Need HELP to get car into Canada

Can anyone in the community help me out here? I am trying to import a CMC Speedster from California to Toronto that is clearly older than 15 years old, but Cana. Cust. keeps giving me problems. I have all documentation needed, current Cali Title, a copy of the previous title, certificate of origin, service records, DMV records, yet they still refuse to let the car in. I have been to the border 4 times already and in the latest installment, all paper work was processed and I paid the taxes, and I just needed a final signature, then all of a sudden I was detained and interrogated for 2 hours. I do not have a criminal record and have been perfectly courteous and co-operative though the whole process yet I keep getting harassed.

It cleared US Cust. with no issues at all. The Cali title states the year as

Wonder if news article or perhaps something from state of FL stating that CMC ceased business (not sure if FL Attorney General forced them out or they filled Chaper 11) in 1994 (although I thought it was more like 1992) would help certify date of vehicle manf?

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2006-03-02/news/a-beastly-background

Wonder how much of the car could be taken apart to designated as parts?

I hadn't even thought about the approach of : they went out of business over 15 years ago so there's no way it can be newer. I'll try to find additional articles.

As for taking it appart. That would be a last resort and I'm not sure if it would work since almost every officer seems to know who I am now and apparently they have put me up on their pin-up board stating I need to produce a letter to get it over. I have counted 30 pieces of paper that I have dated over 15 years ago but they conveniently igonre them.

I am going to go down to the RIV office on Monday since it's a half hour from my house and will speak face to face with the manager that is apparently in charge of the decision. But I would like as much additional documentation and explanations as I can get in order to get this over with since I am paying storage on the vehicle.

I just feel that this is getting a little nutty since they don't seem to care to even listen to what I am explaining to them, even though it could make thier job easier and they wouldn't have to keep seeing me almost every day. I just want to get my car across, and am trying as hard as I can to not make anyone mad or make anyone's job difficult.

The 0000 year is what is throwing you off. It isn't just that the kit has to be more than 15 years old, the fine print says it needs to have been on the road for 15 years or more.

A one on one conversation may help you, and I encourage you to take that step.

The only other suggestion I can offer is to find out if your seller has the original title for the beetle (floor pan). Try to import it as such, and you may have more luck.

I live in Oshawa. I didn't want to take the risk of importing a car, so I brought one over in two pieces, the body and the frame separately as parts.

Good luck!

Adam,
When I had issues with the MV here in Pennsylvania, I learned to walk into the MV with a big smile and ask ...
"I wonder if you can help me" ?
Doesn't hurt rather than enter "locked and loaded" to do war which I also did too, only to meet a brick wall head on and having to return to another MV with the permagrin as above. Best of Luck ! ~Alan

Thanks for all the great advice, keep it coming!!!

The direct quote from the RIV is:

It has been touched on many times here. It is next to impossible. According the RIV list although it says Kit Cars OVER 15 years old, right next to that it says; NOT ADMISSIBLE.

Kit Cars LESS THAN
FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.
(assembled or
unassembled)
None are admissible

If it's a question of reading between the lines so be it. But this has been touched on many times here, do not take the chance. Trying to fight the system is an exercise in futility.

So where is the bottleneck? Could very well be that you don't have a proper VIN. The CDN Govt is very serious about VIN numbers so you need to get the proper VW Vin so that it can be tracked. If you can't you may very well find yourself trying to unload it back in the US.

The only issue they have now is proving it was assembled more than 15 years ago. I thought everything was ok the last time I was there since they entered all the info into the computer and I paid my taxes on it and was just waiting for a final signature. Then next thing I know I

What border crossing are you using? Would it be out of the question to try another? It may be as simple as the person(s) you have been dealing with. I have heard that the communication between crossings is limited. A friend recently brought a '65 beetle across the border as a "parts car". He did not export it from the US or import it to Canada. He paid duty and taxes based on the purchase price of the "parts car". They did not even come outside to look at the vehicle. This was a very shiney, complete, intact "parts car" that is now licenced and insured. Sometimes it is simply the luck of the draw.

In doing some more research, I have now found two copies of Certificates of Origins for them to compare to, both for new vehicles, one Sub., the other GM. Both clearly show a date issued and a model year for vehicle. I think these examples could be vital for comparison.

I will be going to the RIV Monday and hopefully clearing this issue and maybe setting precedence. I just wish there was some type of reference documentation I could use to show how to read Cali titles. I know this is a far shot, but does anyone have access to a copy of Polk's Motor Vehicle Registration Manual?

Adam I doubt that the Polk's Motor Vehicle Registration Manual will have a reference to replica kit cas as this manual is a knowledge base for production cars and base DMV laws for interstate title and registration.
Cal DMV certainly must have something in print pertaining to how kit replicas are titled. I assume that you just need to find an individual that is willing to take few minutes to help you resolve this issue.

Anyone here know someone that works in the Cal DMV ? ~Alan

When I spoke with the Cali DMV and they referred me to the Polk Manual saying it would explain that any kit car registered as SPCNS will have a year of 0000 and in cases such as this, you have to refer to the Certificate of Origin for year of vehicle manufacture.

I also asked them if they had anything I could reference explaining titles, but they said they didn't. Even if Cust. called the number I gave them, anyone from the DMV was willing to explain it. I just need someone willing to lend their ears for a couple of minutes.

I didn't know that there was reference to kit rpepluicas in Polk's Manual explaining that any kit car registered as SPCNS will have a year, I hope you are abbler to find a willing ear. (Would be nice though if you could find out what a Customs employee drives before inquiring) I remember Dave from Factory Five telling me that if they don't drive something interetsting, they have no place in any automotive related field. ~Alan

Adam, Alan's right when he says you have to find a sympathetic ear. Someone who feels good about taking the extra step to help you. Worked for me, but your problem is complicated by being international. Keep looking, keep smiling at the beauracrats and keep trying. It seems like you have more than enough documentation,(I call it ammo) and they must be educated. Good luck. Al

Update:

I FINALLY got the car across the border with no more issues. I met with the manager at RIV and he cleared everything up with Customs and with a little cheering from me, gave them a lecture to hopefully change situations like this in the future. The officers who previous harassed me avoided me for the most part and I had my paper work processed within 10 minutes. It was a nice relief to finally get it all taken care of after dealing with this situation for a week and a half and making five trips to the border. Who knows, maybe they were just sick of seeing me, but I refused to give up. Either way, if you have everything in order and you know you are right, never let bureaucrat bullies try to push you around.

If anyone in Canada ever tries to import a kit car that was assembled more than 15 years ago and runs into a roadblock, give me a shout and I

YEAH! .......Congrats Adam!

Congradulations,, Adam !!
You are victorious against our national bureucrats,, no easy feat for sure. Maybe we should think about a Canadian Cruise, to celebrate summer ?? Bit hard with the amount of realestate that we cover,, granted. I would love to cruise, Niagara-on-the Lake,, or St. Sauvuer with another Speedster or two this year.
Alan
Barrie, Ontario
CMC 359

Well... congrats. That's good news. Now the next step? Plates? It's difficult because of safety laws and the government uses the rules as a fine line to make it as difficult as possible. But now the next step, insurance (should be OK after a valuation) and getting a plate.

More power to you, Adam! Now you're one step closer to Speedster nirvana!

Peace - Out!

Congrats, Adam! You finally found someone who knows his job and is willing to do it! Keep smiling at the beauracrats and don't give up. You are one step closer to the madness.

I brought my old IM across with no real problems at the Windsor border crossing, but it was titled in Michigan as a '1966 VW' or whatever year it was (can't remember as I have sold it since'.

Even then, I was starting to get a hassle with a young female customs officer, but she finally threw up her hands when I kept insisting the car was a VW (as the legal paper work stated). An older male who knew what he was doing - and what I was doing - took over and cleared me through.

The speedster was outside on a flat bed in full view, but no one even came out to look at it. All they wanted was the 'proper paper work'.

Our most efficient customs department at work.