It has begun. 2650cc with 911 shroud and “new” 48 Dellortos.
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That's a thing of beauty.
-=theron
Outstanding Phil!!!
Looks nice, Phil!
Good luck, Phil!
Gonna be a stump puller I'm sure, Phil. Question: You're not expecting this by the Tour de Smo', are you? I'm thinking you'll be in the Spyder.
I think it’s unlikely I’ll get the IM by the end of September. If the weather isn’t great I won’t be in the Spyder. Sold my trailer after back surgery. I’m only 2.5 hours away. So if the weather report for Wednesday and Sunday are promising I’ll drive the Spyder.
Nice Phil refresh my memory are you using a five speed tranny or a Rancho four speed. I have no clue if there are RPM requirements for cooling on a type four at cruising speed,
Ray. I'm using a 4-speed. My last IM had a 4-speed. It was fine. Can't really go much less than 3000 rpms and still keep the engine cool. But I guess the 914 had a 5-speed and it cooled well. However, I'm not sure if a 2650 would cool well in a 914. One thing I do know is that I'm going to have a huge oil cooler. Its finally starting to feel real.
I drove Miko’s car and it had a 2332cc with a 901 in a speedster and essentially you had a dog leg 1st, (we never got wet though) and a close ratio 2nd 3rd and 4th was essentially an OD same as a 4 speed. The rowing was fun. He sold it to Henry who subsequently sold it fully renewed to Bob. You can ask Bob he lived with it for a while.
Phil, what is the gearing in the transmission? With all the torque that motor is going to make, you can use a really tall first-second mainshaft.
I'm not really sure. The car is a 2000 Intermeccanica. The car was delivered with a 1600cc Type 1 so it probably has a 3.88 R&P with standard gearing. I guess if the tranny blows up with the new beastly T4 I'll upgrade. With the torque I'll have I can probably go with a 3.44 R&P 4-speed. I'll probably also research using a 901 or 915 5-speed. The cost of the car is getting up there so I think I'll see how the current 4-speed works.
In a tube-frame IM set up for a VW 4-sp, converting to a 5 sp. is a huge deal.
With the torque that thing will make, 4 will be fine. You’ll definitely want custom gearing.
Maybe I should bite the bullet and build a new transmission. Engine is going to be about 185hp and 230ft-lbs. What do think Stan? Danny? What kind of RPMs will I need to keep the engine cooled at 70mph? Assuming a 3.44 R&P.
Well the car is over there... yes? it is half a day of work to R&R yes? and who is going to do it in VA.?
I had a 3.44 it was ok with a 2110cc but around 40 miles an hour I could be in 3rd or in 4th depending and it was kind of a funny place to be but with your torque I would think a Rancho type, to handle the HP and torque, that Carey uses would do well but, I cannot comment on the gear ratios .
Hey you should have an idea with 180hp in your spyder even if the IM is bit heavier it is close to 180hp. Yes? I think your tranny in your spyder will do fine ....
Just saying.
@Stan Galat posted:In a tube-frame IM set up for a VW 4-sp, converting to a 5 sp. is a huge deal.
With the torque that thing will make, 4 will be fine. You’ll definitely want custom gearing.
Didn’t Anthony the mechanic in Auburn California I want to say convert one and found it was a heck of a lot of work?
@IaM-Ray posted:Didn’t Anthony the mechanic in Auburn California I want to say convert one and found it was a heck of a lot of work?
Yes, more than you know, although I’m halfway to what needs to be done at present.
@Stan Galat posted:Yes, more than you know, although I’m halfway to what needs to be done at present.
Do tell. … curious minds want to know. 
I’m not doing a five speed. I can’t get the things done I want to do the way it is.
I just love all those nice new clean shiny bits. Get a guy who REALLY knows how to fit them all together, and it can be so sweet. No skimping, please: port, polish, and if it says go plus nothing, minus just an RCH, then its definitely got to be plus nothing. Balanced to a nonce. I hope to see and hear it some day. Keep us posted.
In my car with a 3.44 gear, I'm 70mph at 3000 rpm. I have 15in wheels 185X65X15 tires, 24.4 tall
Hope that give you some idea of RPM
I believe all of that with a 3.88 is a touch over 60 mph.
@Butcher Boy posted:In my car with a 3.44 gear, I'm 70mph at 3000 rpm. I have 15in wheels 185X65X15 tires, 24.4 tall
Hope that give you some idea of RPM
That’s exactly what I want. Those are my tire size. Do you know your gear ratios?
@550 Phil posted:Maybe I should bite the bullet and build a new transmission. Engine is going to be about 185hp and 230ft-lbs. What do think Stan? Danny? What kind of RPMs will I need to keep the engine cooled at 70mph? Assuming a 3.44 R&P.
I missed this. Absolutely.
There have been countless threads on gear ratios, but the cheapest/easiest trans for an engine like yours would be a late (super) mainshaft, 1.3 3rd, a .93 4th, and a 3.44 RP.
@550 Phil posted:That’s exactly what I want. Those are my tire size. Do you know your gear ratios?
Phil, Off the top of my head I don't. I would have to ask Greg to refresh my memory .
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I love seeing the pictures of Pat’s shop. Everything spic and span!
Phil, the motor is going to rock!
Oh my!! As they say: you cant take it with you, so you may as well give a big hunk of it to Pat. Excellent choices here.
I’m going to have the transmission rebuilt. Current transmission has standard gearing with a 4.11 R&P. Not going to work with a stump pulling T4. Transmission has less than 10k original miles. Might be as simple as cleaning it up and swapping the 4.11 for a 3.44 R&P.
@550 Phil posted:I’m going to have the transmission rebuilt. Current transmission has standard gearing with a 4.11 R&P. Not going to work with a stump pulling T4. Transmission has less than 10k original miles. Might be as simple as cleaning it up and swapping the 4.11 for a 3.44 R&P.
That's not a bad move. Stock gears there are 3.80 (or 3.78?), 2.20, 1.26, .93. The 3.44 R&P will give you, depending on tires, about 36 mph in 1st, 60-65 in second, 100ish in 3rd and 140 in 4th, assuming a 6,000 rpm redline. That's 19-32-50-70 at 3,000.
@IaM-Ray posted:
That's what specs I used with another tranny builder and it worked well for my Soob conversion.
@edsnova posted:That's not a bad move. Stock gears there are 3.80 (or 3.78?), 2.20, 1.26, .93. The 3.44 R&P will give you, depending on tires, about 36 mph in 1st, 60-65 in second, 100ish in 3rd and 140 in 4th, assuming a 6,000 rpm redline. That's 19-32-50-70 at 3,000.
Guessing the gearing in any VW transmission these days is a fools game, as most have likely been rebuilt. That said, a 4.12 trans would likely have 3.80, 2.06, 1.26, 0.89.
VW never had a 2.20 second gear, and a .93 4th gear was only used with the 3.88 r&p.
As @Stan Galat suggested, a late model 3.78/2.06 mainshaft, paired with a 1.32 3rd and a .93 4th, along with a 3.44 r&p will be a nice combination without having to buy a $1200 Weddle mainshaft.
@IaM-Ray posted:
This build is for an existing IM engine swap I believe.
Since EPA doesn't allow us to be involved with trans anymore, it is up to the client who to use, and 99% of my aircooled clients still use Rancho, and I do for anything VW personnel. I build my own 901 and 915 in house.
Anyway, hidden costs in what is pasted above: core charges are astronomical these days, I want to say $900? Shipping and crating obviously, $300-ish.
As for the posted specs, I personally won't put much more than 150hp through a pro-street, any more than that and we step up to a pro-drag and you can expect 2x cost on that.
Thanks. Lots of good information. Yes Greg says I have to work directly with and pay for transmission work separate from his work. Glad I investigated the original tranny. Don’t think it’s up to the task. I’ll let you guys know what the plan is when tranny builder calls me. At least I won’t have core and transportation charges.
That is great information to know!
@550 Phil posted:Thanks. Lots of good information. Yes Greg says I have to work directly with and pay for transmission work separate from his work. Glad I investigated the original tranny. Don’t think it’s up to the task. I’ll let you guys know what the plan is when tranny builder calls me. At least I won’t have core and transportation charges.
It's not.
Buy once, cry once.
@edsnova posted:That's not a bad move. Stock gears there are 3.80 (or 3.78?), 2.20, 1.26, .93. The 3.44 R&P will give you, depending on tires, about 36 mph in 1st, 60-65 in second, 100ish in 3rd and 140 in 4th, assuming a 6,000 rpm redline. That's 19-32-50-70 at 3,000.
Stock 1st- 2nd are 3.80/3.78- 2.06. I believe VW made the change from 3.80 to 3.78 in late '72 and 2nd has never changed, from 1961? on. 3rd gear from 1967(?) on is 1.26 ( earlier was 1.31) and at this time the 4.125 r&p was also introduced, with all type 1 transaxles still using the .89 4th. When the 3.88 r&p started being used, Beetles got the .93 4th gear while the Karmann Ghia (with it's better aerodynamics) was able to keep the .89.
The 2.25 2nd was never stock in the type1 4speed transaxle- drag racers found them in some Beetle (and KG, I guess) semi automatic transaxles and of course they make a great close ratio 2nd, but the 2.06 has to be cut off your mainshaft (it's 1 piece with both 1st and 2nd stuck on from the factory) and then the auto 2nd welded on. It's a lot of work to do it right and Berg used to charge about $500 for this, with you providing the appropriate parts. The 2.25 is hard to find, as there was never a lot of semi-auto transaxles out there and my understanding is there were 2 different gear sets used, so they're not even in every semi-auto trans. I see now they have it listed in their catalog for $950- https://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=12_369 I don't know if those are modified stock pieces or aftermarket.
The 2.25 did come stock in some Brazilian commercial vehicles (the Hormega?), which could be where the drag racing community first took notice of it? Anyway, I think that's all I know... Al
Al is right about the first gear thing and the 4th gear thing. I believe the switch to the 3.78 first gear happened about the same time as the switch to the single side cover trans case. This was only IRS.
I have a 1.32 3rd I pulled from an old trans. I welded the synchro hub to the gear and ground it smooth. It's either that or the Weddle 1.30 when I get my mountain gearbox going. I've heard from others and saw myself that the factory gears are quieter.
To refresh, it's 3.44 1st, 1.93 2nd, and 1.0 4th with a 3.44 R&P.
in my 2004 IM with 3:44. I don’t know if all the stars aligned not sure I even believe in that but it was an extremely quiet tranny. I bought the car with 28,000 km and the master builder commented on the quietness of that tranny at the time he was using someone whose name I cannot remember. I think he mentioned he was an old guy lol