Need advice on transmission and rear disc brakes

What most people call a "freeway flyer" is a longer 4th gear (.82 instead of .89) will lower rpm's in 4th about 200 rpm. A smaller engine has to work harder going up hills and now the fan may not be turning fast enough to keep the engine properly cooled, as the engine is no longer loping along easily on the idle circuit(s). Because of the Beetle's un-aerodynamic shape, when VW went to the 3.88 ring & pinion they actually shortened 4th gear (from .89 to .93) while the the slipperier Karmann  Ghia was able to keep the longer gear.I Know the .82 longer 4th is a tempting modification, but don't do it.

A bigger engine (with more torque because of it's size) can pull the wider spaced combo, but some people who do find it still makes 4th feel "awkward". Stan and someone else (Rusty? Aircooled?) have tried it and didn't really like it.

Oops! forgot this-

http://www.teammfactory.com/ca.../0/0/3500/3500/1/0/2

I looked at your previous posts and you mentioned the car being built on a '67 pan- chances are you have the transaxle from the donor car installed, which is why I put a 4.125 ring&pinion in the gear calculator. Change the final drive to 3.88 in trans 1 and you'll find that you end up with almost the same maximum cruising speed (only 1 mph less) as you'd have with the longer 4th gear, and you haven't messed up the gear spacing. A Speedster, with it's more aerodynamic shape, even with a smaller engine can pull the 3.88 r&p.

Most rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" to each side. Again, assuming the trans is a '67, your rear track is narrower than later ('68) swingaxle/irs, which is good, but if you're going to do a transaxle replacement there is another solution- find some even shorter '66 and earlier axles/tubes and install those on the trans when you install it. Then you won't have to worry about fender clearance.

The information I have-

'66 and earlier- short axle/short spline-                               26 11/16"                                    '67 only-  short axle/long spline-                                           27 13/16"                                    '68 and newer bug and all type 3- long axle/long spline- 28 7/16"

Hope this helps. Al

Any recommendations on who sells a 3.88 ring and opinion transmission?

The Rancho Pro-Street seems to be the gold standard.  I put close to 60k miles on mine with no problems.

If your near northern ca we can do it. The typical freeway flyer is a 3.88 r/p with the .089 fourth gear.  The .082 is from a bus box and can be use instead of the .089 but you need a larger motor for it work to your advantage. I am basically stating what has already been said. Your tire size also effects that finial drive rpm. If you go to disc brakes either use CSP, the shop in AZ, or cb. Stay away from other brands

This just my .02... but rear discs are not necessary ( unless you are running big hp) as the front's do 70% of the braking . Rear discs, the advantage is you don't have to adjust them at regular intervals. Freeway flier (described with good info) but the fan runs slower. Somewhat expensive ( parts alone are $1,500 plus) and with a 1600cc it's money invested with minimal return. A 3:88 R & P with the right tires size with suffice. 

Have you done any upgrades to your engine to make it a bit more powerful and more enjoyable to drive?  Dual carbs give 8 or so HP.  1.25:1 rocker arms give a few more HP.  Sump or oil cooler aids cool summer running if you are in a hot climate.  Also reassuring to have more than just 2.5 quarts of oil.  A real oil filter increase life of engine over just the sump screen.  A more efficient exhaust sounds better and can increase HP too - especially with dual carbs.

Adding a sump does absolutely nothing to temperature. Extra oil slows warmup, but the oil reaches the same temperature. Absolutely the added capacity is good.

I disagree about rear discs. It depends on how you drive. I used to get brake fade until I changed to 4 wheel discs. Not any more.

Return on investment. If that is what on your mind you would have bought a used Boxster.  Improvements or additions to your original car are all about you. If you feel a need for it then do so and try to get the best info and brand of part out there(there is a lot of crap or poorly made products available). As for the sump. A good idea. Additional volume of oil. Stock motor holds 2.6 quarts.  Rear. Disc are nice. No need to adjust brakes anymore. But buyer be ware !      My suggestion list goes like this.

full flow oiling system which includes a remote filter and remote cooler option 

remote cooler (Setrab. With fan pack) 

use an fittings on all oil line when possible

if your considering a freeway flyer, save your money and get a five speed. This is a big expense but one you will never regret.  From a stock motor to a big motor this one improvement will give you satisfaction. The return is drive ability.  Just ask some other speedster owners who have them. @Mitch  @terry

engine build up. I wouldn’t do it until you get the five speed

sorry for going in a different direction...........

My 2 cents.  When I had the Type ! 2015 cc engine in my VS it did run on the warm side; 225 to 235 degrees measured by an accurate  dipstick thermometer.  After installing a large sump holding additional oil it really did run cooler and I always thought it was the extra cooling fins built into the sump with plenty of air going across those fins because they were  in the airstream at  the bottom of the car.  Today with the Seatrab oil cooler it's a non-issue and I never see over 185 degrees oil temp, except that time I left a rag in the engine compartment that was pulled into the fan at Carlisle one year. Thank God for a CHT guage!

If an engine has the power it can go to a 4.120 R/P with a .82 4th gear.  I don't know if a 5th gear provides a higher overdrive,  but I see 77 mph at just 3500 rpm.  I never drive around town in 3rd gear either---always 4th going anything over 30 mph---maybe a bit slower than that..  (Tire size is 25" tall.)  With this combo I can't see that a 5 speed gives me anything additional for my type of driving, which is either sedately around town or 75-80 on interstates. 

Jack Crosby posted:!

If an engine has the power it can go to a 4.120 R/P with a .82 4th gear.  I don't know if a 5th gear provides a higher overdrive,  but I see 77 mph at just 3500 rpm.  I never drive around town in 3rd gear either---always 4th going anything over 30 mph---maybe a bit slower than that..  (Tire size is 25" tall.)  With this combo I can't see that a 5 speed gives me anything additional for my type of driving, which is either sedately around town or 75-80 on interstates. 

A 4.12 r/p with a .082 fourth is the same finial drive as a 3.88r/p with a .089 4th gear

a five speed retains either fourth gears (.082 or .089) or a .077 and .093. The advantage of the 5 speed is drive ability!  Your 4 speed works fine on flat straight roads. Come to a grade or a winding road and your either lugging it in 4th gear or whining it out in third.  If your ok with that then no need to read further. The 5 speed allows you to have an extra gear between the stock third and fourth gears. Therefore you change the third and fourth ratios with new ratios that keep you in the power band when shifting gears. fifth gear becomes your original fourth gear ratio. You have to drive one to really understand the logic behind the investment. 

The reason why I`m considering upgrade  the transmission and rear brake are because eventually I would like to put a bigger motor like a 1915 cc. My car is revving at 3700 rpm at 100 kph (60 mph). So its hard for me to travel.

  My rear brakes need new drums and I have to take them to a machine shop to get the nose of the drum machined down. Between the cost of the drums and cost of the machining I thought rear disc could be a option plus my star wheel adjuster tabs on the backing plate are loosing there retention so I think I need new backing plates too. That`s why I was considering  a rear disc set up. I think I have short axle/short spline already so it does not look like I can run rear disc.

Contact airkewld in Arizona or csp or cb regarding rear disc brakes. They all have sets that will work. 

As for rebuilding the trans to freeway flyer........email Me or call me and we can discuss it further. 

@JB356SR for your reference, here is Anthony's background. He has done work on quite of few of the Speedsters on this site. Great guy, busy & clean shop and is a valued supporter of this SOC group. Best of luck in your trans, brakes endeavor! 

http://www.anthonysclassicautowerks.com

@Anthony

MusbJim posted:

@JB356SR for your reference, here is Anthony's background. He has done work on quite of few of the Speedsters on this site. Great guy, busy & clean shop and is a valued supporter of this SOC group. Best of luck in your trans, brakes endeavor! 

http://www.anthonysclassicautowerks.com

@Anthony

Thanks Jim!

I had Brian @ Latenightaircooled build me a transmission for my 2275. Brian was great to deal with and shipped it to me with no issues. Super knowledgeable and responsibly priced. Just told him about my engine and what I was looking for in a means of the type of driving I would be doing and he nailed it. 

I also did disk brakes on the rear, I got the kit of Cbperformance, I have to admit the quality of the kit was a bit low end and the instructions left much to be desired, which is a surprise because everything else I have gotten from there has been great. If I had to do it again I would go with a kit from airkewld.

3700 rpm at 62 mph sounds like some drag race type gears. 

The typical stock Bug trans, with normal sized tires, should give you roughly 60 mph at 3000, no?

I'd check speedometer calibration . . ..

Alan Merklin posted:

This just my .02... but rear discs are not necessary ( unless you are running big hp) as the front's do 70% of the braking . Rear discs, the advantage is you don't have to adjust them at regular intervals. Freeway flier (described with good info) but the fan runs slower. Somewhat expensive ( parts alone are $1,500 plus) and with a 1600cc it's money invested with minimal return. A 3:88 R & P with the right tires size with suffice. 

I agree with Alan.  The big benefit of rear brakes is only there for cars that have antilock braking systems.  In a panic stop, with a car (Speedster) that doesn't have antilock brakes, all 4 wheels will lock up whether it has disks or drums.

The only benefit that I can see to rear disks on a Speedster is if you are driving very aggressively and are on and off the brakes a lot.  In that case, you will avoid reduced braking due to heat saturation that drum brakes can experience.

As Ed pointed out "60mph (100kmh) in 4th gear is about 3050 rpm" with stock 4.125 R&P transmission and stock 165/80x15 tires which is a 25.5" tall tire doing  794 revolution/mile.  60mph in 3rd gear is about 4040 rpm. A 185/65x15 tire is only 24.5" tall (an inch less) and would take 824 revs/mile (30 more!).  (From Miata tire size calculator). A smartphone app or GPS would confirm speed - maybe you're doing 70 mph?

Regarding disc brakes: I suppose I like rear discs for the same reason I like electronic spark pickups. It’s not that I can’t set and adjust either of them, it’s that doing so is a bit tedious and fussy. I’d need a reason not to run either.

Troy Sloan posted:

Alan Merklin posted:

This just my .02... but rear discs are not necessary ( unless you are running big hp) as the front's do 70% of the braking . Rear discs, the advantage is you don't have to adjust them at regular intervals. Freeway flier (described with good info) but the fan runs slower. Somewhat expensive ( parts alone are $1,500 plus) and with a 1600cc it's money invested with minimal return. A 3:88 R & P with the right tires size with suffice. 

I agree with Alan.  The big benefit of rear brakes is only there for cars that have antilock braking systems.  In a panic stop, with a car (Speedster) that doesn't have antilock brakes, all 4 wheels will lock up whether it has disks or drums.

The only benefit that I can see to rear disks on a Speedster is if you are driving very aggressively and are on and off the brakes a lot.  In that case, you will avoid reduced braking due to heat saturation that drum brakes can experience.

You're absolutely right, however, try going toward a corner at 80 and hitting the brakes which fade and do NOTHING to slow you down. Max corner entry of 50. SERIOUS PUCKER people! Yes, this happened to me on public roads. Yes, I was driving very aggressively. And yes, I absolutely made sure it could never happen again.

And properly biased rear discs are an advantage whether or not you have ABS. ABS is immaterial to this discussion.

Re the discussion on whether you "need" a rear brake upgrade- @DannyP hit the nail on the head when he said it "depends on how you drive". Aggressively driving through some higher speed mountain turns and the brakes fading going into the 3rd or 4th turn in a row or panic stopping  80+ mph on the highway (hey, I was only going that fast for a moment!) and finding out (the hard way) that there's nothing left and you're only down to whatever mph can be a very scary proposition. I have personal experience with the 2nd scenario, almost hitting a stoned kid picking magic mushrooms on the side of the highway as he walked across to join his stoned girlfriend in the center median, all this in the middle of rush hour traffic at 4:30 in the afternoon! If someone had hit him he was so high he wouldn't have known what happened.

If you can honestly say that you'll never drive the car even a teeny bit beyond it's limits, even just for a moment, then it's a moot point (if that's the case, why bother putting discs on the front?). But if you really like to drive your car a little aggressively, even only occasionally (after all, as Stan says, "it does say Speedster on the side of the thing!), knowing you have a little in reserve isn't a bad thing...

Now, do you need discs or will bigger (type 3) rear drums do? How much money have you got?   Al (who fortunately missed the idiot kid on the side of the freeway and then upgraded the rear brakes on his baja bug almost immediately after!)

PS- Even a completely stock 1600, driven harder than the elves at Wolfsburg ever intended will occasionally uncover the oil pump pick up and benefit from more oil available at the pick up. This is done by increasing the volume in the bottom of the engine (no, the oil in a full flow filter, lines and extra cooler do nothing to make more oil available at the pick up!), usually with an add-on sump. Running an engine dry (even for a moment or 3) even only once in a while will eventually result in a prematurely dead engine. Remember that most of the parts on your car began life on a humble commuter car and again, be honest with how you drive your Speedster.

Someone who lost an engine from autocrossing with only 2 1/2 quarts of oil-

https://www.speedsterowners.co.../my-engine-locked-up

I've had the terror errrr I mean pleasure of riding with Danny and he should be required by law to have rear disks!

That's funny Troy

Al makes a very good point " (if that's the case, why bother putting discs on the front?)

I had the pleasure of driving Danny in his first Spyder. Danny decided that in the future he won't ride in the right seat .  ….A few years later I took my wife Connie for a ride also  in Danny's Spyder through 20 some odd curves in PA , once again I heard a similar proclamation about riding in that right seat with me driving ~

Maybe it's the car? Or maybe the two of us are hooligans behind the wheel, Alan?

I seem to recall an event in Danny's car similar to the one Alan recounts.  While driving Danny's car back to the hotel in Mechanicsburg with him in the right seat I entered an exit ramp with a sharp curve a little hot.  The tail got a little loose but I caught it.  Probably would have lost it in a Speedster.  Damn fine car to drive!

DannyP posted:

Maybe it's the car? Or maybe the two of us are hooligans behind the wheel, Alan?

Absolutely ! 

I don`t think my speedometer calibration is out. Is it possible that I might have a transmission with a higher r/p gear of 4.38? Is there anyway to identify a swing axle transmission with a 4.12 r/p gear through serial numbers?

the other ratio that was used in early VW's was a 4:37 R/P.  If the transmission is original you can go by serial number but some 60-70 years have gone by and who knows how many times that trans was rebuilt. could be anything in there now.

Apologize, I think the RPMs I gave were for a '76 transmission which would have been a 3.88 R&P (hence low RPMs).  I don't have chart for RPM/Speed per transaxle.

Here is a fairly reliable chart that list the delivered ratios by transaxle code/year. 

http://www.midsouthvw.com/Tech...ip_TransaxleCode.htm

JB356SR posted:

I don`t think my speedometer calibration is out. Is it possible that I might have a transmission with a higher r/p gear of 4.38? Is there anyway to identify a swing axle transmission with a 4.12 r/p gear through serial numbers?

You certainly could; as was said, after so many years anything is possible. So-

Put the rear of the car up on jack stands. Make sure the emergency brake is off. Turn the crankshaft pulley to Top Dead Center. Shift car into 2nd gear. Mark 1 tire, turn the engine over by hand and count the number of  engine revolutions for 1 complete revolution of the tire-

8- 3.88 r&p                                                                                                                                      8.5- 4.125                                                                                                                                          9- 4.375

Make sure the brakes aren't dragging or it messes it up. 

The list I linked above uses the first 2 digits of the trans code to show how it was geared originally. 

http://www.midsouthvw.com/Tech...ip_TransaxleCode.htm

But that only holds true if it's never been apart. No way to know since it's been nearly 40 years since the last US model rolled off the line.....

Gotta take it apart(laughs at the thought of all y'all cringing at the thought of transmission work)!

ALB posted:

JB356SR posted:

I don`t think my speedometer calibration is out. Is it possible that I might have a transmission with a higher r/p gear of 4.38? Is there anyway to identify a swing axle transmission with a 4.12 r/p gear through serial numbers?

You certainly could; as was said, after so many years anything is possible. So-

Put the rear of the car up on jack stands. Make sure the emergency brake is off. Turn the crankshaft pulley to Top Dead Center. Shift car into 2nd gear. Mark 1 tire, turn the engine over by hand and count the number of  engine revolutions for 1 complete revolution of the tire-

8- 3.88 r&p                                                                                                                                        8.5- 4.125                                                                                                                                              9- 4.375

Make sure the brakes aren't dragging or it messes it up. 

Yes, it is possible. VW did make a 4.625 r&p, although it didn't come in any cars delivered here. I believe they came in some small commercial vehicle sold in the rest of the world. You'd think the small engine'd drag race crowd would love them, except that with the pinion head being so small they didn't stand up to the abuse. Berg at 1 time sold them, but for the reason above they weren't very popular, so don't expect to run into 1 at the next swap meet.

Oh- 9 1/2 turns and you know it's a 4.625.

DannyP posted:

But that only holds true if it's never been apart. No way to know since it's been nearly 40 years since the last US model rolled off the line.....

Gotta take it apart(laughs at the thought of all y'all cringing at the thought of transmission work)!

And it's been almost 60 years since the first tunnel case'd transaxles hit these shores. A lot of them have been apart, rebuilt (and re-configured) multiple times, so (as we've said multiple times now, who knows what's in it until you look). And I love taking them apart; it's the getting it back together I've never attempted...

You can have a low fourth gear with the 4:37 r/p to get a 4:62?  

I had a customer with a 4:12 R/P with a .093 fourth that came close to a 4:37

never know what one can have after all these years

Al, it isn't that hard. After doing it a few times, it is almost a pleasure putting them together. Usually, familiarity breeds contempt. Not so with transmissions or anything to do with "little clown cars".

Except adjusting carbs in Speedsters. I have contempt for that.

I bought my cmc speedster with disc all around and just put in a freeway flyer and would never look back, its a 1600 dp with dual carbs and aftermarket exhaust.

And a brand-new SOC member as well....

Welcome to the Madness, Darrell!