Nasty Vibration coming from the front, any ideas?

To start I have been driving my speedster with this vibration for quite some time assuming it was a tire out of balance. This weekend I finally got off of my butt and took the wheels to get alligned. It didn't fix my problem. The problem occurs between 32-38 mph. When it occurs the whole car starts to shake and the steering wheel will move about 3 inches in each direction. For some reason I have quite a bit of slop in my steering wheel when I go to turn it. I don't know if that is typical for VW steering systems, but I can move the steering wheel about 1.5 inches without the wheels moving at all. This could be part of the problem. Let me know if you have any ideas. I am trying to get ready for the Woodward Dream Cruise in two weeks.

Suspect a loose suspension part:
Loose wheel bearing, bad steering box, steering box to shaft rag joint, steering shaft to steering box U clamp loose and or the teeth worn, steering box adjuster screw may have backed off, steering box mounting clamp loose, idler arm loose, check tie rods, ball joints, axle beam mounting bolts loose, rusted frame head.....check every suspension part carefully.

As mentioned.

A loose steering box is sufficient alone to cause the problem you're having. You can try adjusting the box by loosening the outer set nut then adjusting the inner set screw but, DON'T forget to check every other component as previously mentioned.

You initially said you thought it was wheel balance and got up off your butt and had it aligned ??

Did you ever get the front tires balanced?

Follow Alan's advice and do it NOW ! ! !

Sorry I was half a sleep when I wrote that this morning. I ment to say I got the tires balanced. I didn't get anything aligned.

You need new control arm ball joints . if you hit the brake in a hard tapping motion the wheels quit vibrating.
Bumps and pot holes set it off also
A front end alinement is useless untill thats replaced

Put a jack under the car and watch them drop away from the spindle to confrirm the loseness of worn out joints

Maybe on the Ball Joints....

He also says he has a LOT (like 3") of steering wheel play. While I wouldn't rule out worn Ball joints (and they should be checked just to make sure) you CERTAINLY shouldn't have any more than 1" of free-play at the circumference of the steering wheel when the front wheels are straight. A loose steering box, alone, could account for shimmy starting at low speed (like 30 mph) but I bet you also have a few other things in there which are either worn or simply mis-adjusted.

Sounds like it's time to take it to a front end alignment guy who can align an old (1969 vintage, say) Volkswagen Sedan, have him give it the once-over and tell you what's loose under there (Ball Joints, tie-rod ends, Pitman Arm bushings and steering box) and then go from there. All of those parts are readily available (Mid-America, CIP1 and a bunch of others - check the ad pages of Hot VW's Magazine) and not especially costly.

Good luck.......gn

A lot of good advice here but, I'd start with an inspection. If everything appears tight and in order, then do the free repair first, that is, adjust your steering box. I've had many a VW that had the same problem and nothing more than an adjustment of the steering box was necessary.

If that doesn't do the trick then follow the advice given by other members regarding suspension and steering components.

Larry, above you say to adjust the steering box you loosen the outer set nut then adjust the inner set screw. When you say adjust do you just mean tighten? If so what is tight (finger tight or some torque)? I will give that a try tonight and that a glance at the ball joint and others before I take it in.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

steering dampener---I'm not saying that this is the way it's supposed to work but have had experience with that kind of vibration
on a delapidated system once a small bump was hit. Undo one end of the damper and I'll bet youhave no resitance in it.
But usually when a vibration is speed related its the tires/rims,
god luck.

Peter, the best way to adjust the steering box is to raise the front tirs off the ground. While the front is in the air, check steering and suspension components as previously described.

Loosen the lock nut on the steering box adjuster. Tighten (clockwise) the inner set screw while someone is turning the steering wheel (left, right, left, right etc)

They need to communicate to you when the slop has disappeared. You don't want the set screw too tight otherwise, the steering will become very tight during a turn. Tighten the locking nut and give it a try.

I had a 68 beetle do this . the the box was good the tie rods good but the ball joints dangriously close to popping out. The shimmey after hitting a pot hole was a lot like he discribed. The steering wheel did move that much.

I also experienced this on a couple of ocassions;
1) The steering shaft cage cracked around the weld causing increased play in the steering wheel.
2) Driving a clapped out beetle and hitting a man hole cover and fracturing an already rusred frame head, went into a wild shimmy ...kinda like "Captian we're breaking up"

Is there a jam-nut on each tie-rod? That or a loose ball joint?
Your symptoms exactly describe what happened to me a few years ago when my left front wheel came out of its socket on a freeway on-ramp.

You need to jack up the front and grab hold of each wheel and really reef on them to see if there's any give. Back and forth, up and down. You're looking for something giving with little, if any, resistance from the suspension and frame. Do both wheels.

On my car I found it to be a bad bearing on the torsion tubes. This allowed one of the arms to move ever so slightly. Fix for me was a new tube but you can get new bearings just don't get the urethane ones cause that's what caused my problem to begin with.

One more thing, if you need to replace ball joints check out the cost to have the old ones pressed out and the new ones pressed in. With the cost of the ball joints and the labour I could have bought new arms with the joints installed and still have some money left over. I had a hard time getting someone to press them out and in...the shops here all said they didn't have presses capable of that. Something to do with insurance and Workers Compensation costs.

Brian

" . . . don't get the urethane ones cause that's what caused my problem to begin with."

Elaborate PLEASE. I'm putting together a beam using those bushings along with urethane snubs, boots, steering coupler, dampener grommet, and so on. I thought that urethane replacements for the cheapo-repro rubber pieces would help make the assembly bullet proof.

Guess not ? ! ? !

Well it looks like the ball joints are bad. I think I am going to take it to a shop and have them replaced and have them go through the rest of the front end.

Peter, check prices first. Like I said above, it cost me more to buy the ball joints and have them replaced than if I were to have just bought new arms with the ball joints already installed. Up until the pressing out and in of the ball joints the labour should be about the same for either.

The urethane bushes did not replace rubber pieces. They were long urethane tubes that replaces the outer seals, outer needle bearings and the inner plastic (there's a names for the plastic but I can't recall it) bearing...all one piece. I wrecked the inner plastic bearings either when I welded in height adjusters or when I may have used too much force to get the arms back in. I decided to go with the urethane bushes but they just had too much play in them. The car would wander going down the road...so much so that I would never take it out if the raods were the least bit slippery. Years ago when I posted this someone else chimed in with the same problems.

Brian

Peter,

When I get into a speedster project, usually I just toss the old axle beam assembly.
Check out buying a complete spindle to spindle axle beam, it will cost you less and you'll have a all new beam and have saved on labor costs, your time and skinned knuckles. New beam = approx $240.00

Hey Peter---how many miles on your car? Jack, Hot Springs