Newbie found a Speedster on CL

Too much.  You can buy a new one for less or equal.

Thanks Bob,

What do you think it's worth?

Looks to be an IM so it will command a bit more but price still seems a bit high.  Obviously a pan car.  Engine is likely crate VW so it may not need a rebuild, though sitting since 2008 is concerning.  You should take car to a good VW mechanic to give it a good look.

Really?  Where?

Yeah - check the Vintage Speedster website for pricing on a new one.....reasonably comparable.  Besides, it's too cold to go putting around Massachusetts right now (believe me, I'm trying to) so you have the Winter/Spring to look.

 

OK, so it's a 1978 Intermeccanica that is in (from what few pictures are offered) good shape, but that's about it.

 

Looks like a stock, later, 1,600 engine (with a "Porsche decal!) with a stock single carb setup, so nothing fancy there.  The statement that Intermeccnica made 500 cars in 1978 (that's 10 each week, folks) is mis-leading at best; their shop wasn't that big!

 

IMO this car is worth mid-teens, max, given what it needs to be brought back.

 

Keep looking. 

17K

Bill,

 

Interesting number you put on this car.  My thought was 15-17k was what it is probably worth given it's needs and condition.   And 17k was on the high end.

 

I have been reading as much as a I can on this site, does anyone have photos that show what people are referenceing as the odd front fender / tire gap on the VW pan based 356's replicas?   Would this car have that odd look?  I'm trying to understand what folks are referring to.

 

Thanks for all of the replys!  Keep them coming!  So far I am very impressed with this board and its only been 25 mins!  Wow

Andrew

Andrew, i don't have a picture readily available, but the front tire/fender gap refers to the appearance of the front wheels not centered (front-to-back) in the wheel well. Looking at the car from the side, the front wheels appear to be further back (off center) in the wheel well. Hope that makes sense?

 

That IM manufactured in '78 and current condition = $17K tops

 

A NEW Vintage is $24.5K and you get the color combo you choose!

Andrew;

 

Look at the pic of my car and notice the set back on the front wheels, thats' what Jim has described. (The distortion on the rear height is due to the curvature of the turntable at the dealers.)

 

Art

I recently bought a 2001 built Vintage Speedster that was near perfect in the body, paint, interior, Stay-Fast convertible top with side curtains, 1/4 tonneau, full tonneau, and engine with half that many miles and I paid an amount right at about what they're asking.

 

I'm no expert by any means but I wouldn't pay that much for that car.  If I were as talented as most of these guys I'd pay about $15,000 for the car and refurbish it but my skills are not anywhere near what some of these guys have.

Bob, maybe at Walmart when they have a "blue light" special.  

 

I've seen some photographs of genuine speedsters that seem to have a similar problem:

 

John Oates' speedster-

Steve McQueen's-

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...3#362570014230658953

 

 

With the real ones, it could just be a result of the angle at which the photo was taken or maybe the wheels were slightly turned.  Here's a picture of my VS where the front wheel placement looks ok, but I think it's because I took the photo at a bit of an angle to catch both of the front headlights:

 

 

 

 

    Andrew,

   

    That visual lack of symmetry because of unequal fore n' aft spacing of the wheel within the front wheel well is strictly an aesthetic issue that can either be ignored...or can drive you crazy!

    It seems to be prominent on VS's, and is most apparent on light body colors. Thankfully it's less obvious on black speedsters (like mine) when that awkward gap blends into shadow and the body color.

 

    On the profile photos of examples shown Art's beautiful red speedster and Oate's silver (real stuff!) doesn't make me shudder...But I think tagging that black speedster as McQueen's is inaccurate

    McQueen's speedster was white. I've seen several photos of him racing it and the in all the photos, unlike this speedster purported to be his, the front wheels were nicely proportioned within the wheel wells...plus his 356 didn't have factory towel racks...nor those chromed wheels...nor that awkward front fender to wheel spacing!!!!        

Andrew, Like Koda I bought my 2004 Vintage w/ 11k miles in "cherry condition" this past Sept. lots of sound council from this site helped. This is my first time and I have less than basic mech skills (sailboater). Don't rush look and take the imput from here.

I paid way below the price you were quoted.

There's also a story that the first mold was taken from a borrowed Speedster that had been wrecked in front right fender and repaired - but the damage was transferred to the buck used in making cars for years after and never (?) corrected.I keep telling Carl that the staggered front wheel spacing is to showmotion and speed even at rest.

 

That's definitely a first of May vs near Dec price for a Speedster in the NE.

 

Color of Steve's car ..... ?

 

1958-

 

`970 -

 

Well I'll be darn...hummm?

That black speedster must belong to the taller dude in the bell bottoms

What's up with that dog!?... Excuse me Rover!?

 

Imagine being that guy!? You're in what would become an iconic photo of Steve McQueen... and you're the guy who has a dog violating your groin.

 

Sorry, I'm a child... I know... (back to my cave)

That guy did own Steve's Speedster, until Steve bugged him enough to sell it back to him.  The guy made a few changes to the car.  It was white when Steve first owned it, I believe.  I can check, but I'm too lazy right now to look it up in the book.

14-17 is a good range for that car. I know a guy who picked up a CMC in similar shape a little less than year ago. He paid 15,000. I would reach out to the seller and see if he could snap decent photos of the car. I don't think it would be to much to ask if they were in focus.

 

He's going to come back and say "I've seen IM's for 30 and 40k..." - Those are the new IM's with the full tube chassis and many modern upgrades.

This is the kind of situation where you want to buy the best car you can afford. Buy a great example of a used speedster and you'll spend less in the long run. If the best car you can afford is a pile of junk, then you need to save more money.

 

FWIW - Black speedsters are the best, no matter which make they are. 

Ted

Don't know if it was white when he first got it, but it was black at least some of the times he raced it:

 

 

McQueen - 1959 Riverside

 

 

 

James Dean had a white speedster, though.

 

 

I just talked to Steve.  His first car was an MGTC, and his '58 1600 Super Speedster was always black, with optional Rudge alloy knock off wheels (as pictured above).

 

So, I guess he did not have a white Speedster.

 

He probably did not drift it as much as this thread has...

I'm sorry to hear about your passing, Bob, but glad that you're back!

One more of McQueen's speedster and I'll stop:

 

It was a quick trip...and I never had to use my headlights.

 

Bob:  Good to have you back!

 

When we had Bruce Meyers as our guest speaker at Carlisle one year, I had the delight of talking with Bruce and Winnie (his wife) over dinner.  He told me how he originally had a black, '59 356 that he bought from Steve McQueen and used as a daily driver for a few years until McQueen begged him to sell it back, which he did.

 

Excellence Magazine also ran an article on 356's some time back, that purports McQueen buying his '59 with his first check from the show "Wanted - Dead or Alive".  His son, Chad, got both that black '59 356 and the 911 used in the opening sequence of LeMans when Steve died and, while he has since sold the 911, he still has the Speedster (or at least did at the date of the article).

FYI: For me (3) sets of caster shims improves the situation and the handling.

I wonder if Steve McQueen was the only guy who actually raced on those Rudge wheels. I love the look (and totally don't understand why every fake Speedster owner with 8-slot chrome Mangles doesn't "convert" them with pie plates, acorn nuts and spinners) but I hear tell the Rudge wheels are heavier than stock steelies. 

 

Anyway: cool pics.

Please ! fellow Speedster drivers, life is short ,to short to worry about the difference the front wheel is, in not being exactly centered in the front wheel well.  Just drive the car ,and be happy !!!!

Stu,

Some of us are obsessed with owning and driving a replica THAT REPLICATES!!!

 

That's the reason Manny in South Africa went to a considerable expense having his headlights lowered two inches to REPLICATE their position per the original Stuttgart inspiration...It's the reason big dollars are spent on just the 'correct' steering wheel horn button,... and lusting after OEM 'looking' factory options.

 

If 356A speedsters rolled off the Stuttgart production line with that flawed fender well spacing then I'd be very pleased that VS replicated it for me!

OP, $15K max value on a good day.  Sitting still sucks for cars.  Get a new VS, and a slightly pre-loved one.

To Carl Berry ! Sorry about how I feel ,and I do get obsessed myself sometimes ,but ,not over my Speedster! I just drive and enjoy it !

Thanks  I am thinking $15k would be a fair offer as well.  They are asking $23k I would hate to offer $13k and have them feel I am not serious, So it sounds like a firm one time offer of $15k it will be.   Stay tuned and thanks for all of the replies.

I think with all of these "Car Flipping" shows on television it has everyone mindful of the whole negotiation process as well as a bit over confident about what their cars are worth.  The seller starts high, the buyer starts low, and they eventually find middle ground which is an amount that the seller really expects.

 

Tell him up front you're not interested in a drawn out negotiation.  Tell him you've done more than enough research and gotten advice from more than one expert (the SOC membership ) and that you believe the car is worth $15K and that's all you're offering. He'll either take it or not.  If he doesn't, you'll have one negotiation for a Speedster under you're belt and a whole lot more knowledge on the cars.

 

Then when you find one you really like you'll be better prepared.  Good luck.

Pretty much spot on advice from the collective here. I think 15 is a solid offer.  If he doesn't sell it soon, it will only get more difficult to sell as winter set's in.

 

When I bought mine, a CMC, the seller was asking 15. It was for sale for quite a while before we finally hooked up to check it out/make a deal. I offered 13 and honestly thought he'd say 14. He about knocked the wind out of me when he said "No" and that "He thought he'd get 17 if he waited a month more." Wait... what?... He thought he'd get MORE than his asking price? I had to really fight back the urge to tell him to get bent. I calmly asked if he'd take 15 then? He said, no... he was going to keep it for sale and try to get 17 in the spring. I thanked him for his time and left him my address and number. I asked him to call me back if he wanted to reconsider his full asking price. I'd pay 15, but no way would I pay 17.   Jim was a saint and he kept reminding me to NOT cave in and to NOT call him back. 

You can ask Musbjim, that was the longest 36 to 48 hours of my life. I wasn't sure if he'd come back with  the original asking price. He contacted me a day or so later but he didn't say what he wanted.  Just to drive my point home, I didn't call him back for another day later. We ended up closing the deal at 15k. I think I paid a bit more because I purchased it *just* before the spring. I'm not sure if this will work out the same way for you, but I can tell you that your timing is right. 

 

From what I can tell, the car is in about the same shape as mine when I first picked it up. Yours might command a slightly higher price because of the IM heritage, but I'm not sure there is a steadfast premium value for original IM cars. You'd have to have some unique tie to the factory to make it a tangible value.  Best I can tell it's mostly a cool factor. It's not like they quit making replica speedsters or that the early cars had some special character that others do not. Plus, a LOT can happen to a fiberglass car in 35+ years. If he was the original owner and has the complete history on the car then I can see some value add. Truth is, he bought it and realized it wasn't all he thought it would be, so it sat. My bet is that the seller doesn't know a lot about the car. The fact that he lists '(Karosseerie Reutter Stuttgart)' as something important about the car tells me the seller is wildly optimistic on the price. He may be mildly informed, but at this point he's fishing for impulsive buyer.  He claims no rust, but get down on your hands and knees and really look at the pan. See if you can move the floor mats behind the seats and look really closely. Anyway... I paddle on.

 

He won't get 23k from an informed buyer.  I'm glad to see that you are being an informed buyer. 

 

Best of luck,
Ted

Ad is suspect with "only 500 made by IM that year" - suspect 50 would be more accurate.  So go look at it and make your B.R.O. per his ad.  Personally, I hate it when I advertise something at a reasonable price ($23k isn't reasonable if it needs $3k of refurb) and I get email offers of 2/3-1/2 asking price without even looking at item.  Craigslist is notorious for vultures doing that - I merely delete their replies.  More of a pain when they show up - waste an hour of my time and then make low ball offer.

This is an interesting case. I live in Mass. too and with winter coming and all this is not the time to to be high on price if you really want to sell.  I looked at a Speedster in Conn. early last Spring and the guy wanted 19k but it was above my limit.  I thanked him for his time and said I was sorry but I didn't think I could make him an offer near his asking price and didn't want to offend him.  Just kind of left it dangling there for a minute..  He did ask, I did say, and he seemed willing to meet in the middle. You never know. Set your top price and don't offend.  I'd say most people really don't know what these things are worth and a solid offer, though lower, may become a reality when the phone doesn't ring off the hook for the car. I like to leave the offer on the table for future thought until I find something else and walk away.

Good luck.