My New Old JPS Speedster

Nice!

I can't tell from your pictures but that looks like a center-mount shroud/alternator. You need to look underneath at the exhaust system. If the exhaust pipes bolt to the heads at the bottom of the engine, it's a type4 Bus/Porsche 914 engine. If the exhaust is leaving the heads from the sides, as in rear and front of the heads, it's a type1 Beetle-based engine.

Hydraulic lifters could be had in either(I know Bernie Bergmann used to modify engines for them).

On second look it appears that the mechanical fuel pump is in the right location for a type4. Stock 2.0 bore and stroke is 94mm x 71mm.

Beautiful car, and WTTM!

John Steele used that center-mount EMPI fan on his T4 engines back around the turn of the millennium. If I'm not mistaken, a 2.0L T4 made about 70 metric (69 imperial) h/p from the factory... so maybe more than that with the Webers? There are a lot of variables starting with the exhaust (which I suspect is not a 4/1 header) and the heads (which are almost assuredly stock).

There are a lot of details we don't know. It's just hard to say without more information, but unless I'm gravely mistaken - it wouldn't be over 100 hp on a corrected dyno. With the Orange County Correction Factor, that's 120 screamin' ponies in SoCal horsepower.

Underneath a Type 4 - with nice exhaust (as described by Danny)

It chirps the tires in 1st and 2nd. 🙂

Undershot

Definitely a type4.

Oh and by the way, original Pirelli P400 tires.  

@Cartod posted:

Oh and by the way, original Pirelli P400 tires.  

Make sure you check the date code and give those tires a thorough checking to make sure there is no cracking or anything in case they're the original tires.

They are the original tires.  Date code 3101.  They show no sign of cracking or rotting.  The car has been in climate controlled garage since new.  I’m going to run them for a while.  

@Cartod posted:

They are the original tires.  Date code 3101.  They show no sign of cracking or rotting.  The car has been in climate controlled garage since new.  I’m going to run them for a while.  

You do you. Just be aware that they are 21 years old.

Check for cracking between tread segments (and side walls).  The tread rubber will be hard so watch driving in wet conditions.  Long distances will cause overheating of rubber and tire failure.  Guess okay for shows and weekend drives to ice cream store (not me though).  BUT I'd avoid spirited driving.  I can see pushing to 8-10 years --- but not 21 so be very cautious. Tire Manf say 6 years.

I stopped buying costly Michelin tires because they would dry rot before the tread was near gone. 

I don't care how good they look, 5 to 6 years is my limit. Throw them out and buy new ones.

Tires are like how politicians should be, changed often for new ones.

I tend to agree with everyone but I’m stubborn sometimes and like to test the limits just to see for myself.  So far the cornering is impeccable and I’ve had it to 80mph cruising at 3200 rpm’s.  27lbs of air.    Anyway, I’m going to put new ones on now.  Anyone want the old ones? 😀

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...tore-them-correctly/

@WOLFGANG posted:

Underneath a Type 4 - with nice exhaust (as described by Danny)

That is a work of art.  I would like to have this done.  I don’t see any need for the heat system.  I’m not going to drive it much in the winter months.  Did you do this?  

I don't know the origin of that exhaust, but it might be by Tangerine Racing in CT. They make really high quality actually tuned by them exhausts.

Your choices for a T4 true 4/1 header are A1 and… well, A1. Tangerine Racing is a Tri-Y, which has different characteristics, but is certainly a nice bit of kit.

@Cartod posted:

I tend to agree with everyone but I’m stubborn sometimes and like to test the limits just to see for myself.  So far the cornering is impeccable and I’ve had it to 80mph cruising at 3200 rpm’s.  27lbs of air.    Anyway, I’m going to put new ones on now.  Anyone want the old ones? 😀

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...tore-them-correctly/

I know what it's like when they still look and (seem to) perform great, but I'm also glad to hear you're changing them out.  Although seeing P400's on a car would be cool, there'll probably be no warning, you'll be at speed and it could be disastrous.

Tires are cheap.

Not mine, but yes, it is by Tangerine Racing.  There web site doesn't seem to be up - but believe they are still in business.  Seems it was around $1200 years ago.  Adds a good 15% horsepower bump.

I think you picked up a real gem.  The price of those upgrades kind of takes me back.  Paid $19k in 1999 for my turnkey Vintage Spyder with a CB 2109.  Then paid $36k in 2003 for a Vintage Suby Spyder, first Suby Spyder ever.  Building a speedster.  Will pay more for my Type 4 than I did for my first Spyder.  Enjoy.  Get a professional to check out the engine but I think you got a good one.  Love the colors.  Congrats.

@550 Phil posted:

I think you picked up a real gem.  The price of those upgrades kind of takes me back.  Paid $19k in 1999 for my turnkey Vintage Spyder with a CB 2109.  Then paid $36k in 2003 for a Vintage Suby Spyder, first Suby Spyder ever.  Building a speedster.  Will pay more for my Type 4 than I did for my first Spyder.  Enjoy.  Get a professional to check out the engine but I think you got a good one.  Love the colors.  Congrats.

Thank you Phil!  My brother John bird dogged this one for me.  He’s a car nut and lives in Columbus.  He also found me the red 964 behind the speedster.   The engine is definitely a keeper on this car.  I can’t imagine a suby engine behind me!!!!  I really enjoy the low end torque this type 4 produces.  I need an exhaust upgrade mentioned above.    The spyder was my first choice but my height just put me out of that market.  

@Cartod posted:

I tend to agree with everyone but I’m stubborn sometimes and like to test the limits just to see for myself.  So far the cornering is impeccable and I’ve had it to 80mph cruising at 3200 rpm’s.  27lbs of air.    Anyway, I’m going to put new ones on now.  Anyone want the old ones? 😀

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...tore-them-correctly/

A lot of us run lower pressures that the sidewall on the tire states just because these cars a so light. Especially the front end. I run about 18-20psi in the front and 20-24psi in the rear. It helps keep the front end a little more stable in the turns and improves braking, less skidding.

Drive it for little bit and if you find the ride is a little harsh or wanders a little or doesn't hold the corners as well, look at adjusting the air pressure.

As mentioned A1 is your best exhaust option.  My exhaust in my new Type 4 speedster will be an A1.  And please get new tires.  This isn't debatable.  For your own safety, this isn't debatable.

@Cartod posted:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...tore-them-correctly/

I'm more of a risk taker in general, but I agree with Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop, and Continental (as sited in the linked article).

10 years is about it. Less for trailer tires.

@Robert M posted:

A lot of us run lower pressures that the sidewall on the tire states just because these cars a so light. Especially the front end. I run about 18-20psi in the front and 20-24psi in the rear. It helps keep the front end a little more stable in the turns and improves braking, less skidding.

Drive it for little bit and if you find the ride is a little harsh or wanders a little or doesn't hold the corners as well, look at adjusting the air pressure.

Proper air pressure in your Speedster's tires makes a huge difference in both ride, comfort and performance.  Also check if there are any shims behind the bottom tube of the front beam- lowering a VW front beam based car reduces caster.  Not enough caster will cause wander or 'hunting' and make the car harder (and tiring) to drive even at legal freeway speeds.  At anything higher you could be putting your life on the line- a mistake could be very (and I do mean VERY!) final.

If there are no shims under the bottom beam, get a pair of caster shims- http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_384_2917 - (the stock beam bolts are long enough for 1 set) and take them with you when you get your Speedster aligned.  Don't accept "oh, there's a couple of degrees  of caster and it's close to VW's minimum spec, that's enough".  It's not.  For your safety and predictable high speed handling you want 4-5°.

356's were all built with 5° caster and they were all very stable cars at speed.

Hope this helps.  Al  _{(and if you already know all this- please just ignore me)}

Very nice find! Nice engine. As we all know the T-4 engines are very expensive to build these days. I would leave the setup as you have it with the heater provision if it works. It will be a better value moving forward. Just my 2 cents which isn't worth 2 cents..LOL.. I had a unique header on the monster 2.8L T-4 I had built for the 77 Puma I had. It was a stainless 4 into 1 setup sold by Ahnendorp B.A.S. in Germany. Massive power.

I love the look of T4 exhaust "snakes"!  Plus the exhaust notes.  I doubt the heat exchangers do much on CARTODs car.  They look like 412/Bus heat exchangers which get circulating fan air from the pancake engines fan.  Here they are just aimed at the exhaust - so no fan air to force air through them. The 914 also had an electric blower fan to help force air over the heat exchange fins. The upright shroud doesn't have the heater tubes like normal T1s.

I have 2 914 engines (1.8 and 2.0) - they do fit in a Speedster in the pancake format - but don't look very impressive but they could use the 412/bus heat exchangers. The bus's exchangers produce more heat.  The 411/412 were more preheaters (less internal aluminum fins than the bus) to supplement the gas powered heater.  The other alternative if you want engine heated air would be the Joe Cali DIY conversion which combines T1 and T4 cooling pieces cut and pieced to go with an upright cooling shroud. It also still uses the thermostat flaps.

Cali conversion -

@Robert M posted:

A lot of us run lower pressures that the sidewall on the tire states just because these cars a so light. Especially the front end. I run about 18-20psi in the front and 20-24psi in the rear. It helps keep the front end a little more stable in the turns and improves braking, less skidding.

Drive it for little bit and if you find the ride is a little harsh or wanders a little or doesn't hold the corners as well, look at adjusting the air pressure.

One should NEVER blindly run the pressure indicated on the sidewall. That is a MAX pressure and says so on the tire.

Tires only need enough air to support whatever load is placed on them.

For an example about 30 years ago I sold a 68 Beetle to a guy at work. He put 35 pounds in all the tires(max on sidewall). I can't remember rear pressure but the factory front is 18 psi. Rear is 22 or 24 I think. I think the Beetle weighed in the neighborhood of 1800 pounds, similar to most Speedsters.

He got great mileage but almost died from the bouncing, swaying, and general twitchy behavior from the suspension.

Using the “10% Method”* I learned to adapt air pressure on MC tires I arrived at 20/24psi on my Spyder.

*Hot psi = Cold psi + 10%

Well the new Continental tires have arrived.  Having them mounted and balanced tomorrow.  Think I’m going to leave the moon hubcaps off for now.  

What Contis did you get? I’ve run the Extreme and Winter Contacs on my Smart, and really liked them.
Until Vredestein started making their Quadtracs in Smart sizes.

Like an old VW with the engine in the rear, the Smart was unstoppable with those Winter Contacs. About a week after I installed them, this happened.

I had a blast out on the Palisades Parkway (had it pretty much to myself) until a trooper pulled me over and told me to go home and cower in place like the rest of the NY/NJ residents.

Put the new Continental tires on today and took it out for a thrashing 😀.  Rolled over 10k miles and treated myself to a set of Cocomats.  It’s a good day.

Nice; did you get a good deal on the tires? Where did you get them? Are they 165-15s?

Got them on tire rack.  185’s.  They stick like glue.