New Cooling Fan Design

Obviously, I'm a compleate idiot: can't see how this would pull air into the fan housing.

Looks interesting. Would have liked to read Jake Raby’s take on it. Also would have like to hear about it before I did my shroud. Having a Spyder, I think I’d have to pull it all apart again to replace the fan. I may buy one anyway, just to have it for next time I take it apart.

As referenced in the thread, my welded/balanced fan has a bit of runout in it when I installed it. It was a bit of a trick to keep it from rubbing the shroud.

@edsnova posted:

Obviously, I'm a compleate idiot: can't see how this would pull air into the fan housing.

I wish I was smart enough to explain it. There’s some good info in the Samba thread.

My best shot: Imagine a side view with the hub portion facing us pointed down. See how it resembles a tornado? Now imagine the vortex it would create if it were spinning. Like a tornado, skinny at the bottom, widening as it goes up, eventually spreading out perpendicular to the axis of the spin.  

Also, the smaller, shallower vanes towards the center are moving slower than the larger, deeper  vanes towards the edge of the fan, which would create a suction/Venturi effect.

I'm thinking it pumps air because of centrifugal force. The air is pulled to the outer edge of the fan because it is spinning more rapidly there than the center.

I suspect @Stan Galat knows more about how fans work than most of us. Let's see if he weighs in.

Fan design is an entire speciality in the mechanical engineering discipline. Fan impellers are air pumps and the fluid dynamics of it get really complicated, really fast.

That being said, the weakest argument I can think of is, "if it's such a good idea, why didn't the Sainted German Engineers do it?" Again (for the kids from Pekin smoking weed in the back of the class) - the Sainted German Engineers designed these about 80 -90 years ago to be quick and cheap to manufacture and operate. What they came up with was elegant and clever, but very, very far from perfect. There is room for improvement in every system. Not "almost every system" - every one of them.

The fan wheels are clearly one of those things. They can (and do) explode at higher RPM. The hub centers can rip out, due to the high weight and high load of the air they are moving. They're surprisingly nice, but there is room for improvement.

Does it take an enormous R&D facility to build a better fan wheel? I doubt it. I believe that the DTM works as well or better than the VW shroud, and it's a cheesy chunk of fobergass with some pieces of aluminum badly riveted somewhat randomly to the inside.

Is Adrig's fan an improvement over the VW wheel? It's intriguing, for sure, and daring. I've got zero issue with his choice of fan-wheel type - there are a lot of ways to move air, and this one is a proven radial (centrifugal) design. The lightweight plastic material is bold - I would think that it would greatly improve throttle response, much like having a lightened flywheel does. I'm most worried about the hub center ripping out of the wheel, since it's plastic with no insert - but it's not a deal-breaker for me.

All in all, I'd rather somebody else be the guinea pig, but if people buy these and they work, it moves the hobby ahead. This isn't EMPI pumping out millions of the same bad part - if the fan doesn't live up to the promise, I'd suspect  Adrig will simply stop selling them and the whole thing will die.

To me, anybody willing to spend any amount of effort trying to make a weird, archaic, obsolete, dead-end engine better is to be applauded.

looks like a Dyson impeller to me...Dysons really suck.

I’m surprised there isn’t any curvature to the blades, but what do I know?  I’m guessing manufacturing cost.  For $89, I’m willing to try it.

eta: Just ordered one.

Stan said “I'm most worried about the hub center ripping out of the wheel, since it's plastic with no insert - but it's not a deal-breaker for me.”

The fan on a BMW 2002 is nothing but HDPE and it’s fine. Granted, it’s held on by 3-4 bolts to the water pump flange, but still. I’m sure the people that Adrig is having manufacture these know what they’re doing, and properly torqued they should be fine.

I think the bigger problem with the speedster is the air inlet, not the fan itself. And I'm referring to the single hibachi grill opening. 

I genuinely hope the fan works better and Adrig as something worthwhile.  Kudos to him for trying.  I'd have no problem getting one, if it proves out.  the "D" key-in plastic only, does concern me a little for longevity..

I'm thinking the engine compartment lid changing to a twin-grill opening would solve more of the cooling issues.     Yeah I know its not true to the speedster.. but the SGE's  made this change on later model 356's for a reason. Style? performance? (I don't think it was cost reduction as 2 grills cost more than 1, so I bet performance)    Just my .01

@Wrenn Smith posted:

I think the bigger problem with the speedster is the air inlet, not the fan itself. And I'm referring to the single hibachi grill opening.

I'm thinking the engine compartment lid changing to a twin-grill opening would solve more of the cooling issues. 

I agree that the Adrig fan is interesting. Since my car is doing fine with the current setup I don't think I'll be trying it out, though.

Regarding the single vs twin hibachi grill opening, don't discount the addition of louvers to a single grill hood to get more airflow. I personally like the looks a lot more than the twin grills.

Sure, I know what you're going to say, "Speedsters never came with louvers and the picture of the red car isn't fair because it's a Super 90." I guess technically you would be right, but I'm just comparing the aesthetics. Wink, wink, nudge nudge.

Your car is so righteous, @Michael Pickett, that I'm going to start calling you "Reverend".

World, meet The Right Reverend Pickett.

Put your hands on the louvers, brothers and sisters. Can you FEEL the power?

@Michael Pickett posted:

Put your hands on the louvers, brothers and sisters. Can you FEEL the power?

I can Reverend Picket, I CAN!

@Michael Pickett posted:

I agree that the Adrig fan is interesting. Since my car is doing fine with the current setup I don't think I'll be trying it out, though.

Regarding the single vs twin hibachi grill opening, don't discount the addition of louvers to a single grill hood to get more airflow. I personally like the looks a lot more than the twin grills.

Sure, I know what you're going to say, "Speedsters never came with louvers and the picture of the red car isn't fair because it's a Super 90." I guess technically you would be right, but I'm just comparing the aesthetics. Wink, wink, nudge nudge.

I couldn't agree more. They did indeed have louvers on some of those Carreras with the fancy 4-cam, right?

@DannyP posted:

I couldn't agree more. They did indeed have louvers on some of those Carreras with the fancy 4-cam, right?

I don’t know if they came that way from the factory, but every factory race car, and every customer car that was raced that I’ve ever seen had them.

The only ones I seen that didn’t have them were ones that were over-restored garage queens.

Dear Reverend Pickett,

I think the louvers are just fine... (and what you've done with your car is fantastic.)

I would counter with similar quality image to compare with your Hawaiian sunset beauty...

BTW if you ever had the sudden urge to visit NC and do the louvers on my engine lid, I'll be quite happy with louvers..   

Cheers

I like louvers...

And beehives.  Bob, you're the Canadian Vince.

@Wrenn Smith posted:

BTW, if you ever had the sudden urge to visit NC and do the louvers on my engine lid, I'll be quite happy with louvers..   

Cheers

Be careful, I might show up someday. I'm a born and raised North Carolinian (Durham) and we've got relatives all over the state. To be rather than to seem!

Mr Pickett...me to NC native that is.  if the car was built, I could leave the shop and be in Brevard in 1hr or 4 depending on how many twisty roads are desired between...  the build needs a little more than the 40hrs to complete.  see you soon 😜🔧

If you're that close to Brevard you need to join us for the Tour de Smo' at the end of September.  Take a glance at the details in the Events forum.  Even if your car isn't ready you'd have a good time.

This same message goes to all SOCers in the western NC/SC/east TN/north GA areas.

@Lane Anderson posted:

And beehives.  Bob, you're the Canadian Vince.

But without the crass. I do love Vince though.

Vince and GERD make a great pair.  They always livened up this place...

I would love to see if this design is effective; I believe I haven't been able to find real world reviews from folks who've installed it, not even on The Samba.

@Impala posted:

I would love to see if this design is effective; I believe I haven't been able to find real world reviews from folks who've installed it, not even on The Samba.

It's too new- last time I read the thread about it none had been sold.

@DannyP posted:

But without the crass. I do love Vince though.

vince is alive and well(posted recently) saw him at the TDF in France..Gerd havent seen him.

This is how you do it right.

To say it is lighter than the original fan is an understatement. I’d be surprised if it weighs 12oz.

Kudos to Andrig again for backing up his product.  the steel hub would address my concerns with "the "D" key-in plastic only" part of the design.   Again, I genuinely hope he has success with this.

Me too. I wish him luck and lots of happy customers.

What does it sound like?

I really like the sound of my 911 fan. Not like the VW fan at all. More of a smooth whoosh than then the VW "sound".

I haven’t put it in yet. Probably won’t until this winter.