New Engine Build Out- Need Logistics

Just bought a 1600 Dual Port engine. The plan is to RIP it down and build up a 2100cc. The most I have done is from the heads up. Never a complete bore and build out. I've always bought it ready. This will be my first total rebuild. I'm STOKED!

I gots me some questions:

1) Is there a site that shows a Bore to Compression chart? I need to know what range to bore my block to get what I want.

2) How big is to big? When do you start exceeding the case boundaries and need to go with a "Bubble" type cases?

3) Looking on CIP. I see Scat Rebuild kits that range from 1600 - 2300cc. Is this the way to go? Does it have everything I need to complete the kit?

4) What kind of HP and Torque can I expect from a 2100? Will it be a noticeable increase over my 1776?

Drake / TC, I know its a lot to ask, but if you are willing to help me through the build process over the next few weeks, I sure would appreciate it. I am going to have a bunch questions.

Todd

Hey Todd
I hope this helps.....
http://www.cbperformance.com/enginecalc.html
Look around on this site. There's plenty of info from a respected source.

This link is one of the best I've seen:

http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/specgeninfo/calcs.htm

A 2110 cc (90.5 bore by 82 mm stroke) is one of the best out there; torquier, powerful and long lasting if taken care of. Make sure you get a 4340 chromoly crank (I gather the Scat Volkstroker III is such a crank and is made in the USA). Get all your machine work done at a place that specializes in VW work, that includes getting the case bored, tapped for full flow oiling, decked and clearanced for the 82 mm stroker crank. I suggest you get your full rotating assembly balanced (from the crank pulley to the clutch, including pistons and cylinders, crank and rods. Get the best heads you can get your hands on and get them ported. A place like DRD Racing heads, AJ Sims or Steve Timms offer good deals on ported heads and manifolds. Try to stay with OEM VW castings. I say so because the CB Performance 044's although nice are thicker than OEM heads and you'll need to bang the hell out of the cylinder tin to make them fit over the heads. Get at least 40 by 35.5 mm valves and make them stainless steel. As long as you have the machine work done by a pro, putting the stroker together won't be that difficult. The most time consuming thing will be to get your pushrod length right after calculating your valvetrain geometry. That's the main thing that'll need to be carefully executed. Hope this helps.

Todd, I hate to be the one to say it, but if you are going up to 2+ liters you start by chucking the 1600 in the corner. There's not much there you will be using.

Call CB and see if they have a complete engine kit for a 2110 or 2176. You'll need everything; from crank to carbs, from pressure plate to spark plugs.

Sorry,
Mark

And Todd, don't be discouraged by what I just said. I started innocently from where you are now and built my engine (2332). I learned a ton. I did have to "take it apart and try it again" several times, but the end result is a confident fearlessness that nothing can happen I can't fix.

It IS fun and it IS satisfying. Take your time and read everything you can find. My best resource was a publication from Hot VWs magazine, it think it is called something like All About Hot VW Engines. It was really good. Everything from building a little stocker all the way up to the 180hp street scorcher you have in mind.

Mark

Sorry, I don't understand. I thought all 1600 + engines were built on a 1600 case. Is this not correct?

Actually the title is (now that I'm home looking at it):
All About Performance Engines II, published in Fall 1997. If you can still get reprints, I think you'll like it a lot.

In the mean time, here is something to get you started:
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/t1hpeng.htm

Mark

Todd,

Sorry I missed your question before my post immediately above. But, the aircooled.net article I linked to immediately above will give you the techical answer.

In short: Yes, the 1600 dual relief valve engine case can be used for all builds out to at least 2332 (84 crank, 94 pistons). But once you step up in piston size the case must be machined to accept the larger cylinders. Then once you step up int 82 or 84 mm cranks, the case has to be machined for clearance to swing the bigger crank circle. Then (this just keeps getting better) you MUST consider additional machining for a "full flow" oil system. And, you should consider strengthing the case with additional welded-in bracing.

By the time you consider the hundreds of dollars for machining your old case, not to mention your time to salvage it in the first place, plus the outbound and inbound shipping costs -- just buy a new one that is already machined to your spec. The price isn't that much different!

So, should the new case be an AS-41 or one of the new aluminum hi-roof cases you mentioned in your post way above? This is very debateable, but I think the early bug-a-boos put down on the aluminum cases have been largely dispelled, and the aluminum case is stronger and more suited to the 82 and 84 mm cranks. But I am only a rank amature and you should solicit advice on this from the professionals.

Think of it this way, the 1600 case was originally conceived as a 1300 case. And you want to take that to 2000+? On the other hand, the aluminum high-roof case was originally conceived as a 2400.

Mark

Todd - you are getting all excellent advise, these guys really know what they're talking about.

I might add you really should think about what your end goal will be, how do you want to use the car? I agree with all the above posts, there's just about nothing you can use from your 1600, except the case, but why wreck a good complete long block for just the case? Keep your 1600 complete as a backup engine, and build your new motor.

My feelings on the size/realiability/cost factor is that anything bigger than a 1835 goats you into building an expensive engine. You can get away with the stock oil system, heads(mostly), exhaust, heater boxes, and even the carb with up to an 1835, but then everything changes. Bigger than a 1835cc and your building a much more expensive engine, full flow, 1 5/8" exhaust, BIG dual carbs, expensive heads(don't cheap out on the heads, this is where all the power is made), get's expensive FAST!!!!

My idea of a really nice engine is a good tight 1776, with some dual scat solex's 35mm, or weber 40idf's, nice exhaust, svda dist, good heads (worked, maybe 40x32 valves, port matched, polished, ss valves), counter-weighted crank, ect..... That combo will run just like a stock motor with about 90hp if built right, it will last LOOOOONG, and be trouble free.

Keep in mind, if you do decide to build a bigger motor, you'll start breaking stuff like the tranny, ect....and you'll soon learn that your brakes and suspension is not up to the task of the larger more powerfull motor, it's a complete package, you won't really be happy with a big motor unless the complete package is done right, that costs $ to do properlly.

Hope that helps.

Martin.

Thanks for the help. I am going to have a bazillion stupid questions. Here is the first:

I want to go through the process of stripping the case down, hoaning it, boring it etc... It is how I learn. My only concern though is safety. Aside from the time/money spent to bore the case, and I gaining anything else. I'm wanting the experience.

Thanks
Todd

That's just great but make sure you farm out all the machine work to a reputable machine shop specializing in (or at least very familiar with) VW/Porsche work and that includes boring, decking, full flowing and clearancing the case, headwork and balancing work.