to the PHOTOS section of this site and look for "bvandeursen" for my pictures.

Robert:

To expound a little more on the brace behind the door, if you look forward within the rear wheel well, you should see a 2" X 2" vertical frame member that is positioned to receive one end of the roll bar side mount (another poor design, but what the heck, it's a CMC).

What I did was to position a 1" X 1" square steel tube (available from most welding shops and, sometimes, good hardware stores) between the top of that vertical piece, ran it diagonally across to the rear frame member to attach (welded) just behind the rear shock mount. If you make it the right length and position it just so, it can also be bolted through one of the bolt positions of the roll bar side mount where the plate attaches to the side of the rear seat area, thereby stregthening THAT as well (the roll bar can oscillate when going over bumps without further bracing).

So, in summary, it's welded to the top of the vertical brace, welded to the rear (horshoe) frame member behind the shock mount, and bolted to the roll bar side plate. Makes things a little stiffer back there.

Doing it this way, you can then bolt them in place (both sides), drive to a welding shop, get it on a jack, remove the rear wheels and the guy can weld it in less than five minutes.

gn