Greg was hesitant to even build me a coupe. He can really crank out the speedsters fast. He has really focused on simplicity. So I’m going to stick with a 4 speed. With 230 ft-lbs of torque it better be a robust 4 speed. Unlike my Spyder where I needed a LSD for performance I plan on pretty sedate driving in the coupe. No LSD. If I spin a few tires so be it. It’s an outlaw so by definition it will be simple. Greg says he’s done plenty of role bars in speedsters so it should not be a problem. My biggest requests involve driving. I want IRS, Willwood brakes and rack and pinion steering. And in a coupe as much sound deadening as possible.
@JMM (Michael) posted:I know, and really, folks should know that a coupe isn't twice as much work as a speedster, it's 3 times as much work.
It surprises me that they didn't start out costing 3x as much as a Speedster. It really is that much more work. Ditto Subaru, which adds another order of magnitude to the complexity.
A far as Greg simplifying, that's why I was surprised to see the body, @550 Phil. I talked with Greg about a month ago, and it was my understanding that he was shutting off anything besides aircooled speedster builds until he gets caught up.
Well done getting a spot in line 2 years ago. 2 years ago was in the depths of "the troubles" and there were not many people looking forward at that point - getting that spot saved you a lot of waiting.
Well done.
Greg insisted on putting me on the list. He wouldn’t even take cash. He’s a true professional and a true friend. 1.5 years for first build. 2.5 for second (first Suby Spyder ever) and 1.0 years for last one. I guess I’ve spent 5 years so far being in close contact with him. He knows I took a leap of faith ordering that first one when he was 21 and I had just come to see him after meeting with Chuck Beck. I think he just wants to have my back. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate our friendship.
Oh and by the way he’s going to try to replicate that Emory Pre A as closely as possible including the reverse louvres. Why be creative when I can just copy someone else’s brilliance.
@Stan Galat posted:It surprises me that they didn't start out costing 3x as much as a Speedster. It really is that much more work. Ditto Subaru, which adds another order of magnitude to the complexity.
Because I wanted to have a Subaru engine, and I wanted to spec out a baller 4 speed with LSD with a special case and special ratios, I purchased the engine and trans myself, and that was added onto the cost of a WC car. In today's dollars 'm probably 1.5 times the base turnkey coupe price. No way it makes sense, but I'm so excited for what Greg is cooking for me!
Now when I say 2 or 3 times the work, it's a LOT of extra fiddly stuff: a headliner, dome lights, roll-up side windows (and including those, 5 more windows in total), door frames, door locks, and I also assume that bent window windshield has got to be a bear to install. There's extra sound deadening, and all the interior work has to be done through those small doors. How many guys have sold their cars lately because they can't get in and out of them anymore? Now put a roof on it and do all that wiring, sound deadening installation, window instalations, and interior work through those little openings. No wonder Grumpy is nick-named Grumpy!
Anyway, when Greg and I last talked it looked like we were entering the final stretch where someone gets to wreck their back finishing all that unexciting and difficult work. I haven't been helping much, what wIth my sister's recent death and being crazy busy at work. In fact I have a call from Greg I haven't had a chance to return. I'm going to try to call today. The ball's in my court on that one. It's only 9:00am and the day is already slipping away. Coffee break is over!
@550 Phil posted:Yep Michael I think anyone building during COVID probably added another 6 months to their build. And whatever Greg tells me my delivery time is I’ll add another 6 month. Anxious to see your completed car. Hope to get out to LA some time soon.
@Lane Anderson posted:I'd say at least a year with supply chain problems. I know it did on my build. Indiana had a couple of lock-downs, some people didn't come back, and supplies were problematic, so I think 12 months is the minimum COVID delay.
I climbed in the same boat with my speedster build. Ordered it in Mar. of 2021. Greg said the build would be 10 to 12 months. Didn't see the body until the beginning of Mar 2022. A whole year to wait for the body. The body was then painted and work began to take shape. The engine was built in May of 2022, the chassis was built by Oct of 2022. The body was bolted to the chassis and engine installed in Dec. of 2022. As of Dec 21 I haven't heard a word. We did have a conversation and asked if May 2023 was enough time to have it done. He said that was plenty of time. I sure hope so......... I understand there are setbacks that happen and something's that are out of your control. But a phone call can ofter explain the reason for the delay. So all totaled if the speedster is finished in May it will have taken 26 months to build. So, Lane is right, and in this case 14 to 16 more months to build. I have to say mine is a Subaru build with air/heat and a bunch of extras. Up front I wish I knew it was going to take longer. When the guy driving the boat says it will take 10 to 12 months to build, I believe him. In this case and in other, It is what it is and if I want my dream car, I might have to wait a bit. Like any business, just when you think you have a grip on it, the world throws you a curveball and you have to adjust your swing. Looks like Greg and others are doing that.
I’m thinking I’d like to make the drive to Greg’s shop to see these special cars once finished before the roll out the door. Be sure to announce it when they are about done! And you probably need someone to test drive it first…right?
@550 Phil Dad, maybe that's why you aren't with my mom any longer. Too quick to change models for something flashier
During the Covid "Epidemic" getting parts and supplies from Vendors and Retailers was wildly frustrating, I do this as a hobby and have no idea as to how, Greg and Carey were able to keeps things rolling along .....A testament to dedication ~
@Chris MacDonald posted:@550 Phil Dad, maybe that's why you aren't with my mom any longer. Too quick to change models for something flashier
Saw the ass on that Spyder and dropped your mom like a hot potato 🥔 However I’m keeping my current Spyder. Trying polygamy.
Well, Phil, the coupe and Spyder are sisters. There's not anything wrong with having sisters. I guess especially if they know what's going on.
As long as it's not YOUR sister... And if she's as ugly as a CMC 359, it might also be considered bestiality LOL!
What was the name of that rear engine Spyder. Now that was ugly. The whole beauty of a Spyder is from the rear view. That car looked like it had buttectomy.
Found it. Perry Spyder. Fugly.
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That's a Perry. Full length Beetle pan, so waaaaay bigger than it should be, not to mention awkward proportions.
He is probably one of those guys that can’t fit in a spider and doing all he can to get into one. 
@IaM-Ray posted:He is probably one of those guys that can’t fit in a spider and doing all he can to get into one.
I have contended (and continue to contend) that the world would be ready for a 11/10 Spyder - with a wheelbase about like a Speedster and a cabin 4" longer than a "regular" (which is to say, "stretched") Spyder.
The Perry was an abomination, but something slightly bigger than what has become the norm (which is itself bigger than an original) could be made to look "in scale", in the same way that what we have now looks right to almost everybody's eye.
@Stan Galat posted:I have contended (and continue to contend) that the world would be ready for a 11/10 Spyder - with a wheelbase about like a Speedster and a cabin 4" longer than a "regular" (which is to say, "stretched") Spyder.
The Perry was an abomination, but something slightly bigger than what has become the norm (which is itself bigger than an original) could be made to look "in scale", in the same way that what we have now looks right to almost everybody's eye.
Yes there are certainly a lot of guys on here that are able to fit into the most diminutive models but some absolutely cannot without um... let's say a few ilizarov modifications.
Chuck Beck splashed the original Spyder replica molds. I think he lengthened the passenger compartment I believe by 2 inches. All of the replica spyders were based on Beck’s original copy. I’m 5’7” and my Spyder fits me like a glove. Can you imagine how small the original Spyder passenger compartment was? Didn’t Anand have Beck build a Spyder to original proportions?
Actually it was a MUCH modified CMI that the Beck boys did a wonderful job on.
If you're going to make it longer, you need to increase ALL the dimensions, track width included as well as windshield width and height. 4 inches longer than it already is would be about an 87 inch wheelbase. Stan needs the height for his long-torso shape, otherwise he'd be staring at the upper edge of the screen.
By making it larger in all dimensions, anyone could fit, and there'd be room for full independent suspension, great brakes, and rack and pinion steering. But the weight would go up too, so there's that.
Yeah it gets bigger and less of a bomb so to speak hence the convertible D options we have to choose.
@DannyP posted:Actually it was a MUCH modified CMI that the Beck boys did a wonderful job on.
If you're going to make it longer, you need to increase ALL the dimensions, track width included as well as windshield width and height. 4 inches longer than it already is would be about an 87 inch wheelbase. Stan needs the height for his long-torso shape, otherwise he'd be staring at the upper edge of the screen.
By making it larger in all dimensions, anyone could fit, and there'd be room for full independent suspension, great brakes, and rack and pinion steering. But the weight would go up too, so there's that.
That's exactly what I was babbling about - an 11/10 version.
Yes, the weight would go up, but not so much that it'd offset the baked in goodness of a mid-engined platform. More room would allow so much more to improve - the suspension, the steering, the cabin width - everything.
I did some digging, and found that the wheelbase of a Spyder replica is 85", at least according to the Special Edition website, which is identical to the Speedster (also according to the Special Edition website). The original Speedster is listed as having a 83.75" wheelbase, but most replicas ride the front wheels too far back in the wheelwells with this wheelbase, so 85" is probably pretty darned close. A VW Beetle had a 94.5" wheelbase, which means you'd need to shorten a VW pan between 9.5" and 10.75" to fit the body, depending on what looks right. The "Beck-sized" Spyder is 6" shorter overall than a Speedster, but the wheelbase is similar (which makes sense, I guess).
Making a "super-Spyder" 4" longer than a standard Spyder would make it about the same size as a Speedster length-wise, but with a longer wheelbase than either car.
I went through this once before and decided that it'd be better for me to just stick with a rear-engine Speedster, and build something super-lightweight if I wanted something sportier than what I've got. It also goes a long way toward explaining why Lane doesn't fit in his mid-engine super-coupe, even though that's longer yet (and has a correspondingly longer wheelbase).
There's no free lunch, anywhere.
This is interesting for an odd reason.
Yesterday I got an invite from an old high school friend, Hot Rod Dave, to visit his car collection, so I picked up a mutual friend that I ride bike with, Scott. Scott is a height challenged 6' 3" or so.
Dave showed us his custom, 1940 Studebaker pickup which, because there is no room behind the seats to run the seat back very far, Scott could not fit into it.
Then he showed us his 1932 Ford Roadster built by Boyd Coddington and because there is no room behind the seat to run the seat back, Scott could not fit into it.
In fact, the only things Scott could maybe fit into was Dave's Ariel Atom, (but Scott couldn't contort himself over the roll cage to plunk down into the seat, much less drag himself back out) or Dave's custom, 1940 Ford Panel truck which, because there's nothing behind the seat but open space, he could get the seat way back there and fit into it - But then asked if the steering wheel telescoped closer to the dash.
So 356/550 replicas aren't the only cars height-challenged people can't fit into.
Nice Photoshop, Mitch. Almost to scale...
Stan, I totally get where you're coming from, but maybe a 10.5/10 version? 4 inches on 85" is about that. The original wheelbase was about 83" which is what Anand's Spyder is.
And yeah, that's why footwell/front suspension space is tight. A Spyder replica is 12 foot 2 inches long. Same wheelbase as a Speedster, but shorter overhangs. Plus the engine is flipped around instead of having a back seat. The original wheelbase was about 83" which is what Anand's Spyder is.
I’m 5’7”. When I graduated from high school in 1979 the average height of a grown male in the US was 5’7”. Now the average height of a male in the US is 5’9”. People are getting bigger. In 1955 the average height was more like 5’5” or 5’6”. So yes it would make a lot of sense for someone to do a plus size Spyder. In 2005 I owned a Caterham super 7. With its 210hp Zetec engine and the sweetest 5 speed I’ve ever sampled it would drive circles around my Spyder. But so ugly. I digress. My point is when I ordered my Caterham I had the option of original or plus size. Being now below average I ordered the original. That thing was hard to look at but man could it scoot.
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@550 Phil It’s good to know that at 5’6” I almost made it to “average” height. 🙄
But the good news is that I can fit into just about anything. I might give that Ariel Atom a try, just to see how it scoots……
In 1955 wow, I can’t remember that far but I was only 27inches maybe at that time . There are many English cars that I liked but I could never get in. Another is the Marcos coupe which I thought was a lovely sloping car.
Sanitation, good water and good food seems to have been the biggest factors!
I always felt average out here in flyover country at 6’1. I’ve since lost a half inch, but nowhere near enough to fit in a Spyder. Growing up, my classmates and friends were all 6’ or better.
Not a lot of Irish immigrants in corn country, but lots and lots of Germans.
Sanitation, good water and good food seems to have been the biggest factors
Or maybe the steroids in the meat we eat.
Next time you are at a nice museum looks at the body armor for knights from the 15th and 16th centuries. They are tiny. I could have really kicked some butt in Medieval Times.
Like Phil, I am 5'7" but....still get into the movies at kid's half price :~) and a memorial moment : I slow danced with my 6'1" very well endowed ex sister in-law while she was wearing a low cut dress ~
Alan. You probably do get into movies at a discount. And it probably does have something to do with your age. 😉
@550 Phil posted:Sanitation, good water and good food seems to have been the biggest factors
Or maybe the steroids in the meat we eat.
Next time you are at a nice museum looks at the body armor for knights from the 15th and 16th centuries. They are tiny. I could have really kicked some butt in Medieval Times.
You mean you don’t believe that they actually withdraw the drugs for two weeks before selling us to meat shucks
I have yet to encounter anyone who could not comfortably get behind the wheel of my IM roadster never mind the passenger seat. Even at 75 getting out is not a problem although I am an average height for my generation.
@550 Phil posted:
I’m 5’7”. When I graduated from high school in 1979 the average height of a grown male in the US was 5’7”. Now the average height of a male in the US is 5’9”. People are getting bigger. In 1955 the average height was more like 5’5” or 5’6”. So yes it would make a lot of sense for someone to do a plus size Spyder. In 2005 I owned a Caterham super 7. With its 210hp Zetec engine and the sweetest 5 speed I’ve ever sampled it would drive circles around my Spyder. But so ugly. I digress. My point is when I ordered my Caterham I had the option of original or plus size. Being now below average I ordered the original. That thing was hard to look at but man could it scoot.
All of those heights seems a bit off "short" to me to be the correct average for the years. My grandfather was born in 1895 and was 5'9, other grandfather in 1900 and was 6'4; only the 6'4 would I have thought of as tall. My Dad was born in 1925 and was 5'10 on a good day, maybe 5'9 was more correct and he always seemed quite average in height, anything but tall me me.
My brothers would have both been full grown by the above quoted 1979 and were each 5'10 maybe a touch higher and I would have thought of them as average as well.
I'm 6' flatand know that I'm taller than avg but know a ton of people my height or taller. I would have believed average height for NA males was 5'10 today.
But if someone dies today at 75, we say they went too young. The average male lifespan in Canada is almost 82 (4.5 years older than the US!?) so perhaps it's all relative when we know so many people living to 90+ (my Dad passed at 93, Mom will be 93 in June).
I guess my family has been tall. I may have tried to ruin it marrying a 5'1 lady but my son is 6' so we dodged a bullet 
PS
I have a friend of mine who's 6'9 and his wife is 6'3
They have two sons and the younger is just a hair under 6'11. He'll never know the joy of a Speedser unless he pulls the driver seat and drives from the rear bench....
@Stan Galat posted:Yes, the weight would go up, but not so much that it'd offset the baked in goodness of a mid-engined platform.
I can't imagine the weight would go up much more than it does when scaling up from a Don Knotts to a Dan Blocker. Dan could still dance.
@JMM (Michael) posted:I can't imagine the weight would go up much more than it does when scaling up from a Don Knotts to a Dan Blocker. Dan could still dance.
Dan Blocker was an interesting cat. 6'4", 300 lbs, and loved a bunch of cars he couldn't begin to fit in.
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I thought that Dan Blocker rode a (very stout) Horse?
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source, the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters) during the years 2015 to 2016. That’s about 5 feet 9 inches tall
@550 Phil posted:According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source, the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters) during the years 2015 to 2016. That’s about 5 feet 9 inches tall
Us Northerners know that the poplation is over 6 feet, anecdotal maybe but have you not heard of the lumberjacks I use to see them every day, they are such colossal men with hands that make two of mine and I am not a small guy ...