New engine goes bad

It looks like my new 2276 will have to come out. The engine, which has 600 miles on it, is going through a liter of oil every 80 to 90 miles!
The only upside to all this is I was going to pull the engine this Spring to get at the tranny, which is making growling sounds on deceleration.
Shit happens....

Oh CRAP ! !

Of COURSE I feel terrible for you, could you post a few more details on the engine, specs, builder, etc.?

Luck ! ! ! ! Or at least better luck . . .

TC

is it smoking blue smoke badly.

This is just one of life's little two-bit hurdles. When you lick this problem, and get it all back together running sweet, you'll appreciate your perseverance and success even more. Hang in there!

That's not even long enough for the rings to seat fully (but consumption still high). Were P&C new? Did you do work or someone else - perhaps the ring gaps were offset correctly? Is oil level correct (too high is as bad as too low - and its often hard to tell how much if you have extended sump or remote lines to a filter/cooler.

Were P&C new?
Yes

Did you do work or someone else - perhaps the ring gaps were offset correctly?
I had a local VW shop do the build.

Is oil level correct (too high is as bad as too low - and its often hard to tell how much if you have extended sump or remote lines to a filter/cooler.
On Henry's advice I fill to the half way point between low and high.
I have an external cooler, full flow filter, and Gene Berg 1.5 liter sump.
The only time I noticed any blue smoke was when I purposely took off very quickly from a stop. When I shifted into second gear and looked in my rear view mirror, I could see a cloud of blue smoke. Otherwise, I can't see any blue smoke-even on cold start-up.

Ron-100% sure it is exhaust? Is the case wet? Is there a noticable pooling of oil before/after running? Can you follow behind while someone drives your car to observe this "smoke". Just being diagnostician here-perhaps others can jump in if more clues.
(I had a main seal problem (standard 1600) that was a head-scratcher once...)

Ron - BUMMER about your new engine. I hope you can get it all sorted out without too much headeache!

I got my engine basically right out of the box, w/ no break-in on it. I recall watching it get unloaded from the trailer in a cloud of blue smoke. But, it calmed down after a few hundred miles, and now seems fine. Of course it is going to be worse when cylinder pressure is high, i.e., with your foot into it. Have you spoken to the builder about this? If something is just wrong, he should get it fixed. Did you use proper break-in oil? Has it been changed yet?

CB Performance motor?

It's not a CB engine (I am running CB fuel injection). The builder (an older German gentleman) has been building VW engines for 40 years-he's very knowledgeable.
The engine has zero leaks-not a drop.
I used Brad Penn break-in oil. The oil has been changed twice, not including the break-in oil

The builder will stand behind his engine. He has asked me to I try replacing my Brad Penn 10-30 synthetic with 20/50 non synthetic.
I'll do an oil change this weekend and see if that makes any difference.

Ron,
If you do a Leak down test, you'll eliminate a large percent of the guesswork you're going through.
It'll let you know which cylinder(s) leak and how much. You can also determine if it's blowing past the rings or intake or exhaust valves.

Greg B

PS
I think Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive Tester if you don't have or know someone that has one.

Replacing with with 20/50 non synthetic may only mask an exsisting problem. Compression and leak down tests are waranted.

Ouch... what a bummer, I hope you find out the problem and that you don't need to completely tear down the engine again.

I agree with S Slater,if it only smoked on that one noticeable time it must be going somewhere else (leak).A litre every 80-90 miles? Of course do all the tests, but if its burning it I think you would see a lot more smoke or residue at the tailpipe.If the main seal was the prob your clutch would show it. Its going to be some thing simple. Sorry, as it comes after a long awaited reunion and resurrection or a beautiful car.This too shall pass. : )
(Easy for me to say!)

Ron, An engine is going to use oil from two possible places, the rings and or the valve guides. You never want to break an engine in with synthetic oil. I tell my customers to wait until 5K miles before they switch to synthetic. A leakdown tester is your best tool to find out the where the oil is coming from. If the cylinders have good leakdown, the oil is getting past the valve guides. Were the guides checked when the engine was rebuilt? Are the cylinders new or were they honed. What type of finish was used if they were honed? These are all questions you need to talk with your builder about. If you need any help, feel free to give me a call or email.
Pat Downs

(other than wasting money) why not break-in with synthetic oil?

because rings of the style we use don't seat in the cylinders used in VW engines using synthetic oils. If the rings don't seat then the car burns a lot of oil. The break in process actually scuffs the cylinder wall, synthetic oils do not seem to allow this to properly occur...hence you have an oil burner. Some parties think that once the cylinders are "glazed" they will never break in, so the engine has to be taken down, the cylinders honed, the engine built again, and the break in process restarted with natural oil...I would listen to Pat D above, he has built thousands of engines and knows of what he speaks...

Duck tape is the answer....I use it for everything...
this poor girl was behind Ron's car when he took off from a red light....

Thanks for the input.
Engine break-in was done using Brad Penn Break in oil. Then I had Henry install Brad Penn 10-30.
Can someone explain to me, or link me to a source that will show me how to perform a leak down test?

In general:

Loss Reading
A leakdown test is a compression test in reverse. Instead of measuring the ability of the engine to create pressure, compressed air is introduced into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. One gauge on the tester measures the pressure of the air entering into the cylinder and the other measures the percentage of the air escaping

Thanks, Tmpus. Didn't doubt it, just didn't know.

hey Ron - i literally just made a leakdown tester (from a compression tester).

I'm close to you and can huck it in the mail if you want to borrow it for a bit. if you have an air compressor with a regulator and two gauges (most do) - then it's a snap to use.

i threw in some oil to double check the readings and thought i did something seriously wrong when i started it up and lots of white smoke came out. after a minute - all was good.

best part of the leakdown is you can litterally hear where the problem is.

exhaust = exhaust valve
carb = intake valve
oil = rings

(or it was put together seriously wrong = head to cylinder seal

Ages ago I read of after honing the cylinder with that special wire brush with abrasive tips (to get the cross hatch pattern on cylinder) to scrub it with Bon Ami (or was it Comet). Leave the dried white coating on as it aids the ring seating. I seem to go other way and coat cylinder with motor oil. Any truth to Bon Ami trick or is it urban legend?

In the old days they would use Bon Ami to get rings to seat. Typicaly, if an engine doesn't smoke much but uses allot of oil, it's getting past the intake valve guides.

I almost had forgotten about the Bon Ami thing ...

Mangosmoothie, thanks for the offer.

My new 2332 engine is also out of the car. Big oilleak and a endplay is 500 % too much.

Morten, sorry to hear you're having problems too.

Recall that our 2276s were built about the same time. May be no relation, but my engine builder had just gone through a shipment of brand new heads from his supplier that had bad valve guides right out of the factory. Fortunately mine hasn't shown a problem...

Chuck, funny you should mention valve guides. Pat's comment about smoke from ring problems and no smoke from valve guides got me thinking. Yesterday, I took my IM to work and when I left the parking lot, after the usual idiotically long warm-up, I left a rather unpleasant odor. No blue smoke could be seen, but there definitely was an unwelcome oil smell.
I'm losing a lot of oil, but there is very little smoke. Could it be valve guides, and not rings?
My heads are 044 CBs that I had on my old engine. My builder was supposed to go over the heads carefully and do whatever was needed to make them right.
Anyways, I did an oil change yesterday (20/50 dino), as per my builder's request, but if it's the valve guides I don't think it will make a wit of difference.
Stay tuned....

Got an update for us, Ron?

No, I haven't driven the car since my oil change. Once the weather improves I hope to be able to put some miles on the car.

Ron:

had a similar experience years back with a 912E and it was valve guides. once replaced it was fine, but it sounds eerily similar.

Updates ?

Hey Ron? I really think there's a good chance this is all in your heads (it's a joke - get it cylinder heads) and that the oil is pulling into the cylinder from the valve guides.

But it if is rings, before you give up entirely, do this red-neck cure. Need to do this with dino oil not synthetic. Get the engine fully up to temperature, in fact, get it kind of hot (don't overheat) and run the dog snot out of up a few big grades. You don't need high rpm, go for wide open throttle mid range. You want your parts expanded from heat and lots of load on the cylinder which is what the big hill does. Think mountain. Do it a couple of times.

It's worked for me on more than on engine. After this, I give up.

(I should probably add this only works for RINGS - if valve guides are the issue, it won't help at all).

angela

Next week, weather permitting, I plan on taking her up into the mountains for a good, long cruise (100+ miles). There's a couple of long hills, which will give me the chance to heat the engine up a bit. If that doesn't do it she's going in for an engine pull.
If it is the valve guides they can be repaired/replaced, right?

yup. you need to pull the heads - which would be easiest with a pulled motor (given that only takes ~20 minutes)

you'll need a valve job after that too. are you planning on doing the work?

if not - geoff or darren here can hook you up with one of the best VWAC builders in Canada (they are in Van too)

http://www.airspeedparts.com/forums/index.php?board=17.0

AVR in Abbotsford built the engine for me, so I'll have them do the repairs.
The heads are from my old engine (2110), along with the crank, rods, and rockers.
Darren K built my first engine (1776), way back around 2001.