Need advice

Is it white or black smoke that signals a new Pope has been elected?

If accepted wisdom is "white smoke is oil...black smoke is fuel"

Then what would medium "gray smoke" be?,... the colored result of my Hiroshima Explosion that everyone poo-pahs as an energetic backfire!

 

Backfire hell...Something was energetically burning creating billowing clouds of gray smoke pouring up from under the tin, and escaping through the open slot around the crankcase pulley...Not drifting out like a farty backfire... but BILLOWING OUT with pressure behind it, for at least eight or nine seconds.

 

Although I've only briefly started it a couple of times since then (after fiddling with it in an attempt to diagnose and eliminate possible damage) it's running like crap!

 

Sunday and Monday's weather is my last chance to 'fiddle'...

If it's not running smoothly on Tuesday then it's destined to be trailered somewhere to someone...'cause I'm not about to go through the angst that Lane's experienced.   

Nor do I intend to again, Carl.

I think I almost understand what you're going through , Lane. I have a carb problem, I'm pretty sure, because of all the extra oil I have all of a sudden. Best of luck with your problem. At least the weather is starting to suck here so I don't get too jittery about taking a ride.

I have almost missed the best driving weather of the year.  When the car went into a coma it was still quite hot and humid.  We have now had a couple of freezes.  Weird weather for here, but it looks like the great driving season will be unusually short this fall.

Very good point Justin......

Yes it is, particularly considering it doesn't smoke until it's been running for a bit.  Given that Justin's scenario is less dire I will hang onto it tooth and nail.

What's wrong with this picture? You'll notice that one side has a shiny brass thing and the other, well, doesn't. The missing bit is the starter valve on #4 cylinder carb throat. While I don't remember removing it, at some point I must have. I found it today while disassembling the carb yet again to blow out the passages. If I can't find it in the garage - which is unlikely - I will order another one. It certainly bears a lot of resemblance to a smoking gun to me - but then I said that about the bad gasket, didn't I?

 

UPDATE: No luck finding the missing part in the garage.  Not surprising since it's apparently been out of the carb for 4-8 weeks.  Unfortunately neither Redline not Weber Carbs Direct list the part.  I may have to buy a whole new carb.  F**kin' wonderful.  Anybody have an old IDF laying around for parts?

 

Lane isn't that the IDF fuel inlet pipe? if so here is a link to said part for $9.75.
http://www.carburetion.com/Pro....aspx?Part=10525.023

 

Starter jet?

here is another site that may have what you are looking for.
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merc...amp;PartsectionID=60

and if it is the starter jet then this link.
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merc...ils.asp?PartNo=75605 &CategoryID=3&PartsectionID=60

Lane;

 

Perhaps this will be of some assistance:

 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...ewtopic.php?t=313015

 

-Art

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somehow, the Weber IDF doesn't look like one of those things some guy thought of in an 'aha!' moment and quickly sketched on the back of a cocktail napkin.

 

 

 

 

Jeffrey, the part I am talking about is on the opposite side of the carb underneath the plate used to block off where the choke used to be when you remove it.  It's referred to in the exploded carb diagram I have as the starter valve.  The diagram on the samba link that Art provided (same one from Mitch as I typed this) shows it as #73, just below those parts with the blue line around them.  It looks like the dellorto site that you provided the link to lists that part  (as #74).  I need to find out if they'll ship to the US.

Best of luck, I will have my fingers crossed for you.

Ok, parts ordered.  Thanks for the link, Jeffrey.

Just glad to help, I hope this fixes everything for you.

+1 to that.

Congrats Lane!

Let's not suffer from premature congratulations Tom.  I'll keep my fingers crossed until I know this solves it.  The symptoms I've seen, including an odd gas leak, the timeline, and my apparent ineptitude all make it look pretty convincing, though.

 

Once I get the parts in and see that it does, in fact, fix the problem I will still need to do a carb adjustment.  I've done that semi-successfully in the past, so hopefully I can get things right and enjoy the car again.

 

Lane, if you've never read this - or read it so long ago that you've forgotten about it - have another look before starting.

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...-carbs---mark-harney

 

Harney reduces the whole process to a series of logical steps, each of which is pretty simple to take on.

 

I am a complete know-nothing about Weber carbs - and about so many other things in life - but when I tried rejetting a few weeks ago, I was able to start with a complete mess and end up with a purring engine an hour later.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Lane, if your driving season is indeed over. You could box up the carbs and send them to Blackline Racing in Salt Lake (formally A. C. E.). I just sent mine for problems I couldn't deal with. They completely go thru the carbs and test run them on a engine for final adjusting. Total bill including return shipping was $273.05. Best running set of carbs I've ever had...

Is there hope for a page number 15 ????    Stay tuned......   

Driving season is never over here in Charleston, although the top may stay up more than not for a few months.

I seriously doubt that ACE will "test run them on a engine for final adjusting".

 

I would more believe that they run them on a flow bench which would allow them to far more accurately see what's going on and allow them to adjust things to a gnat's petutie to what your engine is capable of flowing.  At that point, it's all math, anyway.

 

Lane:  Good fortune in finding your missing part (or, more to the point, congratulations in finding that you HAVE a missing part!)

 

We've all done that - losing something critical that you didn't even know you had lost, so get the new one in and installed and let's all hope that this truly is is the missing link.

 

Good Luck!

"We've all done that - losing something critical that you didn't even know you had lost"......Paging Dr.Freud,... Dr. Freud, white courtesy phone please.

Paging Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!  Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard! 

 

 

I feel like the Three Stooges all rolled up into one - not so much that I did this but for how long it's taken to find it. 

 

It's weird, but something has been telling me all week to disassemble that carb and I would find the problem.

They run them on an engine Gordon...

Should be interesting to see if this solves it once and for all.

Ted

ACE is now Blackline Racing. Art sold the business to the McCallister Brothers (Justin and Coltin) in early 2013. They're still in the same shop in Murray (Salt Lake City), Utah-- same address, same phone number. Justin apprenticed under Art, and was his builder/mechanic for several years before purchasing the business. He's one of the good ones.

 

I started using ACE in 2005 for carb rebuilds, and progressed to making them my machine shop/builder for some of the crazier stuff I was doing since 2012 or so. I've had one engine rebuild under the ACE banner, and two each engines and transaxles under the Blackline banner. Either way, it was the same guys in the same shop, with the same level of care.

 

To answer Gordon's doubts about what happens at Blackline in regards to rebuilt carbs-- Dave (the ACE/Blackline carb guy for 10+ years) bolts rebuilt carbs on a shop engine on one of their test stands and sets the mixture and sync at idle, and makes sure everything is copacetic in regards to the accelerator pump squirt, main jetting, etc. They are run for no less than 10 minutes on the shop engine to make sure everything is OK once things get up to temperature. If you are buying a linkage from them, he'll set it up as well, before boxing the whole thing up, and shipping it out. A carb set from Blackline is pretty idiot-proof. I've had them do no less than 4 sets for me, and I've been there when he's been doing it for somebody else. It's a nice service, and part of what you get for the price of a rebuild. They'll also jet them however you'd like, or set them up as per their recommendations for your particular engine.

 

They're never going to be "spot-on" for a particular engine in a particular climate, but they're pretty darned close-- and way-the-heck better than what comes out of the box (which is pig-rich jetting). Nobody can set up carbs to be 100% perfect without an A:F meter hooked up, in the car-- but what they recommend is always within a jet size or two from perfect, and the mixture screws are already preset. If you are new to the hobby, or inexperienced with tuning-- this is invaluable.

 

This is not just IDFs-- they do Dellortos, Solexs, etc. as well. Dave and Art were the first people to figure out how to make the EMPI clones actually work (and make them work as well as the modern IDFs, actually). Street IDAs are a bit of a specialty-- they've been doing the extra progression ports forever. They've got the carb thing down to a science.

 

Just an FYI. In the instance of Blackline-- they aren't the biggest or the cheapest, but you really do get what you pay for. In this hobby, that is a rarity.

Lane, on my IDFs those parts don't come out. The valve is held in by a pressed in split washer. There is a spring and a rubber gasket and two brass parts in there. These parts are all part of the cold enrichment or choke circuit. You do have the choke block-off plates installed, correct? I'm surprised fuel isn't leaking out the side of your carb!

Re Stan's last reply. I'd like to set my own shop up like ACE/Black line and have an engine to test run carbs on. I am doing Weber IDF(preferred) and DRLA rebuilds now. I will have a small blast cabinet shortly to expedite the cleaning process. I just did a set of Dellortos that are going on a fresh motor for a steel 356. I will be adjusting these as well once the motor is in the car.

The split washer went "sproing!" a couple of times.  This time apparently the valve went flying and I didn't notice it  I have the other parts.  I did see a little gas seepage recently (for the first time) which prompted me to check.  That's how I found this.

Lane, can you take a picture from the top of the carb?

In a bit.  Right now I need breakfast 

 

I put the top brass piece, the spring, and the split washer back in when the stuff sprang out.  Since the other one was still in and the block-off plate was on I obviously didn't notice that the valve was missing.

Parts will be mailed to Lane tomorrow as I have spares courtesy of Jack Crosby. Correction no rubber gasket.

I'm excited for you Lane; this is the kind of thing you've been looking for.

I have had a little voice telling me all week to take that carb apart and the problem would become obvious.  I finally listened and there it was.  Trust your instincts.

OK, I stand corrected.  Guess I was just basing my opinion on what I see around New England.  There are a few carburetor shops around here (mostly catering to the racing scene, I'll admit) that do complete set-up of whatever carbs they deal with totally on a flow bench.  This also suits our dual-throat carbs to a Tee since each throat can be isolated and set up separately.

 

Thinking about it, though, depending on the investment any shop wants to make, having a test bed engine available would certainly be a cost-conscious way to go, as I would imagine that flow benches (and all of the associated stuff that goes with them) can't be cheap, either.

 

Anyway, thanks for the update Dsrtfx and Stan - I learn a lot on here!

 

Weekend and 60F weather is here - time to go for a ride and winterize Pearl's fuel system!

 

gn

Good on you ,Lane , way to stick with it!  I hope this fixes the problem.