MusbJim posted:^ That was SOCer's Gerd Kerswill's JPS coupe. Beautiful car!
Here's a couples of pics. Sorry for small pics, only ones I could find in my files.
Yes Musbjim, beauty car. I hope to have one similar to that, with my own personal touches.
OK, my name was mentioned (ElFraz it would be, I 'spose) so what can I contribute? Not a lot. The Green Coupe, still alive somewhere, was S/N 001 from JPS, ca/ 2007. There were issues, mostly with weather tightness that Tom could not deal with. One stormy day on the edge of a hurricane, a small group of us tore into that rascal, and fixed many obvious and serious problems. Water tightness was improved but not fully solved. I have seen some coupes from JPS done years later and they look very nice. As I understand, some significant improvements have been made wrt weather proofing. JPS has enjoyed and still maintains an excellent rep for beautiful paint. My 2332 JPS Speedster is no exception. As to JPS as a business/factory, in recent times things have been up and down, due to some issues mentioned: owner serious illness, divorce, and vagaries of who knows what. Perhaps things have settled down, I could not really say. John is a very knowledgeable car guy, and mercurial, one might say. He might take a serious interest in getting your car done right and on time, and he may not -- hard to say. His business model is to build to a price point that will be less than or equal to what other builders offer. That said, he will customize on just about any aspect, if you pay the freight. Not everything he may tell you will turn out to be fact. At the end of your pre-Coupe day, you must (and are, sounds like) see one up close and talk to one or more JPS owners. Go visit John in his shop before signing anything (I did this) and then figure it out on your terms.
All of that said, if you can wait, and probably pay a bit more, I'd say you might have a really nice experience at Beck, Specialty Auto. You will have to stand in line behind Lane Anderson and others, but if you can stand that, then I think you will not be disappointed. And I say that without hesitation nor with any first hand business interaction with Carey and his crew. But I do know them personally and how they operate -- none finer.
Well I am still studying up, also checking out real 912's & 911's which can be had at replica car prices, although most maybe/probably needing work.
I really got the wife on board with her sitting in Barts JPS car, and she likes the 356 body style over the 912/911 strangely enough.
I have too many questions...
Time is on my side, yes it is.
Max, time will be on your side right up to the moment you write your first check.
The simple, iconic lines of a pre A/A coupe and Speedster flow in a way few cars have ever replicated, so I understand your wife's preference, Max. Remember, also, that if you buy a fixer upper 911 or 912 that you'll very quickly leave the "replicar" prices" camp on repairs and maintenance, not to mention that while the 911/912 is a neat car, they really are "everywhere". Price out 911 engine work before making any decisions- although VW power is no longer cheap, it compares pretty favorably to the flat 6...
Max: If you are considering a JPS coupe (and all of the caveats above apply), then I strongly urge you to contact @Tom Marantz on here. Tom was going through his JPS build at the time John had a heart attack and is familiar with that situation. He stepped back a bit to give John healing room (it helps that Tom is a Cardiologist) and then worked with him as John got back into the swing of building again. Of course, the build was delayed, but What'cha gonna do? Anyway, Tom can give you first-hand guidance from his experience, with info from this group, as well as pointers on dealing with the whole build thing. Tom's coupe is very nice - I spent the whole time at Carlisle this past May riding around in it (I did not drive it, though). Very well executed, although with the usual issues that had to get "sorted" after delivery, and Tom is quite pleased with the overall result.
Gordon Nichols posted:Max: If you are considering a JPS coupe (and all of the caveats above apply), then I strongly urge you to contact @Tom Marantz on here. Tom was going through his JPS build at the time John had a heart attack and is familiar with that situation. He stepped back a bit to give John healing room (it helps that Tom is a Cardiologist) and then worked with him as John got back into the swing of building again. Of course, the build was delayed, but What'cha gonna do? Anyway, Tom can give you first-hand guidance from his experience, with info from this group, as well as pointers on dealing with the whole build thing. Tom's coupe is very nice - I spent the whole time at Carlisle this past May riding around in it (I did not drive it, though). Very well executed, although with the usual issues that had to get "sorted" after delivery, and Tom is quite pleased with the overall result.
IT just PLAIN BAFFLES me, and OTHERS(that I am certain of) that we expect things to get "SORTED" when we buy a SPANKING BRAND NEW CAR.......and we are talking about frank WATER LEAKS, FAULTY TRANSMISSIONS, CARS without SEAT BELTS, and that which frankly borders on NEGLIGENCE
. I guess, because the product itself is QUIRKY and NOT MAIN STREAM, we expect or ACCEPT that the delivery/new experience to be QUIRKY/UNPREDICTABLE/in need of SORTING? I'm NO different, by the way, altho my purchase was "previously owned".
Must be inherent in the "MADNESS", if you will, as if it were the COLLECTIVE experience of all TOYOTA or GM products, we would be reading about CLASS ACTION SUITS and RECALLS. I'm fine with it, but BOTH baffled AND entertained
These are not production cars, designed and built by the millions in billion dollar facilities by skilled workers and tight tolerances with multiple quality checks....if you want (near) perfection buy a Corvette.
All these cars are different and are assembled by mostly young men who are thinking about girls and beer...even cars costing hundreds of thousands need sorting.
I suspect the profit margins on these cars is very small, so getting them out the door is important...
@MaxMartens Max, here are a few pics of SOCer Tom Marantz' Subie Coupe taken at Carlisle 2017.
Click on pics to enlarge...
bart posted:These are not production cars, designed and built by the millions in billion dollar facilities by skilled workers and tight tolerances with multiple quality checks....if you want (near) perfection buy a Corvette.
All these cars are different and are assembled by mostly young men who are thinking about girls and beer...even cars costing hundreds of thousands need sorting.
I suspect the profit margins on these cars is very small, so getting them out the door is important...
I do agree with you on your above points bart, but I also agree with Banzai's as well. My VS came without seat belts, improperly working turn signals, and what has turned out to be a defective transmission. All three are safety items that should not fall under getting things sorted, IMHO.
All three defects could have been easily caught by simply taking the car out for a good drive before shipping it out. (my car had 5 miles on the odo when driven off the delivery truck). All three defects presented themselves on our first drive.
To Kirk's credit, he's been great backing up our car. After a shop by us determined the trans was bad, Kirk promptly sent out a new one (as well as a new turn signal switch and seat belts). Our car is still in the shop waiting to get repaired (2 weeks and counting) because the shop is so busy.
All of this headache (for us and for Kirk) could have been avoided by simply taking the car for a 15 -20 mile drive before shipping it out.
slowshoes posted:bart posted:These are not production cars, designed and built by the millions in billion dollar facilities by skilled workers and tight tolerances with multiple quality checks....if you want (near) perfection buy a Corvette.
All these cars are different and are assembled by mostly young men who are thinking about girls and beer...even cars costing hundreds of thousands need sorting.
I suspect the profit margins on these cars is very small, so getting them out the door is important...
I do agree with you on your above points bart, but I also agree with Banzai's as well. My VS came without seat belts, improperly working turn signals, and what has turned out to be a defective transmission. All three are safety items that should not fall under getting things sorted, IMHO.
All three defects could have been easily caught by simply taking the car out for a good drive before shipping it out. (my car had 5 miles on the odo when driven off the delivery truck). All three defects presented themselves on our first drive.
To Kirk's credit, he's been great backing up our car. After a shop by us determined the trans was bad, Kirk promptly sent out a new one (as well as a new turn signal switch and seat belts). Our car is still in the shop waiting to get repaired (2 weeks and counting) because the shop is so busy.
All of this headache (for us and for Kirk) could have been avoided by simply taking the car for a 15 -20 mile drive before shipping it out.
SEEMS like a BASIC COMMON SENSE expectation by the BUYER...
Well, when it comes to (affairs of the heart) motorcycles, cars or girls , my common sense is lacking and I am motivated by lust.
The BMW based Mirage GT is now taking deposits and I am at or near the head of the list. (check them out).
Now this car is not going to be inexpensive but compared to a SWB 250 Ferrari it will be ....attainable .....the soul of a replica..
Will I get my car....probably....will it need sorting...absolutely...(my lawyer says I am nuts and he has a point).
These cars are not assembled using robots, lasers, standard parts....so it will leak and squeak and rattle and misfire and ....I will fricking love it...
This topic has been hashed out countless times on here and not much has changed - some of the really bad builders (if you could call them 'builder') are either gone or going, the two really good builders are still really good and nothing much has changed in the middle.
These are custom-built cars done on a budget. With some builders, that budget includes road testing and issue correction prior to shipment (where it's done cheapest), and with other builders they roll the dice that issues found in the field can be fixed with a small "field repair" budget. If issues don't appear (or the buyer corrects them on their own), they win. If a LOT of issues appear, they lose against their field repair bucket, but not their base profit. Would I build and sell stuff this way? Probably not, but I might have a combination of the two - quick road test (50 miles of around-town and highway), fix what pops up and maintain a field budget that addresses the level of quality shipping out the door (probably a sliding scale), but I'm not in this business. If you want a sorted car, then Troy Sloan or the re-sell dealer in Atlanta can provide that for you for a reasonable price. Nice little cottage industry, there.
I hear your concerns Bonzai. I am amassing pages of questions, desires, options, sorting, health, etc.
I feel John and JPS can build a good car. We have seen a few.
My biggest concerns are;
1) His health, which I will ask about. Does all work stop if he is out & how many employees contribute to the build.
2) Next would be electrical issues and the serviceability there of (access of the wiring harness and is it fairly standardized).
3) Then leakage, and where it generally comes from.
Seatbelts come with this car. Motor, trans/linkage is a direct reflection of the builders (outsourced?), then the linkage used & installed.
My desire would be/will be to drive the car out of his shop for local break-in/sorting. I have the time and the Angeles Crest Hwy looks to be close by ;-).
I have gone through teething on my class 5 VW, directly with 3 transmission rebuilds and shifting issues. Turned out to be mis matched parts... But yes time and expense. I lightly modify motorcycles too, which can results in parts incompatibility, or 'universal' parts, meaning they fit nothing. I've had to push start 6 volt bugs, have carbs sync'd on my old 1641 Ghia, blah blah blah... :-) So hopefully I fit the replica 'madness' as well as some of you. Getting through a build should be something..
A hard accelerating subie powered, low, flat corning, disc braked 356 wannabe sounds appealing. I really hope John is in good build mode now. He says he is building 3-4 cars at the moment...
I will keep with the positive, and back away, should my gut feeling say to stay away. There are 50 grand 912's & 911's to be had if all else fails.
But this is badass. (thanks to the owner who put these pics online)
And not to give the wrong impression, I don't regret buying our car for a minute. Kirk built us a beautiful car - the color, fit and finish, and how nice and tight the car is when I drive it, are just what I was hoping for.
Lynn and I drove up to the shop today - a hundred mile round trip for us. I knew the car wasn't done - hell, we don't even have a completed estimate yet. But when I saw the car again, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face, even with it up on a lift in the shop. (photo opportunity for the under carriage!) I'm sure the owners of all the Porsches, old bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc that were there feel the exact same way about their cars.
It really is a madness.
Bill
slowshoes posted:And not to give the wrong impression, I don't regret buying our car for a minute. Kirk built us a beautiful car - the color, fit and finish, and how nice and tight the car is when I drive it, are just what I was hoping for.
Lynn and I drove up to the shop today - a hundred mile round trip for us. I knew the car wasn't done - hell, we don't even have a completed estimate yet. But when I saw the car again, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face, even with it up on a lift in the shop. (photo opportunity for the under carriage!) I'm sure the owners of all the Porsches, old bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc that were there feel the exact same way about their cars.
It really is a madness.
Bill
MADNESS IT IS!
@bart do you have a link for the Mirage GT?
Michael McKelvey posted:@bart do you have a link for the Mirage GT?
Michael, I have no clue on how to post a link, I would have to get one of the girls from the wash crew to come up here and do it and that would be fun but expensive...
Someone will have to help or you can use the Google and search for the Mirage 250 GT....sorry .
The prototype is built and has been displayed and the specs and price lists are available. I hope to have one by next summer so I need to save some money.
bart posted:Michael McKelvey posted:@bart do you have a link for the Mirage GT?
Michael, I have no clue on how to post a link, I would have to get one of the girls from the wash crew to come up here and do it and that would be fun but expensive...
Someone will have to help or you can use the Google....sorry .
The prototype is built and has been displayed and the specs and price lists are available. I hope to have one by next summer so I need to save some money.
Tons of pics and info online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFafTo-Vuo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l9aOfDQX-M
No, that is s different car...you have to search for the Mirage 250 GT.... looks like a SWB Ferrari 250...
This is the body style replicar Bart is speaking of.
bart posted:No, that is s different car...you have to search for the Mirage 250 GT.... looks like a SWB Ferrari 25Ahhhhh0...
Ahhhh OK, got it.
@Tom Marantz, Tom nice car! I assume it is a JPS car? Nice Minilite wheel combo, and semi outlaw with keeping the bumpers.
Do you have any interior pictures, showing seats, doors etc? And do I see a rollbar in there too?!? John says a rollbar is available...
Is Tom active on this site?
My hopes would be very close to this, with two colors in mind (undecided).
Going to the JPS shop tomorrow! Guess he has some in the works - should be a fun day.
Hope to grab a pic or two if John doesn't mind.
MaxMartens posted:Hello all.
I have been having the 356 fever for some time now. I revisit the idea every so often, for probably several years now. ...I lurk here & there.
I am taking my desire seriously now, and I am unloading a couple of other possessions to make room. I grew up with VW's, and have owned three vintage VW's in my adulthood. I feel I can handle ownership.
My studies have been the makers or replicas obviously, what type of powerplant, and then suspension ride heights and tire fitment. Discs all around (Empi or Wilwood?).
My hope is outlaw coupe, which I have a decent grasp on. It will be Subie powered for ease of good hp & torque. Next is sinking the car down on some fat(ish) rubber.
Can you folks suggest some common larger than stock tire fitments? I am thinking 185/65-15 on the front and maybe fatter in the rear. Possibly 205/60-15"?
Doable?
A Subie Coupe with a/c & good heat (I hope) should make for some nice creature comforts (plus power windows) for a 356.
Any other creature comforts I should be thinking about? Like mirror location, type of seats (head rest or not?), among other things...
My usage will be weekend warrior twisties/lunch runs, or over night touring, if the car is dependable enough. No winter use where I live (cold central Wa state).
I have been looking through various forums and this one seems to be suited most for replica builds/owners (although largely Speedsters). Thank you for the great info I have read here already. Many sites frown on the replicas, which is ok I suppose. I don't aim to show the car and will probably be driving with a Boxter (2001) and a Pontiac roadster. I only hope a 356 Subie replica will hang for the most part.
Thanks for your opinions!
Max
I just picked up My JPS Outlaw 2110cc coupe in late June. My 10 yr old son and drove Route 66 as much as we cared for. 2500 miles in 4 days. Happy with the build. Its all about expectations. If you expecting a BMW, then these cars will disappoint you. They will need tweaks here and there. I expected to get a bit dirty, tighten a few bolts , adjust a few things, etc. 2110 cc has nice power even with the AC on full blast. 330 bhp turbocharged coupe has to be an insanely fun drive.
Visited the JPS shop today.
Several cars in various stages with one being over the top.����
He looks really busy. That Mirage looks pretty good, also looks like big bucks like about what an IM would cost. Both Kirk and John CAN build you a good car. For what you are paying, I don't think they can afford to completely sort them. Consequently you will have to do it yourself or hire someone. I think Kirk is better at standing behind the cars so keep that in mind. If you want a sorted car, you will have to step up to a Beck or an IM. I have had just a couple of small dealings with Cary and Kevin at Beck and both of them really understand the concept of customer service. From what I have hear Henry at Intermecchanica is also excellent. It's like anything else in life, usually you get just what you paid for, nothing more.
Fpcopo VS posted:He looks really busy. That Mirage looks pretty good, also looks like big bucks like about what an IM would cost. Both Kirk and John CAN build you a good car. For what you are paying, I don't think they can afford to completely sort them. Consequently you will have to do it yourself or hire someone. I think Kirk is better at standing behind the cars so keep that in mind. If you want a sorted car, you will have to step up to a Beck or an IM. I have had just a couple of small dealings with Cary and Kevin at Beck and both of them really understand the concept of customer service. From what I have hear Henry at Intermecchanica is also excellent. It's like anything else in life, usually you get just what you paid for, nothing more.
My dear MOM used to say," I'd rather be cheated on the PRICE than the GOODS!". You can be sure that neither IM/BECK will cut bait on the GOODS....they just DO NOT go there...EVER!
HENRY at IM is a GENTLEMAN and a METICULOMANIAC...he couldn't do anything less than 110% if he tried....just against his grain. I am the SECOND owner of my IM6 and he returns emails with info and service needs within 24 hours as if I was the original builder/owner! A piece of him leaves with every car......others can bear witness
@Banzai Pipeline I think you're missing the point. The current price points from the various manufacturers allow for folks from different economic scales to enjoy a 356 Speedster. I knew full well when I purchased my VS that it would not have the same build quality as a new IM. But has that changed my enjoyment with the car?...not one bit.
I also don't think it's odd that these bespoke automobiles have issues. Even Toyota, GM, Ford, etc have issues with their cars (resulting in mass recalls), even after spending billions in R&D.
The exotic market has long been known to provide "nuances" with their vehicles as well. Elon Musk once stated that his reasoning for delivering a $100k+ Tesla roadster first was due to studies that have shown that folks spending $100k on a 2-seater roadster most likely have more than one car. When issues arise with these $100k+ cars, they are simply "quirks". And feedback is provided and the auto maker can make adjustments. But if he were to release a $25k car for the masses, it's expected that the car is reliable, as this may be the only form of transportation the vehicle owner has. When issues arise, it becomes a full blown media outrage, this sinking the car company.
There are various options and avenues to explore with our speedster manufacturers; from a used sorted VS/JPS/CMC to a Beck to the high end of the spectrum, an IM. We have people on our website that deliver well sorted cars routinely for sale, that are very good options as well.
-Kevin
KEVIN: NO QUARREL...I fully understand your perspective and issues with price points and scale....all good there......and it allows most to enjoy regardless of how, and how much, and under whatever serves ones needs.
kevin rasmus posted:MaxMartens posted:Hello all.
I have been having the 356 fever for some time now. I revisit the idea every so often, for probably several years now. ...I lurk here & there.
I am taking my desire seriously now, and I am unloading a couple of other possessions to make room. I grew up with VW's, and have owned three vintage VW's in my adulthood. I feel I can handle ownership.
My studies have been the makers or replicas obviously, what type of powerplant, and then suspension ride heights and tire fitment. Discs all around (Empi or Wilwood?).
My hope is outlaw coupe, which I have a decent grasp on. It will be Subie powered for ease of good hp & torque. Next is sinking the car down on some fat(ish) rubber.
Can you folks suggest some common larger than stock tire fitments? I am thinking 185/65-15 on the front and maybe fatter in the rear. Possibly 205/60-15"?
Doable?
A Subie Coupe with a/c & good heat (I hope) should make for some nice creature comforts (plus power windows) for a 356.
Any other creature comforts I should be thinking about? Like mirror location, type of seats (head rest or not?), among other things...
My usage will be weekend warrior twisties/lunch runs, or over night touring, if the car is dependable enough. No winter use where I live (cold central Wa state).
I have been looking through various forums and this one seems to be suited most for replica builds/owners (although largely Speedsters). Thank you for the great info I have read here already. Many sites frown on the replicas, which is ok I suppose. I don't aim to show the car and will probably be driving with a Boxter (2001) and a Pontiac roadster. I only hope a 356 Subie replica will hang for the most part.
Thanks for your opinions!
Max
I just picked up My JPS Outlaw 2110cc coupe in late June. My 10 yr old son and drove Route 66 as much as we cared for. 2500 miles in 4 days. Happy with the build. Its all about expectations. If you expecting a BMW, then these cars will disappoint you. They will need tweaks here and there. I expected to get a bit dirty, tighten a few bolts , adjust a few things, etc. 2110 cc has nice power even with the AC on full blast. 330 bhp turbocharged coupe has to be an insanely fun drive.
BEAUTIFUL COUPE....love it
I see South Atlanta Motorsports has a JPS suby Available... 1900miles
http://www.southatlantamotorsp...ls.aspx?VID=12367647
Could save you some time if you like what they have...l and these guys have a good history f some rating carts... car should be sorted I imagine with 1900miles... and the price seems ok.
http://www.southatlantamotorsp...ls.aspx?VID=12367647
Happy hunting!
I know a reasonably priced enclosed hauler that will bring cars to the Service Station at Rock Island,,,
That car in Atlanta looks to be the one sold in Phoenix last week. Same red piped interior.
Marked up 5000 dollars.... I know too much about this deal, and it kinda stinks.
MaxMartens posted:That car in Atlanta looks to be the one sold in Phoenix last week. Same red piped interior.
Marked up 5000 dollars.... I know too much about this deal, and it kinda stinks.
Did you want to buy it when $5K cheaper??
I did yes, or at least interested and talking to a salesman. There were issues we bartered on. Atlanta was who I was bidding against, and I balked because the fiberglass at the front hood hinge was busted up due to the hood being open/closed improperly... I know more than this but I cannot say any more.
In the end, I am inline for a JPS to be built to my wishes, which is a good topic in itself.
MaxMartens posted:I did yes, or at least interested and talking to a salesman. There were issues we bartered on. Atlanta was who I was bidding against, and I balked because the fiberglass at the front hood hinge was busted up due to the hood being open/closed improperly... I know more than this but I cannot say any more.
In the end, I am inline for a JPS to be built to my wishes, which is a good topic in itself.
Good luck on your build...hope to see pics as it evolves. Sometimes a lost deal is a blessing....hindsight....but sometimes you need to JUMP IN and hope there's air in the life jacket
I inquired about this one on Saturday. I got a video from them on Monday. Here's the two pics they sent me with his feed:
Dealer writes:
"Engine is fully polished...has a little more bling in person...real dark in Atlanta this morning"
If I were having a car built, and it was a perfect world, I would be visiting the builder at crucial points in the build out, chassis completed, body painted and engine install etc., and spend a week driving it near the builder's location to sort it.
Unfortunately, that would mean a lot of money in airline tickets and hotel bills. It's not so much about trust, but about involvement in the process. I'd try real hard not to make the builder nuts.
