Thanks Jack, that makes sense.
Speaking of SAS ...
The photo is the rear suspension of an SAS car per the SAS website. Does anybody know if SAS makes their own rear suspension components? Or have them made? Or is this a suspension from a donor vehicle? And if anybody is currently driving an SAS with this rear suspension, how is it working out?
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Check out the inspection that the guy at Seduction did for a potential buyer. The post or link included many good pictures of the build quality of that particular SAS car ( which didn't look good). I am thinking the quality of the SAS cars is inconsistent from the posts I have read.
My SAS cabriolet has a Subaru Legacy suspension (donor car). It was built in 2012
Jimmy V. posted:Here is the link
This is scary. What a sad litany of irresponsible engineering/design issues. Any prospective SAS buyer needs to see this...
I can tel you that my car is nothing like that.
It’s OK, Jethro. We know Lawing built some well-constructed cars. He was just inconsistent.
I saw your car several times when it lived in Rhode Island and admired how good it looked (and believe me, I looked all over it a couple of times). It had the usual SAS eccentricities, like the second dash in the frunk) and qI do not know how many things the original owner had to have fixed. I know of several but never kept close touch about it - It wasn’t my car, after all. I do know that he probably did not do the work, if any - He was not a hands on wrench, in my mind, and there were health issues involved, too, IIRC.
It seems, however, that Lawing began to rush them through his shop at some point in time and his product quality suffered. That may have happened pretty early, too, as I often heard of people arranging for a trip through Knoxville to get things fixed on their SAS cars on their way either to/from Carlisle or to/from home from somewhere. That included a number of visits over time for “Geraldine’s” car, but some of that could have been for semi-regular maintenance or upgrades or whatever, I don’t know. Again, not my car, so little interest, there.
Anyway, he was building all sorts of cars in his cluttered shop (I’ve been there), many of them customs or Hot Rods (and those clients have their own set of problems with Lawing). The owner of that Ivory coupe Wolfgang mentioned had had other cars built there over years but seemed to be a patient supporter of Lawing’s. I guess he had his own reasons - I surely would not have been that understanding, but that’s me and I’m not him.
If I were to own one of his gems, my only big concern would be (a.) understanding the design, where everything is in the car and its’ original source/placement and (b.) how to fix just about everything on the car, because nobody else is gonna understand it , either. AS I recall, no detailed service manual was included as it was thought that “you could just take it to a Subaru dealer for drivetrain service”. Sorta true, but even when they find something in the diagnostics, where that piece might be in the car compared to, say, an Impreza’s similar part, could be totally different. It might take a lot of work, at times, to simply find the source of a problem and THEN you have to figure out how to service it. It goes on and on.
So don’t be overly sensitive, J-Man. Sorted SAS cars are in a class by themselves, true, but so are Subaru-powered IM’s, like Peter Venuti’s and others, Suby-powered JPS cars and so on. All are custom cars at different levels of quality design and completion. I would say, though, that SAS cars are probably not cars for the oil and gas only type of owner, as sooner or later they will need some attention, just like all custom cars. It’s great that you have been able to maintain your car by yourself.
gn
Just checking in.
Any updates on anyone's progress or ability to collect owed money?
jenzbenz207 posted:Just checking in.
Any updates on anyone's progress or ability to collect owed money?
No.
Robert M posted:jenzbenz207 posted:Just checking in.
Any updates on anyone's progress or ability to collect owed money?No.
Did you get a lawyer?
We have a lawyer, recommended here, and even he has a hard time calling us back. I can't explain how goddamn frustrating all this is.
jenzbenz207 posted:Robert M posted:jenzbenz207 posted:Just checking in.
Any updates on anyone's progress or ability to collect owed money?No.
Did you get a lawyer?
We have a lawyer, recommended here, and even he has a hard time calling us back. I can't explain how goddamn frustrating all this is.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m just a member here on the forum and have been keeping track of the saga.
Robert M posted:jenzbenz207 posted:Robert M posted:jenzbenz207 posted:Just checking in.
Any updates on anyone's progress or ability to collect owed money?No.
Did you get a lawyer?
We have a lawyer, recommended here, and even he has a hard time calling us back. I can't explain how goddamn frustrating all this is.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m just a member here on the forum and have been keeping track of the saga.
Sorry if you think I implied that you did. My original question and responding comment was spoken outloud for everyone, not just you directly.
Good luck to everyone!
Jim Kelly posted:Jimmy V,
Bankruptcy's purpose is not to protect creditors, it's to protect the debtor. When Lawing was faced with a $420,000 judgment about 10 years ago for defrauding a different bunch of car guys, he went BK and never paid a dime of the judgement. Sounds kind of like someone in our current administration, eh? Is this a great country or what?
Not sure where you're seeing his ad, since Theron cancelled his ad a few years ago. I don't see it on my screen.
Hi where can I find more info pertaining to this $420,000 case against Lawing?
Thanks
Stephen W. Lawing declared bankruptcy in the Eastern Tennessee Bankruptcy Court (www.tneb.uscourts.gov). The case was finally settled in 2012.
Warning: To access BK Court records, you will need to join PACER, the public access system to court records, an onerous process that will force you to reconsider your position on anarchy as a viable form of government.
I’m withJethro here also. Did not know who SAS was and just wanted Subaru in the build. I did read a little about the.
I do like it a lot. Would have been nice to have build sheets etc. it almost sorted and have more fun with it.
Sas did help the first few months of ownership and lost contact after.
I am one of many people that Steve has defrauded. I’ve paid him $16,000 (for the first 2 payments). He had promised me a car by June 2019. I went all the way to Tennessee from Los Angeles to see his shop and meet him. There was no car he was working on, his excuse was “the other shops were holding him back, due to bad weather and that he had lost some of his employees so it was just taking him longer to finish out cars”. That was in October 2018. Ever since then he hasn’t answered any of my emails or phone calls. He’s a fraud. If there are anymore people with the same issues, please let me know, maybe we can all join in on a lawsuit. Thank you all!
Mike_z85 posted:I am one of many people that Steve has defrauded. I’ve paid him $16,000 (for the first 2 payments). He had promised me a car by June 2019. I went all the way to Tennessee from Los Angeles to see his shop and meet him. There was no car he was working on, his excuse was “the other shops were holding him back, due to bad weather and that he had lost some of his employees so it was just taking him longer to finish out cars”. That was in October 2018. Ever since then he hasn’t answered any of my emails or phone calls. He’s a fraud. If there are anymore people with the same issues, please let me know, maybe we can all join in on a lawsuit. Thank you all!
Sorry to hear that Mike. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I and another guy here are currently in a lawsuit with him and there is one guy legally ahead of us too. Unfortunately I don't see how everyone here can get their money back, it's simply not possible. 
Lawing isn't a big name corporation a group of people can sue and get their thousands upon thousands back, the money isn't there. He gets it in it goes out...my bf flew to TN 11 years ago to meet him and gave him $17,000.
I hate to sound so crude but there are dozens of people in this situation with him and the majority of us will never get the money back.
Perhaps contact your bank, see if there is any protection or assistance they can provide, considering this transaction is fairly new in the scheme of things.
At the very least it would be nice if the feds could get involved and put this scam artist behind bars.
Was it the 2012 bankruptcy law suite where he changed the name from SAW to SAS? The 2012 bankruptcy would squash claims up to that date? If deposit funds are mailed interstate - isn't that "mail fraud" - a felony?
The BBB complaints are a sad read for those who put $ down!
https://www.bbb.org/us/tn/knox...0533-5824/complaints
Of course, selling "the product" that someone put a deposit down on - before refunding $ is a pure Ponzi scheme. Especially when there is no product even started.
WOLFGANG posted:Was it the 2012 bankruptcy law suite where he changed the name from SAW to SAS? If deposit funds are mailed interstate - isn't that "mail fraud" - a felony?
The BBB complaints are a sad read for those who put $ down!
Not sure on either of those fronts.II knew of that huge lawsuit through my research but I don't know if that is the one I'm talking about.
Lawing told our lawyer in January /February that he would appreciate it if the lawsuits came to a halt so he can work on getting more money coming in.
Can you believe that ****!? He's actually admitting that he is running a ponzi scheme. He's such a piece of ####.
I have a SAS and sadden to hear about this and that it”s still happening after so many years.
I was looking at the SAS website's supposedly gallery of cars built and delivered to customers. Many of them appear to be pictures of old CMC cars. What a con artist.
I can't believe people are still being screwed by this guy! In 2018 it was well known...He must have a death wish.
@Bill Prout bill or a good lawyer.
Is "good lawyer" an oxymoron ....or just a plain moron?
Does anybody out here know if Steve Lawing and SAS is still in business?
Aerial photos taken in June 2019 show a clean site at his Mill Branch location. All the damaged Subaru's and other junk has been removed, it appears.
Or did he move his shop to a new location?
https://www.bbb.org/us/tn/knox...0533-5824/complaints
Time to contact Guido - payment up front $10k per knee cap!
There doesn't seem to be any conversations on the SAS blog site regarding SAS or Lawing. The blog for the queue hasn't had any updates for several years.
The last conversation was in March 2019 from the moderator telling people not to contribute to his free web page. Somehow someone hacked their webpage and inserted a donate button. Not sure why he can't remove it, he's the moderator.
GP posted:Does anybody out here know if Steve Lawing and SAS is still in business?
Aerial photos taken in June 2019 show a clean site at his Mill Branch location. All the damaged Subaru's and other junk has been removed, it appears.
Or did he move his shop to a new location?
Myself and 3 others are currently involved with a lawsuit against Steve Lawing. The case was filed in late 2018 and we are supposed to be getting a court date at some point in the near future. Steve's lawyer is trying to get all 4 of us travel to Knoxville from different part of the country to give depositions. I have no idea if he is actually in business at this point. Our attorney is Matthew Evans in Knoxville. He has been involved in a few separate lawsuits with Lawing over the years and is quite familiar with his scam. Honestly, I don't have much faith that I will ever see my money again. I would think that there could be some criminal charges filed against him at this point.
Getting you to travel to him is the way to frustrate you and so when you sign a contract you are subject to the laws of where the builder is most times.
Maybe we will see Steve/SAS on an episode of American Greed. He ran it just like a Ponzi scheme.
BTW, I also had Bunky Bird write Lawing a letter for me before we decided to go the lawsuit route. Not only did it have no effect on him, he even denied ever getting the letter.
Sorry I made light of the situation! Sure is a despicable way to run a business and treat fellow enthusiasts.
He will pop up with GRAND OPENING somewhere
WOLFGANG posted:Sorry I made light of the situation! Sure is a despicable way to run a business and treat fellow enthusiasts.
No worries. I've basically put all of it behind me. I will be happy if I get any of my money back, but I don't expect to. Luckily, I have a very understanding wife who got tired of me moping around and encouraged me to order another speedster from Special Edition. Although it has been just over 2 years since I placed my order with Carey, my car has just entered the final assembly stage and will hopefully be delivered in the next few months. It will be the first speedster on their new chassis.
Stuman posted:WOLFGANG posted:Sorry I made light of the situation! Sure is a despicable way to run a business and treat fellow enthusiasts.
No worries. I've basically put all of it behind me. I will be happy if I get any of my money back, but I don't expect to. Luckily, I have a very understanding wife who got tired of me moping around and encouraged me to order another speedster from Special Edition. Although it has been just over 2 years since I placed my order with Carey, my car has just entered the final assembly stage and will hopefully be delivered in the next few months. It will be the first speedster on their new chassis.
@Stuman You must have earned a lot of brownie points to get the second chance. Like that with the wife. I almost got Somme’s twice trying to get my speedster. I did end up with a use SAS. Bravo to the wife for sure and Welcome to the madness.
Life has a funny way of getting back “karma comes back with a vengence”.
For all Steven Lawley Victims..... I am not an Attorney but I do know what usually works and I know what he does is clearly Wire Fraud and personally I wouldn't " Put it behind me" as my money is hard earned money....Go after the SOB!
1) A few years back a local Knoxville (?) TV station did an consumer fraud investigation on SAW / SAS Steve Lawley or whatever the company - name is this time around. Perhaps you can do a search to confirm what station and the Reporter that did the leg work.....there is video.
2) DO contact the Tennessee Attorney General, they tend to follow through especially when their are multiple ppl that have been screwed.
Many of you already know my story with the infamous John P. Steal so I won't go into details (unless I am called to testify). No car and no $20k deposits. Fact is, California is in bad shape economically. Perhaps this is why so many scammers are there. I lived in Northern parts and I guess it was a little less 3rd world. But I hesitate to do ANY Calif. business now since my wonderful JPS experience. The A.G. is aware of things as is the DPS and EPA etc etc. Selling a car with a stolen chassis (and transporting to another State), building a car on a TWICE totaled chassis, as well as some other legalities in question would command immediate response in most states. Today I don't care about anything that happens in California. I focus on good stuff having finally left the bottom feeders behind. I consider it higher education which is expensive.
On a positive note, for more than 2 years, I have had a Vintage speedster out of a very nice personal collection of high end cars which is absolutely perfect for me in all regards. All I needed to do was slowly and patiently re-jet the Webers. There's only 16 jets. Ha. But the 2332cc finally reached it's potential and delivered perfect performance for past 6 months. Of seven serious shows, we took 2 best of shows and the rest firsts. We are invited to display car in Houston new car show coming up and have had some serious offers for much more than we paid. We drive every day the weather permits and you know about the attention we get. Top stays tucked away. I have know 356's for 50+years and mine is all I ever wanted and better than anything I could've gotten from Mr. Steal.
I am sorry there is scum in this world who scrape constantly to keep the wolves at bay. Must be a terrible life. But I assure all the SAS and other victims that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I truly understand your pain and that it will pass. As soon as you can, move on and find happy. To all the scammers?.....eat S&*% and just die.
Here is my take on scammers. Do your best to not get scammed but when you do, when you get burned, it is normal to feel infuriated and you need to work through the emotions but in the end even if it seems to rear it's head every once in a while, it's not worth the energy to continue to stew it...
Try to get justice, learn from it, and finally just forgive them, and set yourself free ! ... It is so much easier on your heart, at least it has been for me.