Ah, music to my ears; the usage of such fine words as "wanker".
Jeff, are you British per chance? Living in one of the colonies (you mentioned an island life)?
Jim.
Fiberglass tooling is VERY expensive if you get a good mold maker to do it. Crappy moldscrack in short order and leave flaws in the final product.
I paid over 3,000.00 just to have an extra DTM mold made, and thats a small cooling system shroud. Imagine a complete car.
I paid over 3,000.00 just to have an extra DTM mold made, and thats a small cooling system shroud. Imagine a complete car.
No dice so far. I have a feeling you're right and I won't hear back. The web site was pretty hokey to be honest. And anyone who puts up a car website with a single photo is a bit of a "wanker" anyway. Somethings are just signs. Contrast that with the guys who do the Cobra bodies in aluminum, they routinely post 120+ photos of the bodies under development.
Of course none of that changes the overall concept that I wanted to toss out for consideration, which is a low-frills, moderate cost, japanese (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), daily driver, coupe bodied car. :) I've heard, "Yes, love it.", "Love it, but I want a VW (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is).", "Go buy a rusty coupe and cobble it together until it falls apart in 5 years". But overall, the desire for a coupe body has been consistent in the feedback.
I've asked the guys at Specialty Autoworks who do the (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) Roadster what their thoughts are, and if something like a no frills car that was essentially a roadster with a hardtop and the (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) would be workable. IE only take the top off for service (access to the mid engine bay). I'll let you know what Steve says.
In the spirit of summarizing the close of this discussion, I think I recorded 4-5 "I'd buy a coupe for a daily driver if there was a reasonably priced/quality one to choose from". Anyone else want to weigh in on that topic and say which (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) you'd prefer?
-Jeff
Of course none of that changes the overall concept that I wanted to toss out for consideration, which is a low-frills, moderate cost, japanese (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), daily driver, coupe bodied car. :) I've heard, "Yes, love it.", "Love it, but I want a VW (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is).", "Go buy a rusty coupe and cobble it together until it falls apart in 5 years". But overall, the desire for a coupe body has been consistent in the feedback.
I've asked the guys at Specialty Autoworks who do the (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) Roadster what their thoughts are, and if something like a no frills car that was essentially a roadster with a hardtop and the (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) would be workable. IE only take the top off for service (access to the mid engine bay). I'll let you know what Steve says.
In the spirit of summarizing the close of this discussion, I think I recorded 4-5 "I'd buy a coupe for a daily driver if there was a reasonably priced/quality one to choose from". Anyone else want to weigh in on that topic and say which (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is), (leave as is) you'd prefer?
-Jeff
I'm Canadian actually, but living in the British West Indies and surrounded by Canadians with too much sun, Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh expats. :)
My use of "wanker" was in relation to it being an english company. Although admittedly two of my favorite brit expressions are "wanker and "its a bit dodgy". I've noticed we have no translation in north american english for the utilitarian english word "dodgy".
BTW, if you ever have a discussion about weight loss and you say to a brit you went down a pant size, they'll find it uproariously funny. They also seem to enjoy the "fanny packs" many tourists wear.
Back on the topic of mold costs. I would expect, as a business person, that a proper mold for a coupe or roadster would cost in the region of $50K-$75K depending on the complexity. That doesn't seem astronomical to me as a business cost, although certainly beyond reason for an individual. Is that the kind of number people are thinking?
In doing some research I have found a number of industrial firms that specialize in mold making in fibreglass and verious plastics. There is also the entire boat building industry. I suspect this is something that could be contracted to seasoned experts.
-Jeff
-Jeff
My use of "wanker" was in relation to it being an english company. Although admittedly two of my favorite brit expressions are "wanker and "its a bit dodgy". I've noticed we have no translation in north american english for the utilitarian english word "dodgy".
BTW, if you ever have a discussion about weight loss and you say to a brit you went down a pant size, they'll find it uproariously funny. They also seem to enjoy the "fanny packs" many tourists wear.
Back on the topic of mold costs. I would expect, as a business person, that a proper mold for a coupe or roadster would cost in the region of $50K-$75K depending on the complexity. That doesn't seem astronomical to me as a business cost, although certainly beyond reason for an individual. Is that the kind of number people are thinking?
In doing some research I have found a number of industrial firms that specialize in mold making in fibreglass and verious plastics. There is also the entire boat building industry. I suspect this is something that could be contracted to seasoned experts.
-Jeff
-Jeff
Someone produce a 356C mold and I am buying it. It does seem as though there is a huge potentila base of customers that would purchase a car such as this. After all it would seem to me that most people shy away from a speedster replica because of the impractibility of it. Hence a coupe would be a purchase people could justify paying for because it would be used as a daily driver. I really hope that the builders are listening to this. Oh , and also so where is the Porsche 904 replica that Beck was working on for so many years???
Avanti Moors was working on a 904 replica, in fact had built a prototype or two but about 6 months or so had the tooling etc up for sale. I have not heard any more on this. It also appeared that they were getting out of the car making business also but don't have any confirmation on this. Don't know if anybody bought the 904 tooling and molds.
Bruce
Bruce
I stand corrected. Steve at SAW estimated about $200K to build a full set of molds. Then about $3K per body.
He also said he thinks the demand for the coupe is relatively small, as demonstratd by the original number of Envemos that sold here in the 80s when they were available.
-Jeff
He also said he thinks the demand for the coupe is relatively small, as demonstratd by the original number of Envemos that sold here in the 80s when they were available.
-Jeff
Yeah, well, they didn't sell a hell of a lot of speedsters in the 80's either, did they? Relatively speaking, I would expect 20% coupes and they should be somewhat popular with the cold weather crowd.
At this point, I would be happy with an affordable (like around $500), well fitted, Speedster hardtop.
At this point, I would be happy with an affordable (like around $500), well fitted, Speedster hardtop.
Give the reference costing Steve shared, I'm tempted to return to the other line of thinking... that is take a current speedster/roadster body and build up the back and roofline as a mock and then take a mold of that, and just build from the windshielf pillars up, over the roof and back, then graft that baby on to the existing high volume speedsters out there. Its that little grey bit in the middle of how you would graft it that I'm sure is the gotcha.... But then you'd benefit from the high volume, affordable bodies out there and have the weather tight you're lookinng for.
Maybe I watched too much American Chopper but I have to think a skilled 'glass worker could not only build the top piece but devise an elegant way to connect it to the readily available tubs?
-Jeff
Maybe I watched too much American Chopper but I have to think a skilled 'glass worker could not only build the top piece but devise an elegant way to connect it to the readily available tubs?
-Jeff
Gordon ,
I am with you in the $500 range and this cost range should be obtainable based on what a fiberglass pick up tonneau cover costs. I wonder just how hard would it be for a related company to produce these?
Jeff,
I worked on speedster that had a removable hard top, it was secured to the front windshield frame by using a convetible top front bow glassed into the front of the hard top.
The rear of the top is secured where the convertible metal bows pivot points are in the interior quarter panels with two chrome acorn nuts.
It would take 2 minutes to remove or install the top .
I am with you in the $500 range and this cost range should be obtainable based on what a fiberglass pick up tonneau cover costs. I wonder just how hard would it be for a related company to produce these?
Jeff,
I worked on speedster that had a removable hard top, it was secured to the front windshield frame by using a convetible top front bow glassed into the front of the hard top.
The rear of the top is secured where the convertible metal bows pivot points are in the interior quarter panels with two chrome acorn nuts.
It would take 2 minutes to remove or install the top .
$500 huh? I think I'll go cry now....
Don't know how true it is, but according to
www.team.net/www/ktud/saspeci/envemo.html
they claim of the 320 Envemos made, about 100 were Cabriolets. Doesn't that mean 220 were Coupes. Seems there was once a pretty healthy demand for the Coupe repro. Problem with a hardtop add-on seems to be the fit. My Envemo would be a real trick to fit with a hardtop; and I spoke to Henry about a hardtop for my IM. They will only do a hardtop if it is ordered at the same time as the car, because of the fit issues. How have the folks with the after market hardtops addressed that point?
www.team.net/www/ktud/saspeci/envemo.html
they claim of the 320 Envemos made, about 100 were Cabriolets. Doesn't that mean 220 were Coupes. Seems there was once a pretty healthy demand for the Coupe repro. Problem with a hardtop add-on seems to be the fit. My Envemo would be a real trick to fit with a hardtop; and I spoke to Henry about a hardtop for my IM. They will only do a hardtop if it is ordered at the same time as the car, because of the fit issues. How have the folks with the after market hardtops addressed that point?
Interesting topic. My two cents concerning a true fastback coupe would be as follows:
1. You need to up the target price to a range of $35 to $40K.
2. There will likely never be enough demand for near-term, cost effective volume production. This would work against new molds but might allow the use of existing
1. You need to up the target price to a range of $35 to $40K.
2. There will likely never be enough demand for near-term, cost effective volume production. This would work against new molds but might allow the use of existing