My Vintage Speedster Chinese built tach

Terry.....   While waiting, you might try grounding the tach case....  Several members have had the internal ground "go away" for no apparent reason...

It is  "given." The tachs are crap right out of the box. If you have no problems with your tach, chalk it up to luck. If the problem is directly related to the tach itself, send it to North Hollywood or to Palo Alto. Both do a good job at repairing the instrument. Count on at least $150, though. My tach, with 12,000 miles on it, has an odometer that lags the mileage listed on the speedometer, so I don't use the odometer. One of these days, I'll take it to Palo Alto and have it fixed.

I'm in the process of installing my three gauges.  I don't know about Vintage, but with my IM there isn't much room back there to attach the gauges.  At my age lying on my back, with my head in the foot well, is a real PITA.

Wait for the new gauge from Kirk.  If that doesn't work do what Barry recommended.  I had North Hollywood recalibrate my speedo, tach, and oil temp gauges, change my mph face to kph, and install LED lighting.

It's great that Kirk's sending a replacement tach.  I had a wildly bouncing tach I sent to North Hollywood a year ago and it's working well. 

1)  The tach slides out the front.  There are two right angle bars that screw to the back of the tach and hold it against the dash.

2)  The wires for the oil pressure, alternator, and instrument lights were a bit tight but there was enough slack that it was not impossible to reconnect them.

3)  My tach was around 6 years old but several people, not just VS owners, have had problems over the years with the repro tachs going wonky in one way or another.   

A couple of notes about removing and replacing the tach:

* I used tape to mark wires I thought I might mix up and took photos of the back of the tachometer before disconnecting it.    

* I made the mistake of not mailing the tach to North Hollywood with all the bulbs in it and it came back with the indicator lights misaligned (the tach itself worked perfectly when checked against a tach-dwell meter).  North Hollywood took care of the problem quickly.

Good luck!

I made detailed diagrams when I took out my gauges, but I still had some "what the F" moments when I re-installed my gauges.  I blame it on short term memory and old age. 

I just re-installed my gas/temp. gauge.  Boy, that gauge have a lot of wires!

A small monkey might help, or not.  It depends on the monkey and how it's feeling that day.   

Yup those China tachs r crap! had a few now! even fitted blocking diodes to stop any feed back  but still only last about 9 months 

I second what all the guys have said; those Chinese repro tachs have a failure rate of about 95%. It happened to me back in 2004 when I ordered my car new; the tach was not working when the car was delivered form the shop; period. Kirk sent another one that worked for a while and then started going weird getting wiggly, etc. so I decided to send it to North Hollywood Speedometer. They replaced the innards with a VDO mechanism for around $160.00; that was 7 or 8 years ago and it's still working fine. I suggest you go that route.

It seems to me that since tach failures are almost guaranteed to take place---even on new tachs---that the replica car manufacturers would just bite the bullet and send them to Hollywood or Palo Alto before they are even installed in the cars. I would gladly pay the extra fee just to eliminate my having to go to the trouble to remove and replace the tach. Not a big job, but it seems that this service would be a good marketing tool for the replica producers.

I agree, Terry, but if a replica manufacturer wants to be a cut above the other manufacturers, he needs to at least consider his long-range business goals. It's all about marketing, and settling for an inferior part---the replacement of which would add only a nominal fee to the product---doesn't strike me as being good business sense.

Sadly, a lot of small business owners often haven't grasped such concepts because they have never been trained to do so, and many businesses fail as a result because they forget the old adage, "The Customer is King." Insufficient capitalization is often a factor also, but poor marketing skills and poor customer relations also can play a big part. I'm now off my soapbox.

I agree Goofycat.  I am getting ready to take delivery of my new VS and nothing will tick me off more than if something gets here and it isnt working specifically since I live in FLorida way far away.  I asked Kirk to put additional miles on my car for this reason.  I asked that it not show up with 15 miles like I always see with the resellers but to put 100-200 miles on it and see what needs fixed.  Customer is King...knowing that these parts break religously, something needs to be done to permanently fix.  I would have also gladly spent $160 more dollars to have it done right before the car leaves that shop.  I hope I dont have these issues...

One more thing.  I think that some of these car manufacturers should get more involved in the people piece.  I am sure that some of the higher dollar builders do, but funny thing is that when I ordered mine, their was no consult, no "lets have a 30 minute phone call to go over what we can do, not do, how the process works, what do you want on your car, here is what issues we have had and how we can fix before delivery..."  My car is being picked up and shipped tomorrow and I just made my final payment and I am still asking if the car is coming with a manual, when will I do the first break in valve adjust, etc.  I have not gotten the - OK...car is done.  Lets go over the checklist to make sure that everything you ordered IS in fact on the car.  or a Lets go over what we recommend you do once you get the car.  If I were a first time owner, this would be an issue.  Thank goodness it is my second!

I feel like I am bugging the crap out of VS, in fact I guarantee I am.  Hell, I am probably one of the worst they have had BUT it is because I live so far away - but I also feel like if I dont, I wont get what I ordered.  I dont want missing parts that I have to beg to get.  I dont want to have to call and say the speedo doesnt work or the horn is working.  Doesnt make sense when that type of thing happens. 

Interesting.  Given that VDO was bought by Continental years ago, I would bet that most of their electronic PCB's are now manufactured in China.  Where they get final unit assembly done is up for grabs (probably Brazil or India) and then they get "distributed" from sites in several different countries, depending on local methods of shipping (with favorable import/export and Value Added tax treatment) and local tax breaks to the distributors.

The reproductions are, most likely, completely assembled in China.  The biggest difference, IMO after doing this stuff for a while, is far less quality in both components used and the assembly techniques used.  VDO sites are all ISO 2001 certified for both parts used (and their parts suppliers, too) and their assembly techniques, while the repro places are flying under the RADAR for the most part.  I have yet to see a reproduction 356 Tach with any kind of quality control "passed" stamp on it.  Not that a stamp is required to make me or you feel good, but at least it's a start.

To be honest, I wouldn't care as much where something was made (some Chinese manufacturing is top rate) as long as the thing worked.  I think the fact that there are very, very few places building these gauges because of the very low volume and the demand price point eliminates the quality houses from the build equation and, thus, we get "Ming Low's Bright Star Manufacturing and Raw Milk Company" instead.

I just have a broken tach! its cost me too much shipping over the pond again 

will get round to it one day 

Well said, Gordon. I'll make sure I don't buy anything with a Ming Low label on it.

Stay tuned guys, new gauges coming soon...    I believe we have about 3 months left until Henry and I have the final samples for approval from VDO!!!

I think Gordon has it right.  I buy a fair amount of machine parts from Asia, most of which are of good quality.  Japan, Malaysia, Taiwan, and China in descending order of quality.  Those of us who are comfortable only with German or US-made goods have to suck it up.  Those days are relics of the past.  At least with speedos, you can pay for quality with PA or NH speedo guys.  Buy once, cry once, you're done. 

I am slowly learning which companies I can count on for quality, but I'm approaching another retirement, so likely will never be an Asian expert.  Like it or not, market facts rule the market.  Many of us are old enough to remember when "made in Japan" meant crap.  How times change! 

Interesting report from Gordo about how even the "German" VDO stuff is probably Chinese too, or So Am.  Hmmm -- he would know better than I.  And I can say this to add to the chorus: the builders use the Chinese copies because they are cost effective, despite the high return rate, evidently.  Mine was the same: jumpy tach syndrome.  So I did my "research" here on the forum and was vectored to No. Hollywood, where they assured me that they would gut the cans, and replace w/, and I quote: "genuine VDO German components" -- end quote. I do not know what went in there, but I do know that the tach was fixed and has worked perfectly since.  Footnote: I was set to just pay the frieght to No Hollywood, after having brought this up to the builder JPS initially, w/out much luck.  In the end, he buckled and said to send the tach to him, he would have the work done at N. Hollywood, and they'd send it to me.  He was very familiar w/ No. Hollywood shop -- gee, I wonder why??  And so it was.  And why the builders are so chintzy w/ their wires, only they will know.  A couple extra inches would make a world of difference w/ the R&R of the instrument cans, and would not make much difference to the rat's nest of wires already there, seems to me.  So this whole thread is a case of deja vu (?) all over agian for me.  Been there, done that . . .

I'm NOT knocking Chinese anything, but there has been a very large number of our fellow members who have reported tach problems with VS (and other) cars. 

But lets be clear, manufacturers are using these Chinese instruments because they are cheap, not good, not best, not worst, but cheap.  VS has to control their costs, and using instruments that are cheap is certainly one method.

The bottom line has to be one of "does Kirk make it right after it has been reported to him" and in my case, Kirk is making the right noises.  But I seriously doubt that anything I say (or apparently what any of us say either) is going to make Kirk change to another tachometer manufacturer.

I will say that it should be a very simple matter for VS to have tested a tach before the car leaves their shops - just plug in a wire to the negative side of a coil on any car and see if the tach registers.  What happens later, once the car is in the hands of the owner, is up to whatever warranty Kirk wants to provide and support.

Carey based on this information should I wait to send my speedo out for calibration and the odo issue to be addressed. 

Hi all,

i have just come in on the end of this conversation - TOPIC - I am looking to replace my entire out dated tractor style VDO gauges with something more suitable and period correct etc. who should I contact..

Sounds like you should contact Carey Hines at Special Edition.

Good points made here.  I bought my first Tub new from VS and had the same feelings.  I Think Kirk could add tremendous value by just hiring someone to consult on his behalf.  He does not like to stay on the phone for long.  

This would go a long way to cap or slow the anxiety of long distant buyers.   Interview the client/customer and get it all right from the start.  Also, have a closing or exit interview before the car leaves the shop.  Follow up several weeks later to see how the new owner is fairing.  

I got all that and more from my most recent purchase.  VS still = great value! but they can improve in this area, at least IMHO... 

Chinese manufacturers can and do produce very high quality stuff every day.  Look at your PC, iPhone, Android phone or any piece of electronic equipment in your home (and a lot of what's in your car).  Some of their assembly houses even have ISO certification.  But the bottom line is you get what you pay for and the demand volume for these gauges at, What?....200-300 per year?  Just isn't enough to get the high volume, high quality guys interested.  The best you might get is a side-run of several hundred gauge drive boards (the PCB inside that makes everything work) from the PCB manufacturer and then pop them into suitable cases - and let me tell you; there is NOTHING special about a gauge drive board from VDO versus Dakota Digital or most others.  What makes them different is the quality of the parts that make up the board.

And several on here are perfectly right:  Manufacturers buy from the lowest bidder who can make their quality levels.  When I was at EMC, we had our PCB's built by Solectron (USA) and Celestica (Canada) to beyond six-sigma (that's wicked high quality for you laymen).  For us, it wasn't a question of volume (we were one of their lower volume customers for each part number we did) or price (they were about equal).  For us it was the ability to drive failures on a board back up the chain through the final assembly house, through the board assembly house and back into the individual part suppliers to get us the best parts available that would not fail.  Celestica was willing to work with us to drive failures back to the true source of each failure and in doing so, gave us a better product and for them, fewer failures to rework and, as they used those part vendors for other people's boards, better overall quality for the industry.

What did EMC get for this?  Equipment that simply did not fail - like installing 3,400 systems (each one worth over $1.5 Million) in one quarter with only 2 very minor failures that did not effect customer operation.  It also allowed us to have a field service organization about 85% smaller than what everyone else in the industry had (and we saved hundreds of millions in doing so).  Could a small volume gauge shop do this?  Absolutely not - but they COULD test each shipping gauge for a week in an automated fashion and cull out 95% of the early failures before you and I see them.

I did this for a living for 30 years and can go on for hours (at $300/hour) but I hear people on the side crying "Please stop!  I'm Bored!"

I'm not shilling for Henry at IM, but I have never had better customer service from anyone, regardless of what I was buying.  Many will say that it comes with a cost, but as I am fortunate enough to be able to afford an IM (and maybe crazy enough to do so, as some would say), I have to say that Henry is upfront about everything. 

My current IM was a used one that I bought from him, but I still got service beyond expectations, and I still do if I have any questions.  It really is a case of 'bespoke' service.

TDR, I am confident that your new car will be everything that you want it to be.

:-)

I ahve zero doubt that I am going to love my second VS more than the first.  To be honest, for the "toy" that I am buying, I didnt want to spend an arm and a leg.  I have had both real and plastic porsches and I went back to Vintage because they do build a great product.  Looks good, sounds good, money is right and Kirk is really a good dude...BUT - he has to understand that he is probably missing out on at least 50K per year in peoples upgrades just by asking a simple pre-order questionarre and discussing the benefits...or like you said, have a consultant do it.  Hell, Id do it for free just because I love these cars.  Engine upgrades, gauge upgrades, leather seats vs vinyl, stereos, electronic igntion vs points, cam and internal motor components, wheels, tires, exhaust, etc.  All of these are upgradeable! 

I know they are busy.  I think he has 10 cars going on right now...  I love to hear there are that many cars like this being built and by Pros like VS.  I can only wonder what more they could be doing!!!!

Great news!!

A few of you posted something along the lines of: the builders use the Chinese copies because they are cost effective/cheap/whatever...

In my case this couldn't be further from the truth.  VDO Brazil quit making gauges maybe 4-5 years ago.  I ponied up and bought the last several HUNDRED sets just so I didn't have to run the China-crap gauges...  Now that I have no choice but to run the China-crap gauges I spend 2x what they should cost to make sure they work properly. 

During that time we were constantly searching for a better manufacturer and after nearly 2 years of searching/begging/testing we came full circle with VDO and we tooled new gauges with them via a different overseas VDO factory, again with the help of other manufacturers that think along the same lines as us.

There are a few of us out there that look at quality over cost (within reason of course). This "theme" continues throughout my builds; steering box, starter, trim, steering arms, shocks, etc, etc... There are cheaper alternatives to the parts I use in almost all of thee cases and many, many more, but I choose quality over price... plus we are always looking at what is out there that can be improved upon.

Over the last few years I have personally retooled things like lights (tail and turn for speedster and spyder), various badges, various trims, windshield glass, latches, mirrors, to name a few, and at a substantial expense, just because I was not satisfied with the quality of what was available in the aftermarket.

Joe: your speedo is already being re-calibrated, besides, we had to abandon our initial plan of making gauges that were an exact match to the old VDO Brazil gauges.  The new gauges are a very accurate replica but will differ enough from the old gauges that I would suggest swapping out all 3 if you ever upgrade them.