New Engine questions

engine size has nothing to do with reliability.thats the builder.and to some extent the owner.if you have a bunch of crap thrown togeather thats what you will have. if you have a bunch of expensive parts thrown togeather you will still have about the same outcome...crap. the fi case can be machined for a oe fuel pump. I my self dont use old oe cases for my stuff,I buy new cases.I wont buy a oe vw case.I use the better stronger raised roof aluminum cases.Ive never used a oe vw crank or rods either,no reason to do so. About the only vw part I realy use is the dist drive. for all practicle pourposes it cost very little to build it bigger. witch makes more power without having to run the crap out of it,they also make better mpg. about the easyest would be a 82x90.5~92 bore. or a 76x 90.5~92 bore or even 94 mm bores work fine these days., but your not going for max power ,so I would stay with 90.5, with the 76mm stroke use the "B" piston with 5.5" rod.that combo will take very little if any stroker clearancing if you do use a non stroker case. if it's all done right it should outlast you & the car. scat has about the best engine kit pricesIve seen, just look on thier site,you can buy directly from them,they also have them assembled too. I use dfl coated bearings&total seal rings on all my engines,but I dont think they have that option. if the car is worth driving it's worth a good engine.do it right, do it one time and be done and have fun,forgetaboutit

Lane, I'm sorry....I hate myself....I owe you a beer in May. (and no, you probably won't live that down)

Thanks,Mark, there  are many options , but do it once and do it right.

My old engine had many problems. It was built half assed with what looked like parts that were laying around someones shop. Some parts were mis-matched etc. Crap in crap out.

Lane:  What are friends for...

As for a Pat Downs engine, I am completely happy with my 2332 c.c.  Goes like scoot and no problems so far.

If I wanted what you say you want, Al-- I'd do this:

• AS41 Mag case, full-flowed, bronze sleeved lifter bores, 911 oil squirters, "Hoover" oiling modifications.
• 78.4 mm (German) DPR crank
• Thick-wall 92 mm cylinders, Mahle pistons and rings
• CB 5.325" H-Rods
• FK42 cam
• Udo Becker tool steel lifters (get out your check-book)
• CB Los Panchitos heads
• solid rocker shafts
• 1.4 rockers
• Manton steel push-rods
• stainless windage push-rod tubes
• Scat "thin-line" 1.5 qt sump.
• Alloy sump-plate, with magnetic drain-plug
• beveled cam gear
• fully blueprinted 30mm oil pump (for the oil squirters) with cast-iron Berg outlet cover
• 36 (or 40) mm Dellortos (rebuilt by Blackline Racing) w/ CB offset manifolds, port matched to heads
• Sync-Link linkage
• Bosch SVDA distributor, modified by John Connely (good luck), Bosch blue-coil
• EMPI sand-seal laser-etched pulley (stock diameter)
• 13 lb flywheel
• Stage 1 pressure-plate
• 1-1/2" heater boxes
• 1-1/2" A1 sidewinder
• German cooling tin (with sleds, thermostats, and flaps), modified for Type 4 oil cooler, powder-coated

I'd get the whole rotating assembly dynamically balanced, and put thermal coatings on the piston-tops and combustion chambers.

This engine would make power from idle and pull hard to 5500 RPM. It'd last 100k mi, and run cool as a cucumber. It'd also cost every bit of $8k. That's why people go big-- the cost differential is small, the h/p differential is huge.

Thanks, Stan.  Good info to digest, but if I had pockets that deep , I probably wouldn't be driving this car or laying on concrete this Winter wrenching on it either.

 My fun budget tells me that I will have to set my sights a little lower. Right now I would like to find a good used engine case to get started. I'm not trying to do this for super cheap but bearing in mind that this is an entry level VS kit; and I only have about 12k into it so far, I don't want to put lipstick on a pig. I kind of like the car for what it is. Affordable so far.

I had Chico performance build me a motor,it cost around $4500.00 and this included the Weber carbs/break in on the dyno and a dyno/spec sheet. It has 7K miles on it now and seems to be getting even better/smoother with age. IIRC mine is a 2110,and running dual 44's/sidewinder/full flow/and it was built with a aluminum case & CNC ported heads/dynamically balanced crank/FW/PP/crank pulley/chromoly pushrods/etc. The engine is the smoothest VW engine I have ever driven,and it has not missed a beat,worth every penny,was built using a CB aluminum case,which I bought for its strength and infinite rebuild-ability. If you can even find new ones, Mag cases are expensive,the aluminum ones are available,and work well.

James Bond:

I'm really glad you had good luck with Chico. I spent over 2x what you did on a 2332 with him, and the experience was less than I had hoped. The power was fantastic, but there were some pretty serious deficiencies in the build. Some guys have had very good experiences with CPR, others not so much. I got the short straw-- I'm glad you didn't.

why buy an old used up crank that has been welded on and welded on and welded on then welded some more, when you can buy a proven good new chromoly crank for less???I have one of those welded 78.4 cranks sitting on the shelf.Ill probably never use it,Im not impressed with it other than somebody took that much time to do it.In the old days yes it was about the only option,it's not any more.yes he does good work,I send my cranks to him for balancing since I nolonger have a crankshaft balancer.

   on my first vw engine build over 10 years ago I drilled the crank for spg pattern ,put the crank on the balancer then balanced it,  after balancing it I could not talk my self into using it. it was the sofest steel I had ever drilled into,Im pretty sure Ive drilled aluminum that was harder to drill. so I got a new scat crank.I have never used a stock oe vw crank in any of my engine builds.just not worth it. I have used 1 welded cw stroker in a customers engine from the left coast that had expired before 1000 miles.I did have to fix that crank before usage,along with most everything else in there.the crank was not machined corectly when redone,it wasent the ussue the engine had but would of been an issue down the road. there are many things to consider & do when building a good reliable engine,some builders do them some dont.some dont give a ****.

If they turn out a product that works for the job intended (and they do) then you're putting money into your own country's economy instead of fueling the Chinese machine. Spend your hard earned wages to keep other guys in your own country working instead of sending it overseas. That should be good enough right there. And you wonder why you guys are in such rough shape...

Stan,I am sorry to hear that. I have no "loyalty" to Chico,so I am interested in hearing what problems you had,was it with the components used or the assembly?

 Is this the engine you were having overheating problems with? Interested in hearing what to "look out for" . Did itr have to do with lifters/cams? That seems to be the biggest issue nowadays,I adjust my valves every 1k miles and so far so good,I do have a small leak at the front/rear main seal,which is a bummer.  

Mark, everyone has an opinion on this, and it is great that we live in this great big, wide world where there is room for all. You'd buy a new crank, Stan would get a welded one. Whatever, it's all whatever you want to do.

I hope I never have to build a motor from scratch today, that I'll be lucky enough to rebuild what I have someday with good, not too expensive parts.

If I was actually Al Gallo, I'd let his builder take care of it. If I wanted the engine that Al wants but I was building it, I'd buy an engine kit from CB and put it together.

Mark likes to argue. That's OK. He can have a new crank-- I'm fine with that.

Al- If you need some comic relief, read the $hit-storm I created asking about your carbs' capabilities on the Samba- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581783&sid=e5d6edbc9193874cd0ed976eec4adb63 The 2nd page is where all hell breaks loose. I tell ya, I get busy and come back after a day...And thanks Stan, for trying to help clarify my intent. Later today I'm going to ask the moderator to clean it up a little. Hopefully we'll "eliminate" a half page or so....

ALB:

Troublemaker. You lose morning recess today.

Perhaps a course on maintaining positive customer relations for the guy from Aircooled.net would be in order. He certainly has a right to his opinions, but expressing them under the Aircooled.net logo in the way he did, essentially calling customers or potential customers ideas stupid wasn't the best idea.

In my world, if he was an employee, he would now have the opportunity to start his own business.

The internet can be a trap!

Yes Bob, John definitely is "opinionated". And he's one of the better ones! Although I've never dealt with him, I wouldn't hesitate though. He's one of the few solid retailers serving our hobby.

The problem with this format is that you can post what you write immediately. With a letter you always had the opportunity to edit what you wrote in the heat of the moment before it was sent.

PS- Awww, I love morning recess! No apple for you...

ALB:

Yeah, they seem to know their stuff and have good products. I just think that nothing is gained by demeaning a potential customer in public, particularly when that customer can chose to shop elsewhere for many of the common branded items.

That said, we don't have a ton of great options, do we?

Had an apple for breakfast, a Fuji.

I don't get it either.

ALB, you rabble rouser! How dare you make a statement and mislead John C!

Very funny!

Hey Yoda, you got those boys over on Samba worked into quite a lather.

Quite the little wrinkled up trouble maker, you are.

I'm almost sorry I brought this up. A lot of great information..... and I even understand some of it.

As I said in the beginning, I left myself open to a lot of different opinions and got some excellent suggestions, some of which are already planned.

I was talking to a guy I know who "works on vws" , and he said ," Just buy one of those long blocks from MAM for 2 grand ... that's what I do."

It's a pretty good distance between "low" end and "high" end engines.

Thanks for the help.

My best I always try...

Just remember Al, working for you Yoda is!

To recap- what I got from that discussion is you could build a 1915 (69x94) or 2007 (78x90.5) and with some stock valve ported heads have a nice little watch-winder that will rev to 5,000rpm, make about 90 or so hp and have a ton of bottom end/lower midrange. Have you finalized build plans?

I've asked the mods to clean up the thread so pretty well all the fun stuff is gone now. And thanks 58tub, for the help; I owe you one. One day when we meet the first brew is on me (and maybe the 2nd and 3rd, depending on how far into it we get!). Al

ALB, Stan, and whoever else. I'll be getting the 4th through the 6th, I know I'll still be drinking!

I'll never forget the first night I sat with Henry and Carey into the wee hours, quite an interesting and educational night!

If I ever make it to Carlisle Danny, everybody's invited ( will want to meet you all, Yoda does!) and we'll make it a long one!Al

well 3 out of 3 of the welded cranks Ive had in my shop were machined rong and defective.Im not sure just what adverge that is but I havent had any issues with the china cranks or any other non oe vw cranks. how many check thise cranks thourly? not just an eyeball check,not just for journal size.there are things that most never think of checking.

 go ahead and buy them all you want.I have over a hundrad thousand miles on one of my non vw stroker cranks in my vw engine that has 3 vw peices in it(2 peice case&dist drive).I wont pay extra for inferrior parts. but then I cant spell either.