New 550 build - kitman

@ALB posted:

@DannyP said...

I realize that most? all? Spyder use factory spindles; I was only mentioning the components that widened front track for information's sake.  Do you know if the different 5x 205 front brake kits push the wheels out (roughly) the same amount, or is it different with each specific brand of kit?  I imagine they're all close to the same, but as I said, I don't know that much about them.

According to my research, they’re all different. From 1/8” for the cast iron “Zero Offset” boat anchors to 1-1/2”.

@LI-Rick posted:

Take @dlearl476 advice to heart.

It’s not my advice, it’s info Danny posted after my front disc debacle. btw, thanks again Danny, I would have been so pissed if I’d installed those brakes John sold me only to have them not fit.

I guess I should have said wide5(5 x 205) brake kits using stock drum brake spindles.

Any ball-joint brake kit using stock spindles MUST push the wheels out by some measure, due to the caliper bracket being thicker than the drum backing plate. Also the space that exists between the disc and the wheel hub is smaller than almost all calipers. The wheel hub/bolt pattern has to be thick enough to support the wheel without flexing or breaking.

I think a "zero offset" brake could be made, but it would require a complicated/custom bracket AND machining the back side of the spindle. And not having the caliper interfere with the ball joints or steering arm.

The original disc brakes that(Dunlop??) and Porsche came up with were annular. The disc was attached to the wide5 hub at the OUTSIDE and the caliper was inside the disc. Neat arrangement.

Full article:

https://jalopnik.com/porsche-p...street-ca-1851583007

I’m sure I’m missing something, but I don’t understand why someone doesn’t make a disc brake spindle that doesn’t require an adapter plate for the caliper. Perhaps it’s the clearance issues you cite, but there are several drop spindle/disc brake set ups that don’t require the adaptor, the calipers mount directly to the spindles.

I considered using them, and raising my beam  to compensate, for that reason alone. In the end, I just bought new german drums all around.

I guess somebody needs to have a bunch of parts in hand and precisely measure them all.

There are kits that use the KG factory disc spindles, but I don't think any of them are for wide5 bolt pattern. I think they are all for 4 or 5 x 130. Or the VW van pattern of 5 x 112. Or Ford or Chevy.

I believe you're correct regarding Wide 5 brakes and drum-brake spindles, Danny. I've never seen a set that uses Ghia spindles, and if there was I wouldn't want them -- the weight difference between a Beetle drum brake spindle and a Ghia disc brake must be 3-5 lbs per side. That's not rotating weight, but it is all unsprung.

I had a long thing all typed up, but the short version is that you and David are right. Getting a wide-5 rotor and a decent caliper to fit without pushing the wheels out would almost have to mean getting new spindles made with a different caliper mount --- probably moved at least a half inch in, towards the center of the car.

It's a lot easier to just narrow the beam.

@550aus said he might be going with Vredestein tires, size 175/70F and 185/70R on 4.5 and 5.5 steel wide 5s.

That being said, those tires are taller than what the average joe runs on a Spyder. I would think it would be to his advantage to go with a narrower beam to mitigate tire rubbing on the fronts. Running the Vintage 190s would help, I run them but I still rub on hard left turns and I'm running 185/65s up front.

@550 Phil Aren't you running the taller Vredesteins on your car? Do they rub?

So many choices. I do like the look of a taller tire on these cars.

I have KG brakes. They're 4x130.

BTW, don't think I'm ignoring you lot, all this info is being taken on board 😄

SoCal sells this AC Industries kit that includes standard height spindles. No word on offset, but I’d suppose close to zero. While these brakes would save you some of the weight of the adaptors, they’re still the heavy cast iron hubs. They mention needing particular tie rods which I assume it to address clearance issues.

@dlearl476 that looks identical to their other conversion kit, but with the modified spindle instead of the extra caliper bracket. You should hit them up for a job in product development.

That must be a relatively new addition to the product line? Funny that they don't mention the offset situation though?

So, I decided to bolt some stuff together and see where it sat, to give me an idea of wheel location etc.

I reckon it's pretty good as is. I'll probably run a 155 up front as per the Beck wheel and tyre recommendation. The wheel as it is, seems to sit nicely inside the guard with a bit less than .5° camber at ride height or thereabouts.

I understand where people are coming from with regards to wheel choice etc, but I'm not in that situation. I actually prefer the look of the skinny steel rims, and spacers aren't allowed in Australia.

No word on whether any of these kits are zero offset or adds width, but these might work IF you have KG disc spindles but want wide5.

For 1966 only:

https://socalautoparts.com/pro...ersion-kit-for-1966/

There is also a kit for 67-68 spindles:

https://socalautoparts.com/pro...onversion-kit-67-68/

This kit appears to be the winner for LATE ball joint disc spindles. Cheap too:

https://socalautoparts.com/pro...-77-bug-ghia-type-3/

David, the difference in the tie rod is because the tie rods got bigger on later cars. The later tie rod/spindle has a tapered 12mm stud instead of the earlier 10mm.

@550aus posted:

I reckon it's pretty good as is. I'll probably run a 155 up front as per the Beck wheel and tyre recommendation. The wheel as it is, seems to sit nicely inside the guard with a bit less than .5° camber at ride height or thereabouts.

I run -1.5 degrees camber, but that's me. I really like the front end to bite when I turn in. I run 1/16" total toe-in as well.

I also run 185/65R15 in the front. When I replace them, I'll be running 175/70 and 185/70 Vred Sprint Classics.

I like the way the car looks versus the skinny 155R15s. I have no rubbing, my ride height is low, and have a custom-made-by-me 16mm anti-sway bar. I also use the V190 aluminum wheels, and have a 2" narrowed beam with Airkewld 4 piston discs up front. The combo of the 2" narrowing and Airkewld brakes puts the wheels in a stock width or maybe a 1/2" total track width narrower.

The car sits just low enough to look and handle well without bottoming. Yes, I have an LED backup light under there.

@550aus posted:

I believe they run a stock width beam on a Beck unless you want to use the alloy wheel option?

correct, stock width is our standard, narrowed on custom order (or if we know you're running allows or Fuchs, we'll highly recommend it)

@DannyP yours does have a nice stance 👍

I don't think I can get more than .5° with the stock adjusters currently fitted? I think I read there are aftermarket adjusters which allow for more.

My Spyder (Gen 1 Beck) was pretty low. When I bought it, it had standard VW tires on it. (165/70-R15) It rubbed a lot. Especially turning sharply in reverse (which I never figured out)

After I put the sizes Carey recommends on it, it was fine. It only rubbed in reverse if I hit a bump while the steering was cranked.

@550aus posted:

@DannyP yours does have a nice stance 👍

I don't think I can get more than .5° with the stock adjusters currently fitted? I think I read there are aftermarket adjusters which allow for more.

https://www.cip1.ca/search-res...20camber%20adjusters

@ALB cheers 👍