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For years I was a Replica Wantabe and finally made the grade emblems and all. Now you tell me I really am a Porsche Wantabe simply because of the emblems? I don't think so, I am very happy with the replica and have no problem telling others that it is a replica. I believe the true Wantabe is the one that finds it painful to admit that thier car is a replica! If the shoe fits!

My 20 pennies
I prefer the term "replicar" over "kit car." If I had built it, the kit car description would seem more accurate. When someone asks me about it I always represent it to be a replica, not an original. If I get the most frequently asked question, "what year is that?" I just respond with 1957. If that is the only thing someone wants to know, I don't see that it makes any difference whether I say 1957, 1968 or 2000.
my two kroner
John H.
I agree with John; if the car arrived in pieces/subassemblies and I put it together then it would be a kit car. If it is professionally built by an established company that provides finished cars for sale then it is a replica. This difference may also matter to your state licensing bureau and/or auto insurance company.
Ever read some of the Brit mags? Old "kit" cars have a big following there! Nothing derogatory. In fact, some of the recent replicas (I think the GT40's) can be entered in the vintage races with the originals.

Then there were those who made replica 250GTOs in those crazy days of the late 80's. They were, for the most part, Ferraris but not 250 GTOs.

Look in any Excellance mag and you'll see an article on at least one car that has been modified to the extent that I think it would be very difficult to call it a Porsche.

There's a guy in BC, Canada who will provide you with the parts to build a 962. Many of the 962's had so many aftermarket and non-Porsche parts that I don't know how you'd call it a Porsche.

When Brabus does a Benz up is it no longer a Benz?

I don't know...they are after all just cars. I happen to like the shape, the simplicity, the light weight, the rush you get when you're sitting that close to the ground...it just gets the blood flowing.

Brian
Here's the 962 site...hope you have DEEP pockets!

www3.telus.net/962/

This appears to be more of a hobby for this individual. He's not a builder of replicas but rather a builder and supplier of parts that you can use to build a replica or refurbish a race car. The 904 project sounds interesting...

There was an article in an Ecellance mag last year on a 904 replica built in England that looked real nice. SC engines gave it outstanding performance. Next to the speedster I think that the 904 was the nicest looking car Porsche built.

Brian Puskas
This is for Erik and a few others, anyone interested in an Outlaw 356.

If you like the look and feel of a track 356 for the street and don't have the money, but do have the time and obviously have the skill because of what you currently own and drive (Speedsters) Why not just build an Outlaw out of the two things that you love and understand. Pick up an old parts car 356 Coupe (honestly they are all over the place for under $3,000 and get a nice solid Beetle pan and join the two.

You can build a track/race suspension for the Beetle for next to nothing (compared to other sports cars) and have a motor built for . . .well you already know the answer.

Shorten the frame and mount the body. Keep the genuine Posche trim to a minimum and do the interior up race style with fiberglass seats and aluminum paneling.

It is fairly simple and cheap and fun. for under $10,000 you have that "real" Porsche with Speedster replica underpinnings and the look and feel of an Outlaw. Plus all of the fun and excitement of building your own ride. AND you can put "Porsche" script on it, if you like, and only feel HALF bad about doing it!
Evil,

I spoke with Gary at Parts Obsolete a year+ ago; he suggested looking for a Coupe that the owner had lost interest in restoring and use that as a platform re an Outlaw Coupe. Am with you there, Evil.

I have been trolling ebay ever since to get a feel for the going rate. I want a factory sunroof. Beyond that I am not sure about using a beetle chassis... I would stick with a reworked 356 chassis. Lots of neat potential though, 944 brakes f/r, a strong engine and drivetrain, full roll cage, retro racer look... Abrath Coupe Uber Allis!

I wouldn't feel right about modifying a Coupe in cherry condition.

By my reckoning it would cost close to $30k. From informal conversations with Carey the Beck Coupe if it is built will cost about the same, and you would have a tube frame.
Great I just get my Porsche script and now if I put it on I'm a wannabe. Well I wannaputiton because I think it looks good. The gearheads that know cars always put their finger under the wheel well Yell THIS IS A FAKE But its a real nice one. I have fun fooling people I think it's part of the fun of owning a replica. One guy came up to me and asked now much a fixer upper would cost? I said if you could find one maybe 20,000 30,000 , then I said you know they make replicas that are real nice. He replied I wouldn't have one of those if you gave to me I want one just like yours!!. I said I know what you mean and drove away with a big smile.

WAnnafoolya Dick

Gee that would make a great lic. plate Wanafuya
Erik,

BUT, you're still right in the middle of THIS argument/post. An Outlaw coupe will bring twice what a Beck repro would bring if you were to sell. It's a real Porsche, no matter how you want to slice it, and it's titled as such. If you buy a Beck repro, especially with a tube chassis, you lose the VW connection. What will the title say and what will the year be listed as . . .

Insurance, emisions, and sales/excise taxes.

Go real on THIS one, anyway.

TC
Evil,

I need to get my basketcase McSpeedster back on the road first...

That said, I have been following Coupe Outlaw selling prices on the Internet for several years -- I can about promise you that you won't get back what you have into the project. You modify something it turns off some people. Those with Outlaw taste buds are the minority so the potential resale market is smaller than one would think. Also, were I to follow Erik's vision it would be retro racer geared more towards function than posing, i.e., no rear seat, full roll cage making ingress and egress slightly demanding, etc., etc. You build it your way because you are passionate about it and heck with the rest. I don't give a rat's ass if our cars are replica's. Who cares?

I think a Beck Coupe would hold its value just dandy, a car that doesn't rust, tube framed, Vw replacement parts, what's not to love? The question is up to Beck to decide whether the projected numbers are there to gear up for a production run. The only thing I would be reluctant about a Beck would be could I buy a rolling Coupe without an engine, transmission, bumpers, interior, paint, rims, etc., etc.

In my state a new tube framed car would not be a problem, nor would emissions, etc.
Erik,

Yup you right!!

I did a quick look around. I only found ONE Outlaw for sale that I recognized from the Obsolete site, a yellow one, and it was selling for a very low price. Especially considering what you mentioned the were selling for "new".

I just love them so much, I never thought that the outlaw style would be so . . . unpopular . . . with the Porsche populace at large. What's not to love? It seems that they are genuinely accepted by the Speedster crowd much, much more than the 356 crowd in general.

Thanks for the eye opener! Never would have thought . . .

TC

The guys at Parts Obsolete are Masters in their craft. Your better be patient though, it is a two-plus year waiting list. And you better have a pocket full of cash in big bills too, if I recall correctly you are looking at $80K++ for their full frame off treatment.

A poster here provided this wonderful link -- check it out!

bruceclement.com/356/outlaw.htm

Personally I am glad more people don't lust for Outlaw Coupes. I would rather take the lesser traveled path... Abarth Coupe Uber Allis!

As far as recouping costs go...

I was watching Barret Jackson the other day and was amazed to see heavily modified 50's American iron going for 2 to 3 times what the same car restored to as new would go for. Of course that's BJ's and I can't believe that most of those folks are real...

I just can't understand the interest in these Rods though...

Brian
Erik!!

WOW! That poster page went right into my "favorites folder, Thank you so much!

I may have to boogy on this club/site since I've now, thanks to you, changed my mind about the Speedster!

I"ve been picking parts here and there to fabricate a "home-built" Speedster. (Not perfect, but presentable in a "track car" fashion) I'm really good with fiberglass and was all set to mold/made the missing parts this Fall. I even located a complete rear clip from a real speedster that the owner would rent to me so that I could splash a fiberglass clip of my own.

ALL GONE AND FORGOTTEN!

I'm going to turn the time and attention to my 55 356 Coupe and do it up Outlaw style. I could never get any of the pics on the Obsolete page to enlarge (they all said "missing") and had no idea just how sensational and different these car are. Now I'm truely hooked!

The little Coupe is missing some bits and pieces and would cost way too much to "restore " it correctly. It's an early Continental , but even so, it would go way over value to do it up right. Now I'm all set. Just go the same route as you would with an H Production MG 'cept use the 356 as a base instead. Cage, seats, gauges, steering wheel, aluminum panelling, etc. Easy Peasy. Swap in a big block VW engine and built trans, that leaves the brakes and body. Switch to a drop spindle, disk VW beam, VW Thing rear backing plates. shoes and drums, a camber compensator and new bushings and that leaves the body.

Over simplification, but totally do-able over the Summer and Winter. Next year . . . it's outlaw time.

Thanks again!!

TC
Evil,

Under the "EVENTS" heading there are a number of posters who will be attending the annual Parts Obsolete campout in a couple of weeks. Ask them nicely and I am sure they will post some great photos of the Outlaws that will be attending.

For Outlaws (coupes and Speedsters) that is the place to be -- it might be worth your while to catch a flight so you can do some up-close-and-personal research. You would definitely be preaching to the choir in that crowd.

Check the Internet for photos of the 356 "Abarth" Coupe. Ugly/beautiful.

One of these days I will build a slut with class myself. Outlaw Uber Allis.

Erik,

Again, I owe you big time Buddy! That Abarth is so ugly/beautiful that I almost can't stop looking at it. It feels so odd, it's NEVER happened with any other car . . .

I'm going to try to Photoshop an image or my Porsche Coupe and Ghia Coupe together and see if I can't come up with something vaguely similar to the Abarth.

If I do! I'll have to take the fiberglass roof that I was making from the 356 and try fitting it to the Ghia, and then . . . maybe . . .

Anyway THANK YOU! Once again, and I'll link to the pictures if they work out so that you can take a look.

Enjoy the Holiday!

TC
My understanding during the early years Porsche didn't have a factory race program -- by choice. They would sell race cars to qualified teams or wealthy buyers, if the cars didn't do good Porsche could always say, hey, its not our program. If the cars got good results, hey, its a Porsche, what did you expect?

The Abarth effort was funded by the Italian muffler company by the same name. Raced at Le Mans, etc. Abarth changed some body parts, which caused friction with Stuttgart, but they got good results.

If you have the bucks go with a large aftermarket racing fuel cell, extra fuel weight over the front beam isn't a bad thing. Imagine, locking doors with roll up windows, dry no matter how hard it rains, cool beans.
Hello:

I have read all the comments on whether it is a real Porsche or not. I have had car collectors leave notes on mine, saying they were interested in buying. I have had past owners of "real" porsches say "what a great restoration job".

When people ask me if "its real", I tell them to touch it, if nothing is there it is a mirage.

I have often tried to explain to people it is Vintage reproduction, and tell them why I think it is better than the "real car" and they have always listened with interest, and some even wanted Vintage's web site.

I have the money to buy a "real porsche 356", but like other classics I have owned, it isn't fun. I had a constant worry of damage in parking lots, theft, even with American cars. I had a classic Camero, convertible and drove it, and worried. I don't believe in garage queens, as many of the "real porsches" are.

Besides the advantage of driving my "Porsche" everday it is a lot faster (1915 cc engine) disk brakes, wider rims and tires, the combination make it a far better car then the original. Price at resale if always less for a reproduction, then a real "collector". If you compare the loss of 50 percent in five years, and at that point it will remain around 10 to 12 thousand, that is far better than the majority of new cars. (check Edmunds for the resale value after 5 years, top ten list. Many are 48 per cent of original, but the rest are far less. As an investment it holds a very high resale price.

I am a "doctor", a nerd, 2 PhDs, 2 Masters, presently a "biosychosocial" research psychologist. I was a clinician. People who are comfortable with themselves are comfortable what they buy for pleasure. People who are not, are looking for external self esteem.

I am a nerd, but my other half is Indiana Jones. My colleagues believe I am crazy to scuba dive deep, climb mountains, race sailboats, and do my own mechanical work. In Asia I would be called a "black hand" worker, my education would not fit into the social culture. It doesn't here either. Driving my Vintage Porsche is very strange to many nerds, as is life. Do I care, no. Would I take a collector 356 if given to me? Absolutely yes, and I would sell it, buy a replica and use the rest of the money to go on some adventure. I have a BMW 1150 R motorcycle. I'd use the rest of the money to finance a trip from San Francisco to the tip of South America.

So when you buy a replica, you are already a bit "strange" to most of the population, and certainly a bit "eccentric".

Enough lecture, but that is what nerds do, and I am already tired of reading my message. Please remember anybody with a "reproduction" is an individualist, and if people told the "truth", most would be envious of not having the nerve to break free from the pack of sheep like existence they live in. I suspect in another time, you would all be the mountain men, the explorers, ahead of others.

Good for you and me and our reproductions.

RWBecker
I thought this site was about enjoying our speedsters. But instead, a few self loathing members have informed me i'm a fraud. How dare i fool the public like that. I guess i should hang my head in shame.

Or should we all post a disclaimer notice on our doors. It could read. This car is not a real porsche. and i apologize for having made you think it was. But i'm a poor miserable wannabe porsche owner, and i just can't help myself. This disclaimer approved by Ron O

Would that be ok Ron?
Vince, as one of the rest of these guys, I can only speak for myself; I have no interest in discontent here - seeking it or causing it. I would imagine there's like a ga-jillion places on the internet where people can engage in the typing equivalent of slinging feces at each other, endlessly and pointlessly spouting mind-numbing opinions and insults. This site is for the most part not one of those kind of places, and maybe very few, if any, others here share your like of discontent.
Hmmm, discontent for the heck of it. Hmmm... seems to me there is enough of that going around these days, especially in Washington, D.C.

Sometimes its proper to piss in the soup to get a reaction but the older I get the less frequent I am tempted to do so.

This place is like a comfortable neighborhood bar. If I wanted to brawl I would that it some place else.
I do not enjoy being negative. But the only place i have ever heard any negative comments regarding speedsters and there owners, Has been on this site. And those negative things are put forth by other owners.

I take offense when a guy i have never met starts to tell me and everyone else that has porsche script is a wannabe.

No matter what script is on the car. It looks like a porsche 356. I would ask Ron O. When you say that you tell people that your car is a replica. What do you tell them it is a replica of? Because, According to you. it's not cool to say porsche. I have porsche script, and i tell everyone that it is a replica. So what the hell is the problem. Well the problem is that you labled a bunch of us on this site in a negative maner. And i for one do not like it.
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