New hot engine in replica- OVERHEATING!!! Need help

Hi guys just installed my new engine. 1916cc, engle 120, twin 40idfs, 044 heads - Good HP, V quick!!
BUT
The thing is overheating terribly even when taking it easy I get 10 minutes before I need to park it and wait 1/2 an hour. So hot yu can't even hold the oily end of the dipstick!
Q1. I have the std dog house cooler and it is not enough. I have added a remote oil cooler in the rear wheel well but it did not help (no air flow I guess). Where does one mount remote oil coolers on the replica speedsters?
Q2. Is there an issue with the oil pump when it comes to long plumbing lines if I mount the cooler near the front?
Q3. Has enyone ducted cool air from underneath the car into the fan intake? Any piCs on how to do it?
PLease help me avoid lunching my engine!!!

How do you US guys get thumpin big engines in your speedsters and keep themdrivable???

You're right, if you can't hold the stick it's way too hot.
Simple checks:
Check confirm correct timing 28-30 dgresees at 3000 rpms....
....too far advanced will create a lot of heat.
Carbs too lean?
Belt loose ?
Oil pump working correctly ?
Leave shop rag somewhere in the shrouding /tin blocking air ?
No air deflector cylinder tins ?
HD oil pump is fine to get the oil upfront cooler location.
"Dog house shroud" ..there are good ones that have the factory styled ribbing and the el' cheapos which delete the necessary fins.
Oil cooler in the wheel well should be good (I mount a fan assisted unit horizontal just above the driver's side axle and add a 2.5"
aluminum "scoop" to catch ambient air.
Ducted air to the fan can be done in few ways hose and 3/8" scoop (home heating heat duct)....use the front horn grills as intakes with hose attached then along the box frame and up to the air cleaner area.
Or, cut scoops out on the vertical side walls of the engine bay adding rectangular scoops to catch air in the wheel wells.

.......But back to the actual heat issue, do one thing at a time and check out the results, something is very much a foul. ~Alan

Alan,
Thanks for the response.
Timing is fine set to 30 degrees.
Carbs do not appear to be lean- No lean backfires.
Belt tension looks ok no fan slippage.
Oil pump working? How do I check this? The remote oil cooler is gettting hot so I suppose the pump is moving the oil around.
I am also running a remote oil filter- Could that be effecting flow?

A picture tells 1000 words. Alan any chance of posting picks of your cooler installation?

Nick,
Is your remote oil filter a Racor or Oberg style (big square metal sandwich with a metal screen in the middle)?

angela

Its a 9 pass oil cooler. the foiled type.

Just went down and looked at a mates speedster. Noticed mine has the firewall much further fwd. resulting in a big gap between the fan and the firewall.
I can also see the ground quite cleary. Wondering if I am drawing warmer air from the bottom of the car in lieu of cool air from the top.

My deck lid was also different. It has holes in the front and back and looks quite restrictive when compared to the real one. Come to think of it on hot days on the freeway even my 1600 would overheat at 4000rpm.

Whoaaaaa Nellie! If you can see the road from your engine compartment, you have some work to do.
See:http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=12547
You must segregate the top half of the engine from the bottom half.

~WB

Nick:

Good article with pictures on external (remote) oil coolers here: http://www.speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=349

Another one on sealing the engine compartment (and also adding holes to let more cool air in) here: http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=97

If it was running hot with a stock 1600 in there and you haven't made many cooling improvements, then it's really gonna run hot with anything larger displacement.

Hopefully, you're running stock GERMAN engine tins and fan shroud, but make sure that the air vanes are installed in the fan shroud and are working properly. THAT makes a big difference. Also, the fan shroud, doghouse cooler and engine tins from a 1971 VW or later will work much better than anything else on that size engine. Lastly, as several have already said, the entire engine compartment must be sealed off between top and bottom with proper shields.

Read through those articles to start, but, as Bill says, you've got a lot of work ahead to get it to where it'll be running cool.

Fortunately, there's a LOT of help on here for you, too!

gn

Angela,

Why did you ask about Oberg oil filters?

I plan on using one.

Thanks.

Oberg's are GREAT!!!

Best filter I've ever seen, AND they are cleanable - just open'em up, pull out the screen, swish it in gas, make sure the EPA's not lookin' ;>) and put it back in.

However, since they have a VERY fine mesh screen inside, if you don't service them whenever you do an oil change, they can clog up, restrict oil flow and generally mess you up by lessening the flow of oil and (if equipped) making the cooler less effective.

Because they don't LOOK like a typical oil filter (they're a rectangular box), I've seen a few people who bought cars, didn't know what it was and didn't mess with it. Later on their oil light comes on and you find that the clogged filter is stopping oil flow.

gn

Nothing to do with the Oberg, per say, I've been using Oberg/Racor for 20 years. They're awesome. I was exploring a different train of thought on this fellow's overheating problem with his new engine...

First off - with no engine tin to seperate upper and lower, I'm in with the other guys here - that is almost guaranteed to be the problem.

But let's explore another far more unpleasant avenue. A new engine. It overheats even with external coolers that "should" be quite adequate for this engine. If you pull the Oberg apart and examine the screen you may find the answer and it will make you SCREAM (terrible rhyme intended). The spyder's first engine was subject to overheating pretty early in the game. The oberg picked up the bearing material immediately and gave hard evidence that our engine was suffering internally. The dipstick engine builder assured us this was normal - I know better now... Catch it early, and a reputable engine builder may cover a partial warranty. Even if they don't, fixing it early is much cheaper than later. In our case, the clearances were so far off and the heating so great around one of the rod journals that the magnesium case warped. The repair on this engine at that point, was extaordinary in cost - in fact I think we spent less building the 3.0 to 3.2 including twin-plugging the heads than we would have spent to fix the first disaster!

As stated above - the problem with THIS one is 99.99% likely to be the engine tin/seperation of top and bottom of the engine...

angela

Oh by the way, if you use an oberg/racor and you don't have the idiot light plugged in, there's another tattle-tale for this flter. Listen for a weird tapping sound. Inside the filter case there is a ball bearing looking thing with a spring on it. Its the bypass. If the screen plugs, the bypass activates. It makes a distinct metallic tapping sound. You'll freak the first time you hear it, just sure you have a rod-knock or something truly hideous going on. Do the "broom-stick" test to find the source of the sound, and feel very relieved when it is the by pass valve in the oberg and nothing at all in the engine...

This too was a lesson the spyder's first engine taught us... This is not an issue with any type of regular maintenance on any type of mechanically sound engine.
angela

I wired the light switch in the Oberg to an unused light in my Speedster speedometer. The light should come on if the filter needs cleaning.

All,
In, the above forum:
http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=97
it states
"....I DO leave the base of the forward fire wll open about 1 1/2". This allows for clean air to enter the engine bay and savage the warmer air back out of the deck lid vent....."

This guy is recommending a gap fwd of the fan between the fanand the shroud. Am I reading it right?

Nick, Just like the factory---seal it. Does your firewall have a cutout opposite of the fan intake? If you want to eliminate these sealing issues for t/shooting. Pop your engine cover off or up and duplicate your previous ride and monitor changes. Again, how do you know you are running hot? How about an oil temp dipstick? Cheap/effectice. If your engine fan shoud
engine tin surface is baking I'm still leaning toward the sealing issue-allowing hot air to rise and be recirculated.

Here's two other ones:

https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=12190

https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=10155

Ok.
I have closed off the front of the engine.
Drove at night time and observed improvement but not enough.
Getting a dipstick gauge to measure actual oil temp.

Can someone please post a photo of their deck showing the vent holes. I am interested in seeing how air gets thru the lids on other replicas. Mine is very different to an original.

nick, fwd firewall should be cut.

Yeah there should be opening in front of cooling fan (see CMC build manual in Library). When moving that is good fresh cool intake air. The sides and back where the exhaust/heat exchangers are, are what absolutely have to be blocked off. You really need a oil temperature gauge to know if its too hot. Suspect dip stick ones are more accurate than in block ones (would depend where you screw it in). (A T before cooler and one after cooler with a toggle swich to the gauge would show amount of cooling the remote cooler does). I doubt I could hold a 175 degree dip stick for long. The oil temp gauges go up to 300 degrees - suspect running temperature is 160-190 with spike in summer if running hard or up hill. A sheet metal of fiberglass scoop from bottom to your remote cooler - even flexible aluminum dryer vent hose - might route enough air to it to make a 15 degree difference.

Guy on THESAMBA says his T1 thru T4 typically run 110-145C when run hard - if my conversion is correct that's a hot 230-291! Suspect I wouldn't want to see it much over the lower temperature.

Wolfgang:

The real question on those engines that are supposedly running 230 - 291F is: "How long do they last?"

I have the same engine in my Tub, also a oil temp gauge it show 190 pretty consitant, but I was told by the mechanic that oil temp and the engine temp is different and that will get me in trouble if I rely on that number now i'm confused. He also notice the circular cut out in front of my doghouse fan told me to seal that up, it may be sucking hot air from the tranny?? Cabanaboy~ tinkering!

Nick, look at Patricks pics in the link below. Notice the firewall cut out in the engine pic.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-356-Porsche-Speedster-Replica-HotVW-Cover-car-SB100-Cert_W0QQitemZ180156049157QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6428QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem