New Upright Type 4 Engine Build

@awotton posted:

• Is a non-return valve required to stop the oil in the oil cooler draining back into (and potentially “flooding”) the engine case once the engine stops and/or cause a problem on start-up?.
• Is it better to plumb the oil cooler for the pumped line “in” at the bottom and the return line “out” from the top, or vice-versa

Check the oil when it's running. This is what we do in Formula Vee. My oil cooler outlets are facing down and do indeed drain back into the case upon shutdown.

A non-return valve is just some more complication that can fail. The amount of oil in the cooler and lines will be a quart or less of possible drain back. As soon as the starter is engaged, the oil will be pumped through the lines, lowering the level in the sump. It's a non-issue.

Having said all that, the oil cooler in my (mid-engine) Spyder is the same one you have. I've mounted it with the in and out facing up just because of where the cooler is mounted and the ease of running the oil lines.

Not the greatest(actually pretty bad) shot to illustrate but you can see that brown(faded black anodize) AN8 hose end in the middle of the right side of the picture. That is the oil cooler inlet. You can also see the oil hoses on top of the right side frame rail near the right side shock top.

^^Everything he said!^^

A couple more thoughts:

1.  I have my cooler set up with the flow going in at the bottom and out at the top (where the fan sensor is, too).  That seems to work OK for me, and there is no check-valve in the system.  Actually, I'll have to get out there and check the ins and outs and report back, because I also run a MOCAL oil diverter switch to isolate the external cooler when the oil is cold.

2.  IIRC when I did my conversion, I found that it took just around a quart to fill the cooler and the hoses.  I ran the oil through with the hoses disconnected at the engine, just to find out.

3.  I did the conversion in 2006-ish?  I already had a 1 quart deeper sump on the engine.   If I check the oil level after cool-down from a run, it sits around 2/3'rds between low and full on the dipstick.   If I run it up to "Full" it tends to blow oil out here and there until it gets down to 2/3'rds and stays there.  

4.  On my set-up, it takes 4.75 American quarts to fill it (Sorry, I don't know your conversion).

Wasn't familiar with CSP conversion kit so went to their German web site to see what it was.  Lots of great info there (see TECHNIC tab).  I have 2 T4 914 engines sitting - both '75's a 1.8 and a 2.0.  I've been thinking either installing as pancake OEM or doing the Joe Cali conversion (have his book and all the T1/T4 shroud bits - just need access to a MIG welder). 

Upright Conversion CSP :: Custom & Speed Parts (CSP) (csp-shop.com)

Nice type 4. Good luck with it. I bet you spent some big bucks getting that baby together. Not for the faint of heart. Make sure you seal the engine compartment tight around the engine if it is going into a Speedster.

@DannyP, thanks so much for your advice. Yes, agree a non-return valve will just add complication and very happy to hear oil level won’t be a concern. I will do some checks on levels whilst it is running all the same (per your suggestion 😊)

@Gordon Nichols, thanks for your thoughts/advice also. I will check the volume of my cooler today (and volume of hoses to be sure how much extra oil needs to be added. Thanks again for you article, it was a huge help and give me confidence to tackle this task.

@WOLFGANG, yes CSP put out some nice products. Their upright conversion kit requires some fine tuning/adjustment along the way but if I can do it anyone can. I have their front disc-brake conversion kit also going on this week also. Wasn’t cheap but came highly recommended.

Thanks @Jimmy V. Yes, I was originally going down the upgraded Type1 engine but steered the Type4 for the extra torque(?) and CC’s with no modification to case. Not the range of products available for the Type4 engines compared to Type1 and definitely more expensive but as many have said on this forum “buy once, cry once”. Loved watching/reading your engine build as it progressed (another stratosphere ). Message received regarding sealing the engine compartment, will do ....and yes, it's going into a 1978 California built IM.

Well it's 8:30am in the land down under, mid-winter, sun is shining and it's a brisk 12ºC (54ºF) so off to replace transaxle mounts and get this engine in!!

Thanks again for everyone's input/advice, it has been gratefully received. I'll keep you updated.

@DannyP posted:

Check the oil when it's running. This is what we do in Formula Vee.

Just curious, how do you check the oil level while the engine is running? Dipstick, oil pressure?

Dipstick. At idle. Pull it out, wipe it with a rag, quick stick and pull. It's accurate.

The cooler is above the oil filter flange and empties out pretty quickly into the sump. As does the oil in the hoses to the oil filter, which is about at single carb level. But when it's running the level is consistent.

I keep it about halfway between the add and full mark. It goes a quart or two above the high mark after it sits. The previous owner has conveniently marked that high level too.

Hey guys, a quick update.

Heavy duty front and rear transaxle mounts are in. The front mount was a mongrel to replace!!

Engine went in yesterday. Rather squeezy but once the carbs and alternator pulley were removed it wriggled into the engine bay OK. Took another half an hour to mate it to the transaxle but finally got it in…woohoo!

Test-fit the carbies for clearance and all good there but it appears the fan housing is just touching the underside of the decklid so I will look into that a little later.

Will be tackling the oil cooler and maybe fuel pump today.

Looking good, @awotton! It's probably something you've already done, and probably no problem, but think about spinning the engine over a few times to make sure the clutch plate assembly doesn't touch the transmission housing.

When I was putting together my engine and new Rancho Pro Street, I had to clearance an area just a bit to keep it from touching and making a funny noise when the engine was running.

Thanks @Michael Pickett. many thanks for the reminder/tip. The previous "interim" engine needed some clearancing so I should be OK but will definitely check that today before progressing any further.

Just for interest, I'm assuming you have had to access the shift coupling in your early IM previously? Did you find a cross-member covering a large portion of the access opening? Mine certainly has. I have the small, but expected tedious, job first thing this morning to return the bolt back in place. It is going to be a test of patience.

Thanks again for your advice, Tony

@awotton posted:

Thanks @Michael Pickett. many thanks for the reminder/tip. The previous "interim" engine needed some clearancing so I should be OK but will definitely check that today before progressing any further.

Just for interest, I'm assuming you have had to access the shift coupling in your early IM previously? Did you find a cross-member covering a large portion of the access opening? Mine certainly has. I have the small, but expected tedious, job first thing this morning to return the bolt back in place. It is going to be a test of patience.

Thanks again for your advice, Tony

Tony, yes, the access to the shift coupling is very small on mine. I'm going to sell it if it develops problems... Good luck!