My New Speedster

Greetings All

Here is my new speedster. I thought you all would get a kick out of that.
If you spin around about 40 times and then you squint just right, It looks like a speedster.

I have caught the bug, and have been researching for quite a while, and decided to dive into the world of speedsters. I just picked up this chassis to rebuild. I'm sure I'll be asking all sorts of stupid questions, but I'm looking forward to the build. It may take me quite a while, but life is about the journey, right. I'm thinking about using Vintage speedster parts. What do you all suggest. I'm doing this on a severe shoe string budget, so I'm all about taking my time and buying one little piece at a time. I'd prefer to get a whole VS kit, but I can't afford the whole thing at once, and I don't want to wait to start wrenching.

I'm planning on buying the body and sub frame at once. I was looking at Rusty Tubs too. is their stuff any good?

Peace
Mark

mark
that looks like vince's ride.
welcome to the club

After my many speedster projects I wonder if it is possible to build on on the cheap? To start with, strip out the chassis ( this will only soct you a few Band Aids) and see what remains.... ~Alan

Mark---I'm pretty sure that'll buff out ok.----Jack

I think it'd be cheaper in the long run to find a little more chassis than that to start with. Good Luck. You're in the right place.

Do you have a DMV title that matches the VIN serial number stamped into rear center tunnel hump - by the removeable inspection plate? If not you will have great difficulty registering it so you can drive it on the road. (The matching VIN plates from front trunk and windshield would be helpfull too!) Can't say I've seen one with the floor panel that gone but $200 will buy replacment pans and they have to be cut to shorten anyhow. You might opt for the heavier $300 ones. If the front frame head or piece under that is rusted out - then your welding increases greatly (I'd find a new chassis).

I find RT to be costly (at least on OEM patina parts). It does not appear their bodies include a sub steel frame - so they are more inteneded for some one building a custom tubular frame. I'd look for an unfinished kit or one finished but registerable because it had no DMV title. Look on Craigslist, ebay, the SAMBA and here in classified - where are you located as there are pockets where unfinished ones seem to hide.

A shoe string budget needs to be at least $10k. Crating/shipping is a quick $1-2k. It adds up quickly. I'd be cautious of buying pieces one at a time as some parts are difficult to find and could be a costly show stopper.

Wow, Mark.....A lot of info, and some of it intimidating, but don't lose faith. Wolfgang brings up some really good points, but maybe the most important is, Where are you located? There may be people nearby who share your passion and want to help out with knowledge, labor, parts or whatever (sometimes a shoulder to cry on is needed, too).
;>)

For instance, I live in the Southeast, have a car-hauler trailer and would be willing to entertain a road trip to go get something and move it elsewhere for you if you pay the fuel. That's a lot better than the $1K - $2K it might cost to ship something somewhere. I'm also one of the first to arrive somewhere (Southeast in Winter, New England in Summer) to help out a fellow "Speedstah Guy".

The best thing you can do you've already started: Get familiar with us and the help we can all provide. It's the biggest Speedstah value on the Internet. Ask questions, get answers and gain knowledge. There are easy and hard ways to do everything on these kits. We can help you every step of the way.

The second best thing you can do is to try to make it to either Morro Bay or Carlisle for the Speedster gatherings. There, you'll see how others have built their kits, ask LOTS of questions, get LOTS of info and return home both energized and a new set of contacts to help you out (and we all have a great time at those meets, too!)

Lastly; "Welcome to the Madness!!"

Gordon
The "Speedstah Guy from Beaufort
Organizer of "Speedsters Meet Spyders at Carlisle, 2009"

Thanks everyone for the great comments, concerns and for not laughing out loud.
I'll post the progress as it goes along.

I know it's really really rough, but it what I've got. That's why they make angle grinders right.

I think my shoestring comment was misleading. I know this is not going to be cheap, I just don't have the money to buy the VS kit all at once, so I'm going to have to order it one piece at a time. It will probably end up costing me more in the long run, but that's ok.

That being said, if anyone has a line on a used body and subframe, please let me know.


Thanks again for the support.
mark

Mark,

Keep the faith, I had a chassis 2 months ago that looked like yours. I will post some photos later as to how it looks today...big improvement in a short amount of time and work...sandblasting and powder coating improve things quickly...

Looks like Fred and Barney will be needed for braking....

Welcome to the madness and "that shit'll buff out"

here is the start of mine after I removed the pans...don't need pans as I have a built in fiberglass floor

Been there - done that a good number of times....funny how all of a sudden, it all comes together and you have a refurbished chassis!
Enjoy.. ~Alan

You never stated your location - here's body kit on ebay currently for $1125 in CA (Calif). Doubt you'll find complete kit for less than that. Item #290294198730

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TYPE-PORSCHE-SPEEDSTER-356-FIBER-GLAS-BODY-KIT_W0QQitemZ290294198730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOther_Vehicle_Parts?hash=item290294198730&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Doesn't look like it has the 2 x 4 steel box frame

Mark, welcome to the Madness. You are absolutely in the right place. All that caked-on mud and grease is a GOOD thing. All it's going to take to get that off is a putty knife and some shop rags. Get yourself a good portable stereo, some 50s music -- that Gordon's probably got in spades -- and then settle down for some long evenings with a couple friends.
You'll be surprised how a little elbow grease and some virtual motivation from this site will help you through the process of building a car from scratch. Finding a pal who's willing to help and knowledgeable about Volkswagens is important, but not crucial at this stage of the game.
You've got a few hard-to-locate pieces on that chassis -- your $200 or so was money well spent; usually the cost of entry is a good deal higher.
I kind of envy you a little. You're going to make exactly what YOU want. You'll remember every single nut and bolt. Every scrape of the scraper stands to reveal something new. I think you're going to find that under all that gunk, there's a beautiful frame head, some fantastic rear blades and a decent transaxle. You're way ahead of where I was when I was you three years ago.
Good luck!

Greetings All

Thanks for all the support.

I spent the weekend with a wire brush. There is a ton of dirt on that thing. It spent it previous live as a baja bug, so that's why it's so muddy.

I got the transmission, cv joints, pedals, and quite a few various other things off of the chassis this weekend. (My rear 36mm axel nut is sooooo stuck...but that's a post for another day)

As I was staring at the chassis tunnel, (do you guys do that, just sit and stare at the thing) I started wondering about the best way to shorten the pan. My plan is to put new floor pans in, and basically restore the chassis, then cut the floor pans and tunnel at once, like the cmc manual on-line says.

As I was reading all of the nice replies, I noticed that Jim was cutting his tunnel/chassis without the floor pans in it. He mentioned that he has a fiberglass floor. is that why you're doing it that way Jim?

It's easier for me to wrap my brain around restoring first, chopping second, but if it's easier, or better to cut the chassis first, then cut the floor pans to fit in, then I'm all for that.

Just wanted to know what you all thought about that.

Have a great day

Mark

Mark,

I would recommend doing all the cutting alignment and rewelding before you clean it up. The cutting grinding, rewelding and the like is messy and is likely do undo a lot of work done already. I will publish some photos here, but I have also loaded some more that you can check out under "tmpusfugit" in the photo section. Managing the tubes for the heater controls, the accellerator linkage, the clutch tube, the gas line, etc can be "difficult" I also cut out the emergency / parking brake assembly which gave me a lot more access to reconnect the other tubes. I ended up butt welding mine rather than overlapping flaps that are sometimes recommended. If your pans are bad I would cut them out completely, shorten the center tube as you best see fit, align the parts, reweld the shortened tube completely then shorten the pans, then weld them back in. The pans do not provide much structural strenght, if any, but obviously needed...just much easier to add them after the other work is done IMO.

here are some shots of what you need to do in one fashion or another.

more

I took the other approach of removing the old floors, cleaning up the frame (pan), then installing the new floors and refurbishing the rest of the chassis before I cut it up.

Cut it the same as the CMC manual shows and welded it with the same overlaps and felt it would be easier with the floors in (I don't know.....six of one, half dozen of the other). I also welded both inside and outside of the tunnel joint as best I could, getting around the tubes.

I only torched/cut the tube tack welds at the very rear of the central tunnel, then slid the tubes out the back when the pan was cut in two, rewelded them when the pan halves were re-joined, cut them off to the original lengths beyond the tunnel and welded them to the same weld points as original. That way I didn't have to mess with anything regarding the tubes inside of the tunnel. Didn't change anything with the E-brake, shifter or heater levers. Easy-Peasy.

Not saying Jim's way is right or wrong, just two different approaches.

I suspect Gordon is correct, there are different ways to do the job. To say one is better than the other is not productive. I used what fit my tools and perceived solution best. I found the CMC / Fiberfab instructions a bit uninformative or less than completely helpful

Since I went for sandblasting and powder coating, I needed to complete all the cutting and welding before that. Mine was a bit of a mess, full of dirt, rust, junk, etc.

The next one I do I will cut it with a thin abrasive cut off tool instead of using a plasma torch. After doing the big cuts with plasma I did smaller cuts with a 1/16" thick abrasive disk in an angle grinder...it worked far better than the plasma, didn't require nearly as much clean up grinding etc...

I completely removed the gas line, it was rusted nearly in two pieces anyhow, I also cut off the 4 heater control tubes as they are about the last thing I need in Houston, and did as Gordon suggests on the clutch tube and the accelerator tubes. I had to cut the emergency cable tubes and rejoined them with a bit of slip over tube and then brazed them. The next time I will attempt to free them at the outboard ends and slide them out also and reweld or braze.

JIm's right: You have to inventory your available tools and skills and do whatever you need to, to get the job done - it's going to be a little different for each person.

I tried using my Oxy/acetyelene torch on mine, but quickly gave up on that for the same reason: LOTS of melted metal, slag and clean-up along the edge.

So I switched to my favorite tool of all - my Sawzall reciprocating saw. The nice thing about that is you can hold the blade along the outside of the tunnell and just break through the metal and not hit the tubes within. Made a BIG difference. The end result was probably the same as using an angle cut-off wheel without as much dust. I think I even went out and bought a Sawzall just for that purpose and have since used it for LOTS of stuff! I just remembered using a small, air-powered cut-off wheel on some of the more difficult parts that didn't lend themselves to the Sawzall, too.

Jim's comment about the CMC directions (right on, BTW) got me thinking and I remembered using a pan shortening article I read in one of the Kit Car Mags (sorry, can't remember which one after 15 years!) which had a little more detail, PICTURES(!) and did the overlap at the joint a bit differently. I think their technique was almost the same as what I've seen on the Meyers Manx site, so that might serve the purpose, too. I'll be doing my new pan sometime later this year and will make a DIY article out of the process for others....

I looked all through my stash of old magazines when at the other house and couldn't find it, so I guess I tossed it. Maybe someone else can remember where that pan shortening article was or even has a copy they can share???

gn

Good morning-Here's something I bookmarked re: pan shortening:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134758&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
(dimensions to be adjusted for your body type of course)

as you may note on some of my photos there is a site with some fair number of different approaches for shortening chassis that can be found in detail at www.vwspyder.nl

My Dutch is not so good but the photos make up for it. Unfortunately I found this site after I shortened mine, I think it could have saved me some headaches. Also the samba site certainly helps too, as does Gordons suggestions. I also did some cutting with a sawsall, and perhaps it was the best tool for much of the cutting. I can say with complete conviction my plasma cutter was a very bad idea....won't do that again...

The precise amount of metal to be removed is different from car to car. I beleive CMC and Fiberfab say the chassis needs to be shortened by 11.8" which is pretty close in my case. I would recommend care in making the measurements and verifying them, then making a couple of bars as suggested in the instructions (I used angle iron, not 2x4's)to hold the distances while doing tack welds, checking alignment, then welding up completely. A bit of care and thinking and rethinking before cutting and then before final welding is good, and I certainly did find myself just standing, looking, and contemplating more than on most projects. However, when I dug in it didn't take long at all. I did read with some amusement on the samba link about the guy was going to charge $1000 for the next one he shortened. I think I spent about 20-30 hrs messing around and thinking on this one, the next one I suspect I could do in about 4 hours.....now that I have a much better idea of what I will find, what has to be done, and what NOT to do the next time....

www.vwspyder.nl has an English version listed on the home page.

don't use that. if you have some money ready i found a intermeccanica running complete but could use some correct interior. he was on craigslist started at $15500 weeks ago. now at 12000,and willing to take 11000 with stock rims. pm. aloha

Don't despair Mark; you'll be alright. Make sure you use the heavy gauge pans. Even if the bulkhead is rusted out you can replace it with a new one. Make sure you blast the chassis and re-finish it well.

Hey All

Just a little update.

I finally have gotten the chassis stripped down. I'm ordering floor pans in a couple of weeks.

This is not a hobby for anyone looking for a quick fix, that's for sure, but it's been a lot of fun so far.

peace
mark

Mark! More power to you with your project, my brutha! Stay the course and keep your eye on the prize!

Make sure that you get heavy gauge pans and not the crap many aftermarket retailers aare passing off as German or Danske sourced.

I remember those days -- you'll get there, Bro!

Thanks everyone. I'm thinking about ordering the Garage Pro pans from JC Whitney. I just figure they are a reputable company.

I wish I could order pans without the seat hump already welded in. I'm going to have to remove that. Does anyone know of a company that sells the pans without the seat hump or jack port pre installed?

Mark,
Just be sure of what you are getting, don't assume that a big box company has the best item for the buck because, that just isn't so.

Easy ro remove the spot welds on the seat tracks, grind until they turn blue and pry under the spot weld, it will release. Cut and grind the jack saddles, this all should take about an hour or so. ~Alan