new 2110 CB performance Engines

I was wondering if hydraulic lifters were an option on the 2110 or 2160 IM / CB performance engines...the 2000 mile valve lifter adjustment is not many miles and was wondering if hydraulic valve lifters were a potential option on these high performance engines... any comments...?

I hate to speak about things I dont know much about, but I believe CB has stopped using those nasty little hydraulic lifters in any performance engine.

When I ordered mine I asked Pat about them because a good friend had them in his 2110. Pat's reply was something like...How many miles a year are you going to drive the car? About 5000? If that is the case, you will be adjusting the valves ONCE a year.

Adjusting the valves is easy even if you need to drop the exhaust. I (designed is the wrong word) cobbeled together a 2x4 device that sits on the floor jack that supports the exhaust system making it a quick, one person job. I can drop the exhaust, adjust the valves and reinstall the exhaust in 45 minutes or less. Usually about 15 minutes less.

I can sell the design drawings if you are interested or shoot you a picture. I dont really have any drawings, it is basically a 2x4 with 2x4s built up under the mufflers and a small 2x4 block on the bottom side in the center of the long 2x4 that sits on the jack.

Don't mess with the hydraulic lifters.

Bob, Dale's right, the valve adjustment procedure, usually done at 3,000 mile intervals, is not difficult to learn. I purchased John Muir's Book, "How to keep your Volkswagen Alive" and found the instructions easy enough for anyone to follow. This book, which is as entertaining as it is informative, will walk you through the procedure and soon you will be an expert.
John
ps. The book can be purchased by going to the "library" tab on this website

Hydraulic lifters in a Type 1

Should one of them fail...even a bit of dirt in it the fix is to pull the engine, disassemble it including splitting the case to access $9 lifter!..I'll spend a half hour adjusting valves.

I'll testify to that Alan. My first (3 months old before it imploded) VS mexi-crap engine had Hydr Lifters... DO NOT even dream of it. And yes, you may have to split the case if a lifter is stuck..

Biggs, I am not the expert either.. but as Dale said, 3000 miles and maybe an hour the first time,then 15-45 minutes after that is about right. I have not done the cold adjustment for my new 2110, but from Dale, and other's perspective it sounds like a piece of cake after you make an IM Exhaust Horse (Patent Pending D. Bates).

Go to CB Perf's site and surf his turnkey pages... some where you will find a link to his Maint. tips. It tells how to set the 2110 cold in Big Bird terms (Made for guys like me). I have a copy of it in my engine care package from Pat Downs. It, and the oil change is explained in double spaced, 5 paragraphs, and a barely two pages. It's that simple and Pat just lays it out for you (me, us).

I sure think you are making the right moves... the hydraulics would be the first bad one in my opinion. And at it's price, that CB 2110 really is a good pick. My engine is going in tomorrow.. this Thursday you can call me at IM and see what I think! Call me again on Monday at IM as I do the valves "by feel" with HR and Kevin showing me the way.

Jim

Jim

Jim, you put the 2110 in your IM right? I'm getting old and can't remember where I saw the Dyno sheet; can you help an old guy out? I tossed and turned trying to figure which engine to go with between the 2110 and the 1915, cost wasn

Found the dyno, thanks.........

Pat-

This is only my opinion, but look hard at a 2110. The longer stroke will give you better torque in (roughly) the same displacement, and the smaller bores should be easier to cool. Torque is where it's at.

Hi Pat,

I have been following your build too. Congratualtions. I don't really know enough to give a comparison on the two engines as far as wear/relaibility. I suppose I could have had any engine in the spectrum, but on IM's build list they have the 1776, then a 2110, then a 2165, and the big daddy 2332. Henry will install anything, T4s, 911s, etc. But, I just thought that if he is offering certain engines on his basic build list, then he must have a high degree of confidence in that engine...... thus the 2110 for me. I read enough from owners to know that these days... well a 2110 is a nice mid level reliable build (I mean that in the sense that many T-1s are in the 2.2 -2.3 L range now and running reliabily). I think the 'rumor' is probably dated thinking.. A 2110 used to be a big engine... now days I would compare it to having a crate 350 chevy driver built (with the right builder(s) and using new stroker ready cases.

In my opinion, Pat Downs does an outstanding job of putting together a package engine. I think he has it down to the numbers.. and you will see about all of his 2110s built like Bill's, Brooks', and mine run the same numbers +- a teeny bit. And ours are not killer builds as far as opened up heads, valve size, and cams go... just good solid builds with everything matching, and good parts (the cliche is true!). They run very strong. Balance Pat. I'll bet you get that from Pat Downs on any engine he builds.

That says nothing negative about your pick.. Pat has your engine as a turnkey feature on his site. I think Pat has it out there for a reason, and a good one. It probably is a perfect pick. I just don't have the experience to say one way or another as far as spending more for the 2110. There is the saying, get more engine than you think you need. JohnLeader put it as; find the perfect engine for you, then go up a notch, maybe two.

I drove Bill Steele's Roadster with the same engine that is being installed in mine tomorrow. It was as smooth and sweet running in town as a brand new Super Beetle... great manners. But, it accelerates and comes up on that torque in a heartbeat when you give the throttle a push. And that's mated to a 3:44. I will have the same set up. I mean it really gets up on that high gearing with it's torque and passes that line between gearing/push smoothly. I mean very sweet and very fast.

Someone posted a great remark in that messy T-1/T-4 thread... basically they were saying that 2110s were built now to use that torque for better spreads in gears and/or R&P. I found that to be true with Bill's 2110.

I ordered that CB AL Supercase at an extra $500 (give or take) on Pat Down's recommendation. It is supposed to take the stroke wear, via the stronger and special stroker built case. It weighs about 40LBs more (I think) but if you are looking for a high milage case.. then I would call Pat about it. My Engine Build Specs are under "My Build" in General threads. My Dyno sheet is below.

If $$ are not an issue, then I would go with a 2110 minimum... that's just my way of thinking now, but is not the gospel. I drove a 1776 3 years and loved it. I am just saying if you are popping for coin on a nice custom built car, then why not get more engine? The biggest mistake many owners make is buying too little engine for their needs. I felt a little worried about not going with a 2332 with my Speedster. Driving Bill's 2110 made me feel at ease about that choice.

Anyway, you asked for an opinion....! It's not the gospel, and I am no expert. I just listened to Pat Downs and Henry & figured they knew more than I'll learn in three lifetimes. Make that 20 lifetimes.

Jim

Doh!

Thanks for the feedback guys...about the hydraulic lifters that is... It was just a thought.

Dale...please send a picture of the rig you made to drop and lift the exhaust. The IM exhaust was the one issue I was thinking of, how to take it off and put it on by yourself. I was thinking floor jack, but didn't figure out how I was going to balance it/ secure it. It is just large enough that it would be tough to try to hold it in place to get the bolt holes lined up.

Does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to lift the car up, floor jack and jack stands, ramps, or what???? If you use ramps, do you just back the car up onto them, can you do this? or is it better to jack the car up one side at a time onto jack stands, or will this damage it? Suggestions or recommendations are appreciated here. I don't want to screw up the Speedster. Please advise.

I am not a complete idiot, just want to be careful...All of my previous experience (at least mechanically) is with metal body cars with front engines.

Oh..Jim..did you relocate to Vancouver? Thanks for the comments...I'm not going with the hydraulic lifters, just inquiring...I guess it would be a BAD idea....Good luck on the engine install and test drive.

Waiting to see more pics posted of the almost finished product.

Sorry Robert, Didn't mean to steal your post. Thanks for the words Jim, I'll have to do some extra thinking...........

,Pat

Don't think, just get the 2,110 and get it over with........

Gordon
One of the "2,110 Speedstah Guys" in Rhode Island

Biggs, I fly up to Inter-Mecca on Thursday, and will drive it through the weekend. The following Monday we will do a service, details, and check for loose stuff. I will start the trip south with Scott on Weds.

Pat whatever you go with I am sure it will be the right fit. I like Dale's 2165 too... it ran super nice and is stronger than a 2110, more torque and HP... Chevy Rods, etc.

Jim
2110 Guy to be.

Jim, I have to agree with you. For all-around driveability, good power, good gas mileage and durability it's a great choice. That said, I have had dreams of a 2 liter turbo motor, with FI, but that's another story.

ron, follow your dream.

Gentleman,

While I only have approx 75miles on my new 2332 engine w/wedge heads I will say its impressive. The pull around 3000 rpm is great! I had the 2110 from CB but was looking for that little extra. Its early in the game but I think this is it.

My one issue is a minor "bog" when hitting the gas out of first gear. I am thinking alittle tuning will take care of this. more to come

Update on hyd. lifters...well the latest speedster I purchased has a 1776 Gene Berg hyd lifter motor sure as my previous posts there is one now one bad lifter that is lazy pumping up..hence this motor gets tossed out this weekend. It's a shame to do so but not worth the ulcers in having it happen again . 3000 mile valve adjustments sure look better than a new motor!

Thanks for sharing that Alan. I wonder if we will ever see a high perf T-1 with Hyd lifters?

Yeah, I went through that with a 1776 Hyd Mexicrate. Spilitting the case for that cured me on hyd lifters. So, what is the thinking on Hyd lifters on a mid size Hi-Perf Type IV?

No problem as mentioned on the Type IV, the Raby motor I had in the blue speedster developed a valve train problem ... I'll confess I had a part in the * "why" this a happened and was no fault of RAT INC. ( only me myself and I ) I had to replace a lifter took a whopping 15 minutes to jack the car up remove the valve cover and rocker arm assembly to reach in and pull out the lifter.
So to answer your question.... yes in a type four they are great.

__________________________

* I had a leaky push rod seal (on the type IV you don't have to pull a head to gain access) I pulled the rockers assembly off of the head, after the R & I lifter, I set the push rods back into the head Since they are set in horizontal, I somehow managed to allow the push rod to drop off a bit of center position and rest on the upper lip on the lifter and was not seated on center on the lifter, it jumped under high rpm's and played havoc with that lifter.

I considered a IV this last time. I just copied your post for my files.. something to ponder on if I ever need another engine. Thanks, that was educational.

Been awhile since I have played with Type I VW motors but hydraulic lifters in most air cooled motors are not a good idea.

In Type IVs, which I am more familiar with, they float at high rpms. They are fine in low revving bus motors but in a performance motor not recommended.

I disagree with the "floating" I had a Raby Type IV motor that ran some very impressive higher rpm's w/o any noted lifter "floating" Are you referring to valve floating? That would be a valve spring that is not strong enough

Alan, My engine that you experienced was NOT equipped with hydro lifters..... NONE of mine are- its not even an option.

Due to the type 1 case design you have to split the case to get to a faulty lifter...On the type IV you just pull the rocker arm assembly and fish it out with a piece of wire.