If you have a stock VW trans you might consider changing to a 3:44 ring and pinion. Sure made a helluva difference in mine. Makes all of your gears a little taller so you can utilize all that torque you now have.

If it isn't clearly stamped as such how does one identify a 3:44 ring & pinion?

Rick, if you don't have front disc brakes you'll need them.

Yes, Ron thank you I do have new front disc brakes.

 

I would like to ask also in particular, the question of transmissions. “I have been told on this end that by changing to a 2276cc Stroker engine I need to also change to a custom designed, completely new drive line consisting of New Transmission, U-Joints, Drive Shafts, and a complete change in Clutch Assembly parts and their sub assemblies. I was advised further that without replacing my V.W. stock drive assembly these “Stock Parts” would self destruct.” Now I know that if I we’re going to race this car I might be able to find a sponsor to flip the bill on additional upgrades that would never end, however I do not plan on racing the car on a tract or drag strip. The car will be used on city streets and driven in normal everyday traffic.

So, with that in mind do I need these $expensive$ upgrades?

My low bux Soob conversion rarely sees over 140 ft. lbs torque and I'm just running a stock VW drivetrain with a slightly "custom" clutch disc. I tend to drive like you describe that you like to drive so we might be in about the same boat. About 18,000 miles on it now with the Soob, about 30,000 miles on it earlier combined with the stock 1600, then 1835 aircooled engines with no knowledge of history before that.

Sully,

 

Conventional wisdom is that anyone who would spend the extra $$ for that sized engine is going to get on it occasionally.  Standard VW running gear was designed for 1600 cc power or not much more.  You now likely have twice (or more) the HP of the originally-designed power plant.  Sooner or later, you will likely be using that power.  If you baby it, you can probably get by for a while, but something between the crank and the wheels will eventually fail.  That has been my experience.  I'm sure others in the 2+ liter range will chime in.   

 

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If you like the way the car is geared now, then leave that part of it alone. There are a number of internal modifications that will help a stock transaxle live a longer life with a "spirited driver" and a 2276cc motor (which can easily make more than David's Subie)- welded 3rd and 4th gears, 4 side gears in a stronger than stock differential housing, the list goes on and can cost 1,000- $2,000. If you can drive it as you describe and "roll on" the power gradually, your trans may last a long time.

 

Bottom line- it will depend on how you drive it. When I was a much younger man I scattered a transaxle with an almost stock 1600. Burnouts in the rain quickly take their toll....Al

 

Carl- The 3.44 r&p is an aftermarket part (Rancho sells them), and you probably won't find one in any used transaxle you buy. I don't know how they're marked, but if you divide the number of teeth on the ring gear by the teeth on the pinion, you'll know the ratio.

 

Rick- Do you know the specs of your 2276?

*1956 Porsche 356 Speedster (Replica)

 

*Dry weight: 1470lbs.

 

*ENGINE CASE:   BRAZILIAN HEAVY DUTY BUBBLE TOP ALUMINUM ENGINE CASE - BORED    FOR 94MM PISTONS -MACHINED FOR STROKER CRANK / FOR 10MM HEAD STUDS.

*Pistons and Cylinders:  Big Bore Stroker (2275cc) 82mm x 94mm Bore   

*DPR Crankshaft: Stroker 82mm 4340 Cromoly, Balanced, 8 Dowels, Heat Treated, and Counterweighted blueprinted and balanced, EMPI 4340 Chromyl H-Beam design.

*Camshaft:  High Performance    #120 CAMSHAFT... 435 Lift / 294 Duration.

*Aluminum Big Valve 42 Heads:  40mm Intake x 35.5mm Exhaust Valves JCS Racing Heads Ported and Polished with H.D. 1:25 Ratio rocker arms and dual high rev springs; 4140 chromyl push rods, cut to length 11.600 long 3/8”

 *Flywheel: EMPI New 200mm 12 Volt Chromalloy Lightened Flywheel, Drilled and Supplied with11/32" Dowel Pins.

 *Carburetors: Dual 44IDF Weber’s from Spain with oversize jets on dual offsetting manifolds.

*Oil Pump: New Heavy Duty (steel) 30mm Gear Drive Oil Pump.     

 *Bosch Hard start relay for starter.

*Bosh Distributor with .009 Blue Coils.

*Bosch H.P. Plugs.

*High temp. EMPI spark Plug Wires.

*55amp H.P.  Chrome Alternator.  

*Full-flow oil filters leading up to the two front aluminum oil coolers. 

Rick- Depending on the heads, this motor should put out 150- 165hp, have a great torque curve and will be a total blast to drive. This 2276 is somewhat similar- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265227&highlight=

Let us know how long the stock transaxle lasts. Al

PS- Do you know the compression ratio of the motor? Good looking car, btw.

Rick, that is one BAD A$$ car! Welcome to the Madness and Enjoy the ride! 

I know that as soon as the engine goes over 90 HP, Special Edition (Beck) installs a Ranch Pro transmission.  That's what I have in mine.  Also, you need bigger exhaust than stock if you want to get all of that HP.  If you have heat, that also means bigger heater boxes.

Thanks Al as to a teeth counting mathematical identification of a 3:44 r/p. I'm running a 2110 - Great torque that I'm cautious with! -  but I'm unhappy with the short first and second gear...first gear especially; it's wound up tightly just getting through an intersection...and Rusty Smith mentioned that a 3:44 r/p will lengthen all my gears.

 

Since I have an EJ22 patiently waiting in the wings for the 2110 to belly up on me, I might as well have a 3:44 waiting too...if I can afford it! 

Yes Carl, if you're unhappy with 1st and 2nd then a longer ring & pinion is a good solution. Do you know what's in the transaxle now? A quick check on the Samba didn't show any 3.44's for sale (doesn't mean they're not there); a call to Rancho Transmissions (I believe they had them made) would confirm availability and whether they are going to do another run. They were 350 or $400, and then the box has to be torn down for the install. The reason I said earlier that you're not likely to encounter one in a used transaxle is they're a fairly new item and anybody selling one in a transaxle is probably going to know what he has, and I'm sure let you know it.

 

Another option is to change just the 1st-2nd gearset, but that is a more expensive way to go- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...etail.php?id=1463321

 

Rick- Tom brought up a good point; you don't have the exhaust listed. Do you know what's on it (what size tubing)? And what size tires are you running on the car? I took another look at the pic and agree with Jim; badass is a pretty good description! Al

Yes, the following items you ask for are on the car now;

 

* Competition Merged Exhaust 1 5/8” System with “PhatBoy” turbo muffler.

 

*All 4 tires are mounted on steel wheels, they are;

Goodyear Eagle G.T., 205/65 R 15.

 

Thanks Al for your response,

Rick

 

 

Thank you for your response,

I have just joined in the conversation and ask the question about my install, to which I have already received several good comments and look forward to any others. My rebuilding experience with this car started after I retired 5 years ago, since then I have learned a lot about do’s and Don’ts, I have had no luck in finding a local knowledgeable mechanic that knows about the V.W. Engines, (the 2275cc Engine I have now was custom built in California and shipped here to Dallas for install) consequently I have had to pay for a lot of bad mechanics in their trial and error. However, I do think for now the worst is over and I can drive the car with confidence and for now at least not hear any funny noises.

Thanks, Rick

 

Thanks, Tom

I have 1 5/8" Competition Merged Exhaust, with no heater boxes, C.H.T. on #3.

 

Thanks, Rick

<compression ratio of the motor>

10:1/ 104 Octane Race fuel additives.

Boys, I think the 3.44 R&P is an aftermarket-only gear set. VWs came with 3.88s at best--those were in the 1973 and later boxes.

 

Weddel adverts 3.44s for $325--cheaper than their other gear ratios?!

http://weddleindustries.com/products/new-products/new-388-ratio-vw-type-1-ring-pinion-sets-made-usa

 

This looks to be their "bargain" gear set but for a guy who's only driving in normal traffic it may be the ticket.

 

Pull your transaxle & bring it to a guy who builds them. He'll go through it, weld on a couple gears, maybe change out a couple synchros, and install that 3.44 for maybe $400 over a weekend. So you'll be in and out for like $800.

 

If it's not already there, add a stage II Kennedy clutch for another--what?--$200 say? And bolt it back together in your garage.

 

Then never think about it ever again. Done.

Thanks Ed.

It seems that a 3.44 r&p along with a .82 4th will put me on cloud nine!

I've been advised to contact Rancho, (and you've suggested Weddle) for their advice and prices...DONE!  (Might as well follow through with this while I'm still accustomed to a rice & bean diet)

 

Finding a VW swing axle tranny guru who's still active might be a problem though.

 

BTW, I've got the Kennedy Stage Two sitting on a shelf patiently waiting for the 'maddness' to dust it off and put it to work!

There is a Tub Club in Dallas.  They could hook you up with good mechanics.

Jeez Doug, I hope I don't have to go that far to find an experienced competent, tranny guru....It's a loooong way from Bethel Connecticut to Dallas Texas. 

...but, on second thought Doug... Rick Sullivan might be interested!

That is a bit of a distance.  I might have gotten you confused with Rick or the other way around.

Does any body know why I would have a drilled hole in the bottom of the bell housing, someone told me it might be to cool the clutch down during stops.???

Carl- Ed's right about the 3.44 r&p being an aftermarket gearset (I believe I mentioned this in my first post). Be advised that a 3.44 with the .82 4th (and 24.5" rear tires) will be useless below 65-68 or 70mph; a VW motor will not be turning the fan fast enough (65 will be about 2500rpm) to cool properly. This gearing may work with a Subaru motor; I'll let those more knowledgable chime in. Swing axle and irs transaxles are essentially  the same (the differentials are different) so any trans expert familiar with VW gearboxes could do the ring and pinion. Whether he knows all the tricks to build a box from the ground up to withstand the additional power will be the $64,000 question, it that's needed as well.

 

Rick- That's 3/4 to a full point more than I would run with pump gas with that cam; watch oil and cylinder head temps closely. I have tried (without any real success) octane additives in the past; most of them are solvents (toluene, annaline and ???) and while they do slow the burn down (so the motor doesn't ping), a couple of degrees more timing is sometimes needed and this allows more heat absorption into the head and piston crown.

 

I would guess that someone drilled a hole in the bottom of the bellhousing to drain the oil from a leaky seal...

 

Hope this helps. Al

 

Thanks Al,

Your information confirms my overnight revised thinking of being cautious... taking little steps, and listening very carefully to experience!

 

I don't know what my 4th gear ratio is but a more conservative 3:88 r&p will stretch my 2110 shifting points now...and I can hold off on a revised 4th, that will really be cruise comfortable, when the EJ22 is bolted in. 

 

 

Thanks, Al

Correct - The Freeway Flyer transaxle has the .82 fourth in it. The stock transaxle has a .89 and works great with the 3:44 at freeway speeds.

 

Rick - send me a message if you want detailed info on transaxle gearing ratios and how they apply to the different motors. I've had pretty good success but I did the math!

 

 

I thought a 'freeway flier' transmission had a 3.88 R&P and a .89 4th.  Another combination is a 4.12 R&P and a .82 4th, which in my opinion, is a very bad combo.  I think a 3.88 R&P with a .82 4th would be even worse.  The gap between 3rd and 4th would be huge.

I had a .82/3.88 for a while. You're correct, Ron-- it was quite a reach from third.

Hey, RonO

 

With good advice from my friends here at SOC I'm now mentally diagraming the possibilities for my future R/P and 4th...A 'big' 3rd to 4th drop wouldn't be objectionable since I'm almost always in 3rd while coping with town traffic, and don't shift into 4th until I've reached, or nearly reached, sustainable highway speed. The 2110 has torque enough now to quickly close an RPM gap on the open road.  

The term "freeway flier" was coined by a company in the '80's(?) that's no longer around, and has come to mean different things to different people. Whether you're modifying a stock transaxle (usually with a 4.125 r&p) with a 3.88 r&p or a .82 4th gear, the end result is similar but very different to drive. With stock 3rd (1.31 for most transaxles), shifting at 3500rpm puts you at almost 2400rpm with the stock 4th (.89) and a 4000rpm shift in 3rd drops the rpms to 2700 in 4th. This spacing, although a little on the wide side from a performance perspective (close ratio 3rd and 4th gears are sooo much more fun  but the drop in useable highway speeds really sucks!), works, keeping the aircooled motor in the proper rpm range for cooling.

 

Stock gears and the 3.88 works very well (especially with a 2 liter or bigger), lengthening every gear but maintaining the stock gear spacing. On the other hand, as Ron mentioned, a .82 4th with the stock 3rd is a huge gap. That 3500rpm shift from 3rd drops engine speed to only 2200rpm in 4th. Now the fan isn't spinning fast enough for the motor to cool itself. Shifting at 4000rpm only puts you at 2500rpm in 4th, still a little low for cruising. And (to paraphrase Ron again) a 3.88 r&p, with it's faster speeds, just aggravates the situation.

 

The .82 gear's place is in a 5 speed, where you can shorten up the lower gears (for more fun!!!!) and still have the option for a decent highway cruising speed. For a number of years my transportation was a bug with close gears (4.375 r&p, 1.12 4th) and while it made the car a legitimate 14 second ride, 3500 in 4th was about 52mph, and it took forever to get anywhere. Al

 

Carl- Draw it out on graph paper beforehand; if the grey zone (with an aircooled motor) where you're too high in 3rd/too low in 4th is where you spend any time it's a royal pain. You may be happier with stock gear spacing and a longer r&p....

http://www.actionimport.com/Te...r_ratio_computer.htm

Carl has been emailing me about this and I admit to his questions being a bit beyond me for the following reason; he wants to have a set of gear ratios which he hopes will work well with both an air cooled engine, and later will work well with a water cooled Suby.  These might be a bit mutually exclusive, but I think there is an easy answer...  

 

Using my wife's suby as an example, it seems really happy to cruise along at almost any road speed at around 2K-2,500 rpm.  IIRC, at 65-ish it's still well under 3 grand rpm.  While my 2,110 can do that without lugging, as Al mentioned it's a bit below the optimum cooling speed of the fan and our gearing is selected for optimum fan speed, not necessarily engine RPM, especially for the larger engines many of us run.

 

Every Suby engine I've seen, though, is a rev'ing beast and can certainly live at aircooled rpm's on the turnpike, like 3,500-4,000 rpm, all day long, without issue.  The problem will be with the driver thinking it's rev'ing higher than it should be.

 

The best answer, as I can see it, is a 5-speed 901 out of a 912 (or easily converted from a 914) to get the closer-ratio 1-4 and a 5'th gear "overdrive" to keep everyone happy.  I haven't done my homework on what ratios are run in those transmissions, but it would seem that a lot of 912/914 owners were happy with them and they should be OK for a suby engine, too.

 

What do the rest of you ratio gurus think?  We need to help Carl through his learning curve.

Aaaa, You people are terrific...a gold mine of advice and information. If this forum and its electronic communication had been available 40 years ago my '59 normal coupe and the 61 super90 roadster would still be in the driveway!

 

A five speed 901 has got to be 'tranny Nirvana'...(In fact last winter I got scammed out of a tail shift 901 from a '71 914. My blood pressure peaks every time I think of it)...but the problem with a 901 is the swing axle geometry in my VS... which I wasn't aware was a problem while in the enthusiastic but brain-dead process of being scammed.

 

Right now my thinking follows Rusty Smith's recommendation of a 3:44 R/P to stretch out the stock gearing for the 2110, and later should also adequately accommodate the EJ22....But any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

 

BTW, Gordon has evolved a simple but terrific 'Ques/Ans format: Logical, direct, wise... and even witty!  

 

Gordon,

 

I've been trying to let you guys in on a well kept secret. Just like VW has an optimum fan speed which is directly related to engine RPM for cooling, Subaru has one also for moving coolant through the cooling system with the water pump that is also directly related to engine RPM. There are these funny little guys with pocket protectors and PHD's, a ton of schooling and an extremely good working knowledge of mechanical engineering, fluid dynamics, and believe it or not aerodynamics. These crazy little guys design all day long 5 days a week and have others double and triple checking there work along with computers that can simulate how things are going to work in a virtual world.

 

Yes, you can run your Subi engines at 3000 rpm with VW gearing and still be in the window of good cooling by running larger radiators because you can not use the stock size one unless you mount it in front of the hood on the front bumper to get enough air in and out of it. By installing a larger radiator you effectively increase fluid capacity and cooling system surface area, but you also increase the load on the water pump and the drive otherwise known as the timing belt on most 2.0 & 2.5 subi engines. My point is you can disguise a cooling system not working correctly or the way it was designed and yes you can run your engines at much higher RPMs then designed, and yes they will run for awhile at least. Just do not expect the engine life to be the same as it was in the stock vehicle.

 

Another way to look at it is to install a coolant gauge that reads the actual temp and give a numeric reading. When we did this back when we started running Subi engines, we like you fellas thought they were doing fine. Then we noticed that after a 30 minute drive at regular freeway speeds our temps started creeping up. We saw the temp go from a good 180 up to 230 before pulling off because at around this temperature you are starting to flash the oil (breaking it down) and causing bearing failure. Now depending on the size of your radiator and how much coolant and how effective your cooling fans are this may take more or less time to happen. As soon as we went to five speed transaxles that were geared for a Water cooled engine, our temps dropped and became more stable.

 

Now for you guys that say "I'll just put in a larger cooling system and never get that hot". This is bad also as you can keep and engine too cool. To cool you say? Yes all materials have a expansion and contraction rate and size. If you keep an engine too cool the materials will not expand from the heat properly and the tolerances will not be reached. This is really critical in the bearing and piston areas of the engine. If the engineered tolerance is not reached then correct oil pressure is not reached, and piston slop is more then the design model. This also leads to excessive engine wear and early failure.

 

Basically everything has design parameters that should be understood and adhered to. Not doing so is silly and is fine as long as you understand what your doing.

 

Sorry if I come across harsh, however since I do this professionally, people expect what I do to be perfect. We all know none of us are perfect, however I have done a lot of research and testing to make the things I do as close as I can humanly. I have chosen to try and share these things I have learned by doing this on the scale that we do in hopes to help you fellas and keep you from some of the pitfalls that can happen.

 

Good luck and happy motoring..... 

Thanks for that fine dissertation, Kevin. I'll be the first to pull my pants down and say that I really didn't know what I was doing when I rigged up my cooling system when I installed my EJ22 Soob. I may be asking too much from my water pump with my current configuration and I have wondered about it before. If you are serious about helping some fellas like us, I'll humbly ask for all you'll give. Should I start a new thread or would it be ok to accept the thread drift and ask questions right here ? Thanks.

I prefer ones like this that does side by side comparisons with graphs: http://www.teammfactory.com/gear-calculator