My Outlaw Speedster is live on Bring A Trailer

I'm really sorry, Al. This one was special. The car hammered at $50k. There were no last minute bids, in fact there were only two bids in total.

@cwazy1 posted:

The vast majority of people will have no idea. The majority of people who are bidding on these things on BaT will think this is somewhat similar to a VMC only in terms of general spec and low miles. The fact that it ISNT a VMC is only going to hurt its value. If you look at auction results, everything over 70k in the last 3 years has been a VMC.

It's strange to me, but BaT is in love with VMC Speedsters, and VMC only.

The long money cars on BaT have all been VMC speced and sold by Cloud 9. We've missed our guess (on the high side) on every other car that a member sells. When Lane's super-coupe brought $65k, I could read the tea-leaves. That car was playing a completely different game, and it sold at least $20k low.

Intermeccanicas, Becks, random CMCs - none of them bring what a pan-built car from Greg sells for.

It is what it is.

"And so it goes"  and we are all a bit more educated. I was anticipating a wild home run but know that VS & VMC pan based classic speedsters are what people are willing to shell out top $70k plus for. I covered my tail with a reserve, that was met & I'm good on this Outlaw deal even with the extra time and effort.

Once again I am baffled and flabbergasted at the BaT market.  Stan is, of course, correct.  The BaT audience has it in their collective head that Vintage cars are at the top.  They are fine machines, but they are limited by their technology.  That clearly doesn’t matter to most buyers.  I can’t come up with a rational explanation as to why.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Once again I am baffled and flabbergasted at the BaT market.  Stan is, of course, correct.  The BaT audience has it in their collective head that Vintage cars are at the top.  They are fine machines, but they are limited by their technology.  That clearly doesn’t matter to most buyers.  I can’t come up with a rational explanation as to why.

Because most of them have more money than brains???

@ALB posted:

Because most of them have more money than love for cars

Fixed it. They have money and no idea what they're looking at. VMC has a reputation for being a good BaT investment, so VMC it is.

They're nice cars, for sure. They're not 50% nicer than anything else - but that's what they bring.

Kirk Duncan Vintage Speedsters do "OK" because there is confusion around the entire "Vintage" name - it's the guys who bought a new car for $25K 10 years ago, who can sell them now for $50K who are the real winners in the BaT game. A new VMC speedster is a pricey thing - you'd have to get $75K - $80K for one to equal the return on a 10 year old Kirk-'n-Mary car.

It's a bubble, team.

For some unexplained reason, I’m wondering if the winning bidder will actually follow through.

@Stan Galat- Ok, I laughed out loud at that- dinner almost ended up on the keyboard!

Car deserved more money.  But a low mile/4 mile car without multiple YouTube driving videos will never get top dollar. Authentic or replica.

I can tell you that I'd rather have Alan's car than just about any other, including my own beloved, custom built, clown car. The market is uninformed.

@Michael Pickett posted:

I can tell you that I'd rather have Alan's car than just about any other, including my own beloved, custom built, clown car. The market is uninformed.

Same here.

The person who bought it got a great deal.  I thought it would go north of 60-65k for sure.  Could the higher prices for the VMCs be due to their "closer to original factory" spec and look vs Alan's speced out build with different parts and look?

50 is a bit low, but not terribly surprising as it could have swung either way and with the slump in market, people are less willing to spend money right now. It very well could have gone for more if the right bidders were in play. To the untrained eye, this one looks kinda like a VS on the interior, which would fetch around where it hammered.

I'm not sure why people are surprised that VMCs fetch the higher values? Its the same as Superformance vs Backdraft vs Kirkham vs FFR.. Having a reputable builder who is still in business and has a fantastic reputation as well as customer service is a huge bonus for resale and value. People are always going to be more apprehensive of build quality if it was done in someone's garage or built by someone who is out of business and replacement parts are hard to source. VMC is also continuously increasing prices and continues to hold a 18-24month backlog. This pulls up the prices on used cars, along side C9's continuously well positioned cars in the marketplace.

I'm in the market for a Daytona Coupe and a GT40.. would I opt for a garage built one, even to save 100k? absolutely not. I'll spend 160k for a Daytona and 250k for a gt40 from Superformance. I can also be guaranteed that money back when I'm bored of them and ready to move on. I would have a much harder time and more likly to take a hit if I got a garage built FFR, or even a builder car from an out of business company like ERA or CAV.

There are people who are sentimental about their cars and there are those who aren't. The ones who are tend to value the fine details, the intricacies and assign a value to that. The ones who don't see it as a P&L statement, or a transaction.  BaT is full of the latter and this forum is full of the former.

@pkdfw posted:

The person who bought it got a great deal.  I thought it would go north of 60-65k for sure.  Could the higher prices for the VMCs be due to their "closer to original factory" spec and look vs Alan's speced out build with different parts and look  fact that most people who frequent  BaT are idiots  don't know their asses from a hole in the ground  don't know that much about cars?

Exactly!  _{although I agree with the first 2 suggestions as well}

I tend to agree with @cwazy1, and frankly echo most of your comments. While I may not know Alan per se, he has developed quite a reputation on this forum. I’ve only followed this forum closely for 6 years, and wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a car from him.
For whatever reason, people with $50k+ to spend on BaT don’t want to put in the research. They rather go with the known. I get it. I’ve seen some real shoddy home built speedsters, I’m sure we all have.
C9C knows the formula to attract the big money. They know the BaT buyer. They option the car to meet that formula and stick with colors they know will sell.  Prior to C9C, “Daniel550” locked in to the market, drawing large sums of money for the speedsters he sold. In addition to optioning the VMC cars just right for BaT, Daniel550 hired a professional photographer to win over potential bidders. The photos the professionals took of these cars are worthy of being displayed on our walls.
I’ve seen an older VS get over $75k on BaT.  My only rationale was the professional photos.
Given most bidders can’t see the vehicles in person, you need to pull out the stops. Have professionals take the photos and driving videos. That’s like the alcohol at the auction houses. It forces people to bid purely on emotion.

@cwazy1 posted:

There are people who are sentimental about their cars and there are those who aren't. The ones who are tend to value the fine details, the intricacies and assign a value to that. The ones who don't see it as a P&L statement, or a transaction.  BaT is full of the latter and this forum is full of the former.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but cwazy is 100% correct.

Guilty as charged.

It's a good thing I don't get bored easily, because I'm upside down on my cars, my house(s), and my business. A sentimental guy doesn't care, because the value he assigns to the objects of his affection goes well beyond filthy lucre. If a thing is cool to me, it will be cool to me whether or not the market assigns great or little value to it.

You can approach this hobby from a sentimental perspective, or from a business perspective, but not from both - and that is our problem here.

We want it both ways.

@Stan Galat posted:

I hadn't thought of it that way, but cwazy is 100% correct.

Guilty as charged.

It's a good thing I don't get bored easily, because I'm upside down on my cars, my house(s), and my business. A sentimental guy doesn't care, because the value he assigns to the objects of his affection goes well beyond filthy lucre. If a thing is cool to me, it will be cool to me whether or not the market assigns great or little value to it.

You can approach this hobby from a sentimental perspective, or from a business perspective, but not from both - and that is our problem here.

We want it both ways.

I learned a long long time ago a product (house, car, etc.) is only worth what the buyer will pay, not what the seller thinks it’s worth.

The good thing is that can play well for either the seller or the buyer depending on the market.

Me too Mayo, but that wasn't my point. My point was that these can be objects of sentimentality and desire or investment instruments - but almost never both.

@pkdfw posted:

The person who bought it got a great deal.  I thought it would go north of 60-65k for sure.  Could the higher prices for the VMCs be due to their "closer to original factory" spec and look vs Alan's speced out build with different parts and look?

I agree on upper pricing.  It has the advanced suspension/engine and "hip" look with the side air intakes and hard tonneau - plus very sellable colors.  I don't think the Outlaw look kept the price down - but it did limit the biding audience.

Definitely has the Emory look - so probably needed an upfront buyer before completion to get top $.  Maybe it needed a few Emory references - throw in an Emory T-shirt?  I wish I had sent the DR my unused fake outlaw grill badge!

Thank you for the positive comments ! A few of things stymied the hammer price, my inexperience on BaT, the initial $40k bid as a number of lower bids would probably kept the momentum going,  the non-pedigree name and not knowing the driving video link was dead on BaT until just 28 minutes were left. Hopefully the Buyer will follow through and as a backup the lower bidder emailed me today stating if the buyer hic cups, he'll take it for the hammered amount.

So. . . Alan, how much you paying yourself per hour?

I know zero about BaT system, but I suppose that you set a minimum below which you will not sell.  So the deal is up to you, mostly.

On to next . . .

Actually, BaT proposes a reserve. You can lobby to increase it. They might bump it up $1,000. Might not. If you accept their proposed reserve, they list it. If not, not.

@edsnova posted:

Actually, BaT proposes a reserve. You can lobby to increase it. They might bump it up $1,000. Might not. If you accept their proposed reserve, they list it. If not, not.

So then, very much like protesting a real estate tax assessment. It's a game with the board tilted away from the seller.

The house always wins. Given that their investment is so vanishingly small, and the descriptions they write/provide are almost never 100% correct, I'd say it's a pretty good gig for BaT.

In this, the internet age, platform is king. But it's also true at any auction house, right?

@edsnova posted:

Actually, BaT proposes a reserve. You can lobby to increase it. They might bump it up $1,000. Might not. If you accept their proposed reserve, they list it. If not, not.

In my case we proposed a reserve (originally of $75k) that we expected them to reject in favor of a lower one.  We were both surprised when they didn't push back, but I eventually had to lower it to $63,500 to get the car to sell at $65k.

@edsnova posted:

In this, the internet age, platform is king. But it's also true at any auction house, right?

Everytime I have seen some large consolidation happen where integrity or service is somewhat in question there is always a new expression that develops in the marketplace.  At the heart of man is a desire for perfection and integrity ... well if your a conservative

The Outlaw Speedster has left for central California to the new 80 y/o owner.   It took nearly two weeks to get funded, UPS lost and finally found the Two Day Envelope some five days later and the BOS signed etc.  I drove the car all out.. the last mile to meet the transport truck (that Troy uses) that was fun !