New Engine on the horizon

I know this has been kicked around a million times, but I have to replace my transmission (bad synchro) and while the drive train is out of the car thought hmmmm, maybe time to go bigger. I've got a 2002 IM that I just bought a couple of months back with a "new" 1776 Pat Downs engine in it that is sweet for normal driving (plus a little). But, I want to drive it like I stole it once and a while... HOT in Texas, gets cold enough that I want to keep my heater intact, no A/C. I wanted to bounce this off my friends here. I know torque rules, but I also want reliability. I'm thinking maybe a 2180 to keep some cylinder width for heat dissipation. I'm a little worried about a 2332 with thin walls... What say you? Budget=$5000-6000 range

2) CB Performance is an easy choice, but I wouldn't mind calling options if anyone has had a great experience with other builders.

3) Soon to have a CBPerf 1776 turnkey with less than 2000 miles for sale. I think $2500 is a fair no-haggle price.

Yes, I'm already running 4-wheel discs and ordered a pro-street transmission (3.88 with .089 4th)

Thanks!!!

Pat makes a nice 2110 that IM uses alot from what i understand..

Chuck -- what has you spooked about the 94mm cylinders? Their wall thickness is actually greater than the 92mm cylinders that are used to make a 2180.

The "problem" with 2332 used to be the associated with the engine case. In order to swing the big crank a lot of case needed to be milled out to allow clearance. Now-a-days with the aluminum cases that come off-the-shelf clearanced for 86mm strokes it is no longer an issue.

You might find this interesting:
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/t1hpeng.htm

Decide what you are going to do about your engine BEFORE you buy that transmission! The ever popular "freeway flyer" will be toast if you back it up to a fire breathing big 2 liter.

It's always fun to spend somebody else's money!

Usually, it's the money that limits a build, but in your case, it's the heater boxes. There are 1-1/2" flanged heater boxes everywhere for short-ish money, but 1-1/2" will only support about a 2L motor (1914, 2007 at the most). A 2110 really ought to have 1-5/8 primaries. There are a few places that will make them- if you catch Tiger at A1 in the right mood, he'll make a side-winder with 1-5/8" heater boxes. Get out your check book.

A big-power 2332 is going to need 1-3/4" primaries. I've never heard of anybody doing 1-3/4" heater boxes, although if anybody could, it'd be Tiger.

Heat management is where you can spend real money. Getting a really big Type 1 to run cool is expensive. If I had $5K or $6K to spend, I'd look hard at a 2110 in Type 1. I'd run short rods, 9:1 or so with good pistons (JE, Weisco, or Venolia), H rods, a forged crank, and some really, really (really) nice heads built on 043 VW castings. Run some port-matched manifolds, and Dellorto 40s set up by Art Thraen, and you're on budget with the A1 exhaust set-up.

However, you may want to consider a Type 4. A1 makes a Type 4 sidewinder. The increased longevity of a Type 4 starts in the heads- bottom exiting exhaust just cools better (just look at a 911). Money might be an issue, but I know there are several respected Type 1 builders that are branching out into Type 4. Of course Jake Raby remains the standard by which everything is compared, but his engines are north of $10K (and worth it). You'll still have to contend with the heater box thing- unless you do a gasoline heater, or just forgo it altogether (I'd do one or the other).

Take your time, choose carefully, and do it once. It'll be great.

Running heater boxes on a large engine is always a problem. I have a set of custom made 1 /58" heater boxes and a custom merged header that I plan on using on my new 2275 engine. Here's a photo of the custom heater boxes and header on my old (soon to be new) IM (with a 2110 engine).

The 2110 is a great dependable engine with good cam,head,carb combo and 8:5 - 9:1 c.r. The type four is always beefier to begin with and as mentioned before better design all around...Blow-thru Turbo might take it out of $ range but some dependable turbos have been built too, tho in a 356 heat and room factor is to be considered.
2cents P.S. Engine/Trans combo very important (As prev mentioned)

greg, u related to mr. congeniality bernie?

Great comments all, thanks! My new transmission is being built by KCR, and Kevin knows I'm headed upwards of 150HP. He is building me his "super-street" version with Super diff, H/D side cover, welded 3rd & 4th, steel forks. His recommendation was 3.88 with a .089 4th as a good match for higher torque of a stroker. I'm calling Pat Downs in the morning (he was out today) and going over my want list. I'm sure his recommendations are going to be good ones and likely my choice when I pull the trigger, maybe tomorrow. Sounds like I need to get Pat to massage a 2110 for me and source a set of 1 5/8' heater boxes for an A1 setup. (Thanks for the PM advice Ernie!)

Dad. I branched off into construction in 88 and am just getting back into it again with a 914 2.0, Manx ,72 Ghia and Speedy :) my favorite!All are beaters right now.

Chuck,

Like my friend Stan said "It's fun to spend other peoples money" so here is my idea.

Put the car back together. Sell it and use the money to pay for a down payment on a new IM-6. I have a perfect core 1978 Porsche Targa with a rebuilt 3.0 as a donor car for $8,500 and I will deliver the parts to Henry.

Problem solved for power and you get heat that will fry you out of the car with SSI heat exchangers.

See it's easy really!

Oh yeah, Stan's last thought,

"Take your time, choose carefully, and do it once. It'll be great."

Love you buddy!

Rather costly, but it appears there are some 1 3/4" heater boxes http://www.vwparts.net/CSP255-100-045LR.html

I like CSP products. Expensive, but top quality. I have a new shifter and breather tower going on my new engine.

What where doing with our turbo motor's we machine the case 90.5
then cut down the 94 barrel to 90.5 so there's no cutting into the case saver's and the cylinder has a better sealing surface.

"what has you spooked about the 94mm cylinders"

I've looked at OEM T1 blocks bored out for 94mm and the cutting seems to cut too far into where the studs sit. It just doesn't look like it take long for studs to pull out or cylinder base sealing to leak. Plus same issue on the heads.

The power comes from the heads. Spend the money to get the best flowing heads you can. Ask Pat.

Just talked to Pat at CBP. Made me an easy decision... His build times are out to 3 months at this point due to heavy demand. I'm going to bolt the new transmission up to the 1776 I've got, enjoy it through the fall and then get him to build me a 2110 in the cold months. He suggested going to their 044 mini-wedge port heads and upping the cam a bit to easily take it to the 150hp range. Surprisingly, he said a quality 1 1/2 dia exhaust would flow fine for this engine, so I may be ok there as well. I considered other builders, but I think I'll wait on Pat. Price is in my range, unquestionable build quality, stand-up builder and that's a good equation! Seems everyone else at my price point has at least a couple of bad posts somewhere, but I couldn't find ONE about Pat or CBP. Thanks all!

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Pat but I've dealt with Bob at Claude's Buggies since the 70's and he a good guy!I'm sure they will deliver. I wonder if Don is still there? I haven't talked to him since the 80's.

Ok, so I'm impatient. I just ordered a turnkey 2275cc from Strictly Foreign. 1 5/8" A-1 Sidewinder with heater boxes, external filter and cooler with thermostat. Build time 3-4 weeks. I've read good things about the shop there and I decided to roll the dice since CBPerfrmance was 3 months out. I'm going to baby my transmission and then swap the entire drive train out at once. Hopefully KCR won't mind a 30 day delay in getting back their tranny core. I'll keep the group posted!

I take it you've read this thread from Samba?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210011&highlight=strictly+foriegn+foreign
I know you've ordered your new engine, but I'll throw out another quality engine builder: A.C.E. http://www.aircooledengineering.com/

I have read the post. Mark sorted out whatever issues that the original poster had and he went on to thank him and say that he was a stand up guy. Others had mixed experiences, but there were more people posting positive comments than the vocal minority posting negative ones. What I do know is that Mark talked me thoroughly through the build specs, pointed me to other vendors for the exhaust so I could save some money not paying for his markup... All in all a great conversation. Mark is providing a full build sheet so I know exactly what I'm buying. I'll have the engine in the car within a month's time and start the 12 month 12,000 mile written warranty. Hopefully my experience as time unfolds will give a positive balance to those on Samba that were several years old for the most part. Thanks for the heads up!

New AS-41 Dual relief stroker case,
New hardware kit, chromoly head stud kit
4340 chromoly Crankshaft
New coated piston kit w/teflon wrist pin buttons
New forged I-Beam rods
New SF 042 Heads, 40 x 35.5 valves and high-rev springs
New crank gear kit
New main, rod and double thrust cam bearings
New Engle W-110 cam and lifters, .430 lift and .284 duration
New chromoly push rods
New chromoly 13# balanced flywheel
Pertronix electronic ignition
New Bosch alternator, reworked to 90 amps
New Shadek oil pump and cover
External oil filter and cooler/fan with thermostat
Match ported intakes and dual 44mm IDF Webers
New shroud and cylinder tins
Billet aluminum oil filler w/screw on cap
Billet aluminum degree pulley

A final post on the Strictly Foreign question as I messaged with Mark earlier. I hope he doesn't mind me posting his reply: "You have a beautiful Porsche replica, and we will build you a worthy 2275 engine that will impress you. I know we have a few negative posts on the Samba, but we have hundreds of happy customers since 1984 when I established this business. Strictly Foreign engines and transmissions have been featured in Hot VW's magazine over the past 26 years. We try our best to satisfy every customer, but some can be impossible to please no matter what we do. I do care about every customers project, and treat it as my own. I wouldn't ever sell and build something that I wouldn't run in my own VW, ever!! Thanks again for your trust & purchase. I do appreciate your business, Mark Wolter"

Chuck, looks like a great, torquey combo. My new 2275 will be going into my IM around the same time you receive your new engine. I hope both of our engines will be trouble free.

Chuck-

I see nothing about porting on the heads. I see valve sizes and casting numbers, but no mention of porting. The power is in the heads- there is no better single place to spend the money than on a good port-job.

and compression. what is the target static #?

Chromoly retainers? probably, but worth a check

I agree with Stan. I'm using the same sized heads on my new engine (the heads, crank and rocker assembly are from my old engine). These are small heads, but work great when ported.

Yes, they are ported and matched to the intakes as well. The rotating assembly is full dynamic balanced. We've agreed to sacrifice a little performance for a reasonable compression ratio for durability. Should still come in over 150hp range. I'm concentrating more on torque than pure top end. That's where the fun is anyway. Oh, yes on the chromoly retainers...

New engine shipped Thursday and is trucking in as I type. Should be here Friday 10/1 and then installed the following week. I am so excited I could $hit! As above, 2275 stroker, .44 IDF Webers, new A-1 Sidewinder sitting on my living room floor now all mocked up :), Pro-Street tranny is still boxed in the garage. I'm just finishing up my new oil cooler install this afternoon. Rockin! I'm still kinda wondering if I'll like the single big A-1 outlet sticking out under my back bumper. Great if I was replicating a Carrera, but mine is all classic bone stock looking Roadster. We'll see...

Ooooh the anticipation!

Hey Chuck, my fuel injected 2275 is going in next week too. Did your builder break-in the engine before shipping it to you? Mine hasn't been fired-up yet, so my fingers are crossed (no leaks please!)

"You can't rush success but you can damn sure rush failure"

"Haste Makes Waste"

I see this all the time.. Instant gratification costs much more down the road than the initial quick delivery-

Ron, my builder does a 45 minute run in on the stand and does any final tune tweaks and dials in the Webers. Since they're at nearly the same altitude as I, I'm hoping it's plug and play. He even called me during the run in so I could hear it...

Jake, no one in the industry is more respected as an engine builder, but I had to try to stretch my dollars as far as I could on this one. If it comes back to bite me then I'll be happy to give you a free I-told-you-so :)

It doesn't bother me that you didn't call me... We don't try to build them all.
Forget that I am even an engine builder, just pretend that I have tons of interface with people who have made poor decisions and are looking for a solution.

More than likely your 1776 has the same cam that's advertises in this 2110, does that seem a little odd to you?

People have backlogs for a reason:
1 because they take more time on each engine
2 because their work is in demand

instant gratification. I have yet to see a positive outcome from it.

I'll be interested in seeing your experience with the engine.

The cam in my 1776 was a CB2231 - .228 lift and 268 duration, lift at cam .313. The cam in my 2275 is an Engle W-110 - .430 lift and 284 duration, lift at cam .397. I'm hoping it to be a good match regardless. I saved $1000, shaved 2 months off build time, and still went with a builder that has been building engines for over 25 years. Let's just see how this plays out.

That's a lot of engine to be using a 110 cam on. Major bottleneck. Those valves are barely opening enough to let in and out the gases from the stroke and bore combo.

It will be a real torque monster.

With a really narrow powerband.
I use a cam bigger than a 110 in a bus engineof only 2 liters pushing 5000 pounds...
I am interested in the observations he has in car after installation.

Maybe has 16 gears(diesel). ;-)