Need measurements for hardtop

With all this talk about hardtops and the non-availability of them, it is time to take some action. I need to gather some information from everyone who is willing to take three measurements for me on their speedster. I need to know the distance from the inside top edge of the windshield (right about the center support rod) to the inside top edge of the rear seat back and the passenger and drivers side front leading top edge of the rear seat back. The measurements should be the same for the passenger and drivers side front leading edge if your center windshield support is centered on the windshield.
I am in the process of converting an original hardtop to use on replicas. So far it looks as though the hardtop is about 1 1/2 inches too short for a replica, at least on a widebody CMC. I am planning to make it adjustable for the various brands of speedsters.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jim

You need to talk with Alan Merklin. He may already have a lot of this done for you (and more).

Actually, I am picking up where Alan left off. I bought the hardtop from him and am in the process of modifying it now. I have a plan in mind, but can not do anything further until I get a range of measurements to work from.

OK....get you some measurements tomorrow....

gn

Gordon,
Thank you. At least I can ensure that it will fit CMC speedsters.

Not everyone's windshield and seats will be in exactly the same place. That is one reason others have not offered hardtops for Speedster replicas.

Even so, I think it would be great to have a hardtop.

Call me Ishmael.....

The variable placement of a CMC-FF- JPS -VS windshield is no more than a + - of 3/8".
The correct placement is 3/8 to 1/2"" rearward of the wiper post "hats" on the cowl and the post holes are bored into the top of the fender, there is only so mush room under the dash to get a bolt and washer installed into the windshiels post nipple.
This variable is made up in the placement of top snaps onto the body and the thickness of the required weather-strip in the windshield bow. Hope this is of help. ~Alan

Alan,
As usual, you are a wealth of information. Do you know if the the distance from the dashboard to the "back seat" wall is the same on the various makes? I realize that windshield placement will vary the measurements by about 3/8", but since I only have a CMC body and mold, I can not verify the other makers passenger compartment size. Another concern is the arc of the rear wall. I am hoping that they are all the same. If not, it looks like it will be made to fit CMC models.

Michael,
I realize that the measurements will not be the same on everyones speedster. This is why I am looking for a "range" of measurements. The measurements are of the distance between the top of the windshield and the point at the top of the rear of the passenger compartment, not the seats. The mentioning of seat reference was for the "back seat" area.

Well if it will fit the CMC carw, will it also fit Vintage Speedsters?
It seems that the basic measurements are the same.

At least the construction manuals are the same.---Jack

Jack, Yes it should fit as a Vintage top fits on a CMC/FF car.

Jim, I'm waiting to see what you come up with! ~Alan

Alan,
Doesn't the top allow for a couple of inches of variation with the front of the top? I know that the one that I have is only glued to the header bow and is not a "predetermined" size.
It looks like I am going to just press on with the plan and hope that the passenger compartment size is the same on all of them. If not, at least myself and Wolfgang will have a hardtop that fits correctly.

Jack,
That is exactly what I am trying to determine. It all depends on the mold that is used to produce the body. Each manufacturer has slight variations within the body. Some people know the differences enough that they can actually see a basic shell and tell which brand of speedster it is.
The idea is to make it fit all of the brands. This can only be done by verifying the size of the passenger compartments of the various brands.
My main concern right now is to ensure that it will fit CMC models. If the others are not that much different, I was planning to make it available to owners of the other manufacturer's cars.

For 1990 era CMC: 52.375 inches from center (l-r) of windshield at the centerline of the frame to the edge of the body opening (at l-r) center.

Good to collect this sort of dimensional data rather than assuming that they all look pretty much the same.

Good luck with the project - a real service.

StanS

Sign me up for one! When will they be available?---Jack

I'd like one as well. Since I also have a cmc you probably won't need measurements but if there is anything I can do to help let me know.

Jim, there is extra material furnished on the top's forward windshield edge and gets trimmed back a bit to fit into the groove on the header.
If a windshield is set forward the 3/8" (against the wiper post hats on the cowl) then the forward edge of the side curtain flap comes up short and is not able to be fastened to the upper corner of the windshield frame. I don't bother with this fastener placement. Keep me in mind for possible a top too.

Stan,
Thanks for the info. I figure all the CMC models will be the same or within an inch of each other.
Alan,
If you want one, you will get one of the first batch that I make.
I am hoping to have the prototype completed within the next month and ready to splash a mold off of for the others. Right now I am on the fence about the rear "scoop" that is on it. It might be nice to use for a third brake light mounting, but probably not appealing to everyone. I know the one I make for myself will have it.
I am hoping to have a couple of them ready to take to Carlisle to test fit on a couple of different speedsters.
Jim

IMHO must owners have the stock body configuration and would want top use one w/o the scoop.

True, but the top that this was probably splashed off of had that there in the 50's, so it is period correct. The problem with using it as a 3rd brake light is when you want to remove the top. You'd need to make the wiring with some sort of disconnect.

I'd prefer without the scoop but will take one either way I'm sure.

this project is now a reality! Are you taking orders? Have you figured out a ball-park price yet?

I would think Jim will need to complete the alterations before being able to set a buy price.

Alan,
As usual you are exactly right. The biggest hurdle looks to be the rear window. It will be made of Plexiglass or Lexan. Another option is to start searching wrecking yard to find a back windshield that is close to the same dimensions and alter the hardtop to accept that glass. This will allow the use of real glass with a replacement being available from just about any auto glass store. Until I can find a source for the rear window, I will not be able to set a price.
I am absolutely certain though that I can produce a quality built hardtop for a fraction of the $1450 price tag that fibersteel wants for the Plasticon hardtop.
As soon as the top is done, then it will be onto the sliding side curtains.

So far I have received inputs from 3 members, all of which own CMC speedsters. I am planning to start cutting and molding next weekend, so hopefully I can gain more measurement inputs before then. If not, it looks I will be building the hardtop to specifically fit CMC speedsters.

How about a few VS,JPS and IM guys take a minute to get the measurements to Jim?
There's been a lot of past discussions regarding....
"If I could find a hard top " here's your chance.

Jim:

Several (real) cars in the metro-Boston TYP356 club have those original hard tops and they all have the "scoop" at the top. Don't know why, just do. I could go either way.

What the hell......count me in for one, too! Something else to consider on mine (there's always something, right?) is my third brake light mounted on the rear cowl. I have 2-7/8" between the forward edge of the third light and the forward edge of the rear seat back lip (that is the area that the top snaps sit in). Hopefully, the rear edge of the top will not interfere, but if it does, that's what a sawzall and additional fiberglass is for.

Another thing to consider is that it might be far easier to simply make up a different set of side windows for the hardtop to make them fit just so. I have small bends in my current side windows right at the lower front corners to make them conform to the windshield frame shape and fit better. A few seconds with a heat gun can do wonders for fit. Same could be said for the trailing edges if the Hd Top shape is slightly different from the soft top. New sides = who cares?

gn

Jim:

Am I one of the three?

Kevin,
Send me some measurements. Things are starting to slow down a little where I can actually get things finished. I am kind of thinking that the individuals who help me with this project by sending me measurements are considered preferred customers.
PS: And no, I have not forget the rear deck lid. So far I have rounded up 4 extra hibachis and will be starting the modifying real soon.

Gordon,
As soon as I get the prototype done, I can get some additional measurements from you to see if it will need to be altered for the brake light or not. The good part about fiberglass is that it can always be altered pretty easily before finishing.

I have a 1997 VS, when I get home tommarow I will post the measurements.Thanks

Where's Crestview, FL?

Maybe I can make a run down for a personal measurements appointment!

gn

Gordon,
About 480 miles from Beaufort(7-1/2 hours). I am located off of I-10 between Pensacola and Panama City Beach. The locals like to refer to it as LA (lower alabama). I periodically make drives up north to WV to visit family and pick up vehicles along the way. Next trip I will try to drop by, if you are not up north.

1997 VS center measurement is 52 5/8". I am a bit confused about the side measurement is that taken from the inside edge of the windshield frame at the center post to the leading edge of the rear door jambs? If so my side measurements are not even 39 5/8' and 40 1/4',Thanks again.By the way I like the scoop.

Sawzall, Gordo? Really! Ok, so it does come in handy. Here's Magic Merklin and yours truly coming up a half cubit short on Blackie. Nothing a bit of glass work won't fix (and coming up with a window). Trouble was when we lined up the b-pillar, the rear of the top came up short on the body. There was a tad of interference with the roll bar also.
I sorta wouldn't mind one. A set of homemade plexi windows would be a cinch. Hey! Maybe one could get a set of those sliders from fibersteel! :)

Jim: howzabout a 3/4 shot like mine. I'd like to see how you are doing with it.

~WB

Oscar,
Thanks for the input. Looks as though the VS and CMC are pretty close to being the same.

Bill,
A 3/4 shot would be pretty much the same as your pics, except mine would be prowler purple. I have been doing all the work on paper before I start doing any physical work on it. Once I have a complete plan that looks good on paper with all the bugs worked out, then I am planning to start on the physical side of the project. The current plan is to take all the data that I have recieved by Friday and using it to make the adjustability of the hardtop. The physical work on the actual hardtop will begin on Saturday afternoon.

oooo - i'm excited about this.

Wild Bill: I see you and Alan have cornered the market on blue painter's tape ;>)