Newbie Question

Hey everyone. I have a few questions for you. I am new to this whole thing, and I've already run several searches and still have some questions. I am 18, I go to UCSD in San Diego and looking for a daily driver that will last a long time, so reliable is a must. I actually hadn't ever considered a speedster until my father told me that he wanted to get me one and if I was ok with it, and now that I've been researching about it I love them. My first issue is, I have about 30k to spend on a speedster, and I have narrowed it down to basically the JPS and Beck. I really like the flared body that JPS puts out for the wider tires and the modern look, along with the ability to register it easier. I am looking for about 200hp in as reliable an engine as possible, either type I or IV, whichever is bet. This car will be putting about 10k miles per year, and I plan on having it for a long time. I know I'm repetitive, sorry about that, don't flame me please! I just have so many questions I want to ask. What is the available insurance (unlimited miles), financing (my dad's going to be on the loan), and also the best maker for reliability of a performance vehicle? Thanks everyone for your help. If I'm vague let me know and I will specify. I basically just want to know all the finer details of ownership and also the reliability issue with a high performance engine. Thanks.

All things being equal, which they seldom are, reliability is inversely proportional to performance potential. To get the kind of horsepower you are looking for, you need a quality engine build using high quality parts, and neither one comes cheap. According to their website, JPS offers higher performance engines in their advertised packages, but you will notice that the warranty periods are shorter. This should tell you something. Do you really think you need this much power? You should also figure on investing more in the chassis and suspension to be able to handle a big engine. You also need to carefully assess you driving skills and your mechanical abilities, if you are planning to maintain the car yourself.

Check out insurance premiums with your agent before you go too far. Also carefully research the registration process with your DMV and/or owners of like vehicles in your state. The more homework you do, the better your decision will be.

Many of the owners on this website have been around for a while and some, like myself, have owned more than one Speedster-mobile. As a group we are pretty friendly, don't usually flame and are open to have are brains picked on a wide variety of topics. Spend a little time going through our archives and you will find the answers to many of your questions.
Good luck
John H.

Thanks for the information. I meant by the more horsepower, also having the transmission, gears, suspension, brakes, and tires involved in that. Also I was looking into potential safety equipment such as a partial roll cage. My dad's friend has built several spyders and he has a company in Riverside that will custom make them for your application. In his spyder he has bars running parrallel to the length of the car from a roll bar attached to his tube frame at three different points (along the doors and through the middle). That thing is a beast. I believe it has a either 2.6 or 3.2 Porsche built Porsche engine with a flat ceramic turbocharger. I might be wrong about the specifications on the turbo but I know he has one. It supposedly puts down about 400hp, but this is just what I've been told. I also have a mechanic already. We already have two VW's in my family and my mom has had a VW since the early 80's and she's been trusting her mechanic since then. I'm not just looking for horsepower I'm looking for the whole package of performance, and if I have to sacrifice horsepower to get in the price range then that is better then sacrificing the breaks, suspension, and transmission I will need. I'm not looking for a full on race car, just something that runs at about a Corvette speed possibly. So I was thinking around 180-210 hp, which from reading from this site seems pretty reasonable and reliable. I do need to check with the insurance company and such, right now I have AAA, anyone know of any collector company's that allow for unlimited miles and daily driver? I've been hearing about I think Grundy and Hagerty, but I'm not sure exactly. Thanks for the info guys.

18 years old, going to university and can afford a $30,000 car....WOW!
Ron

Jake,

Re the insurance, I doubt if you'll find either Hagerty or Grundy responsive since they don't insure daily drivers and want only about 2500 miles per year. Your age might be a big problem with them also. You'll have to do some searching for insurance I think, maybe you can put the car in your Dads name and have him carry the insurance. Good Luck.

Bruce

Ron, ya I know, I'm lucky. Here in San Diego its not that crazy to see at all, but I do have to pay for part of it. Insurance with my car now is about 4k per year with my truck. Its under my name as the primary driver, that is why its so much. My father doesn't believe in lying to insurance companies, just in case something does really happen my safety and the safety of others financially and with medical bills will be taken car of. Its his logic. I was going to get a 350Z but I've always wanted a classic car, and I guess my dad understands my need to be unique. That is why he suggested this. It wasn't my first choice by any means but now that I know more about it, I love them. Does anybody here know anything about Beck and JPS in terms of easily registering them as well being able to handle the high performance. Does the flared with wider tires really matter all that much? Also anybody have their speedster registered under AAA as their daily driver? Or anywhere else? Thanks a lot everyone for your help.

What company in SoCal makes a speedster with "a tubular frame, wide body and a radical outlaw style?" I'll take a look at state farm, thanks a lot. I don't want to be dumb about this, I want to do the research and get things done right and safe. I love the 550 spyders even more than the speedsters, but the practicality of it is an issue. Even though there is a Beck dealership and Thunder Ranch is basically just down the street... I don't know I guess this time in my life would be the best to have a spyder being in college, San Diego, having no wife, kids, or any real need for passengers. I am though concerned for the safety of one. My dad is the real determining factor too of the whole thing, and I know he loves the spyder and would love for me to have one, but he doesn't want me to end up like James Dean! Thanks for the info everyone. I'll also look into Thunder Ranch, I hear they are making speedsters now, and maybe I'll just have to check out the spyder. I'm just gonna have to do some more research on everything. Thanks guys.

Jake,

Nice to see someone younger have the interest in a speedster like you do,

Please take some time to first look into insurance availability. it is nearly impossible for anyone under 25 to obtain coverage for a specialty vehicle.
There is no insurance company that I am aware of that will write a car like this as a primary use vehicle.

Alan M.

Jake,
Have you thought about keeping your truck for school and picking up a used speedster for weekend use? As much fun as these cars are I feel that they are more 'special' for use as a second car. If your dead set on a daily driver you might want to look more seriously at an Intermeccanica. It has a tubular frame and I believe Henry can build a mild flared version.
I own a JPS and I love it, but it seems to me that you want a modern rice rocket with a nostalgic look. I don't know how feasible that is unless you build it yourself or you have a lot of money.
If you have it as a second car you could share it with your dad and he could insure it.
Terry

Terry I love the comment on the rice rocket with the nostaglic look. I don't understand though why these cars cannot be daily drivers in San Diego. It seems to be the perfect climate for it. I feel that if the car is built right with a new engine and parts it should be just as reliable as any car if treated with respect and the proper care. Horsepower is not that important, I just want a fast car that can back up the looks. As I believe I said before I'm looking for something about 180hp and above, but reliability is more important, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that much of it. I believe I have a hold on the concerns of this car, but I also think its do-able...At least I hope so! I can't choose the option of having one as a weekend car, its just not a viable choice. I need to call insurance companies on monday to check up on options and what I have available. I don't want to sound like an idiot, oh I want this I want that, but I have about 30k to spend and I feel for that much it is feasible to get a reliable 180hp car with updated breaks, suspension, and transmission. I guess I'll just have to call John at JPS, I've been corresponding over email with him and he seems confident as well as Richard at sdspeedsters (Beck). I just need to figure out reasonable options with the car as well as insurance possibilities. Hopefully if it works out you might have a new youngest member in your ranks...

Jake,

Why are you so stuck on 180hp? These cars don't weight much at all and like others have said, more HP means less reliable. Also, if you are not going to lie to the insurance company, when you tell them that this car has 180+HP, they really are going to have a problem with it. If it has a 1600 doing 40hp it's basically a VW Bug and I bet anyone would insure it. Just something to think about.

Beck and JPS are different animals in that JPS uses a VW pan and these cars are often registered as VW and year of manufacture. Beck Speedsters are new construction tubular chassis and would probably be registered as current year; this is the case with my Cabriolet. For insurance, since you seem to be sensitive to some of the most important issues related to risk management, consider a regular insurance company. I use State Farm, as do some others on the site, and my rates are fairly reasonable. I'm not 18, however. If I were building a hot rod Speedster as you are anticipating doing, I would definitely build a car with a tubular frame, wide body and a radical outlaw style. Then of course there are 550 Spyders and the 718 RSK from Thunder Ranch, but that's another story.
my 2 kroner
John H.

" Daily Driver" means different things to different entities.
As mentioned before, insurance companies view these speedsters as specialty cars and as such, don't want to expose themselves to any more risk than neccessary. That can translate to poor performance (there's that word in a different use) in an accident...It can mean higher visibility, easily or perhaps more readily stolen. You have to remember insurance companies sell you on the need for insurance and then hedge their bets by making insurance hard to get and comply with, and statistically very relatively expensive for younger drivers, those they feel are more prone to get in accidents and USE their insurance!

Daily drivers as a type of car may mean an urban city 'taxi' to some, a long-haul freeway commuter to others. Porsche built the speedster to be an eco-class sports car and in that tradition speedsters don't have a lot of amenities, ie A/C (although it can be installed and then you get into a power-robbing set of ratios IMHO) cushy seats; you will try and get a girl to ride with you (oops, PC police alert, maybe your door swings the other way, sorry) and she may not be as enamored with a jarring ride on thin-foan seats...same,same when you fire up the stereo, sound systems are a challenge as well.

Daily drivers are thought to be reliable no matter the roadways you travel. The more you gussy-up a little V-dub motor, the more you let the reliability horses out of the barn...creating avenues for all sorts of new experiences, like installing oil-coolers and more gauges than a space shuttle, etc, etc, etc. High horsepower and light cars make for an interesting driving experience. Add to that big vehicles that can't see you and others who just plain want to bully their way thropugh traffic and your 'daily driving' experience could be short lived. Factor in inclement weather and your hazard quotient scoots up the charts...

So, having said all that, do read through the archives and look up some of the posts about Horsepower and leaky cars and tall drivers and all the whining that has come before you, then grab your wallet and scoot down and talk to John Steele, the charlatan of fibreglas, he'll do some great magic with everything you feel you need, stirred together in his special way and the result will be something you will cherish for a long, long time, and that you will likely drive, maybe not every day, but as your mood swings!

Jake, you really should have a look at Intermeccanica, for a few reasons.
-Only manufacturer to use a full tube frame. Increased rigidity and for mounting the rear suspension.
-IRS rear suspension, for better handling.
-Available rack and pinion steering to go with all that horsepower.
There is nothing wrong with Beck or JPS, but if you want a high performance, good handling, reliabe car, you can't beat Intermeccanica.
Ron

Ron, isn't it all the way in Vancouver though? Seems a little difficult being all the way in Canada along with still being more expensive than the others. That is just what I've been hearing. How does that work with the shipping it across borders like that, any special regulations of cars coming into US from Canada?

You will be unhappy with anything other then a Intermeccanica or Specialty Autoworks car. Real tube frame cars. The Specialty car has a modern subaru engine and could be done for 35 with a 165hp fuel injected engine which is much better then any VW engine. Intermeccanica is considered by most people to be the very best build quality and they use CBperformance for engines...nice realiability. As for how close they are to you I would be more worried about how helpful they are........someone close by doesn't insure good service. My experience with Intermeccanica has been stellar.

Jake ,

In addition to your inquiries here, do your own research and talk to the various vendors....I don't feel that "you will be less than happy" unless you go with a particular vendor.
The most popular three or four all have very good customer satisfaction,

Contact the "local US vendors here under "Makers" an draw your own opinion(s) as it's your dollars.

Alan M.

I'm not sure I would go that far Steve. Now, once you have owned an IM, I think that would be true...

Jake,
A speedster will work as a daily driver in San Diego. And a pan based car can handle very well. The advantage of having one built by John at JPS is that he will have the car registered in your name when you contract a build with him. He is very easy to work with and is receptive to your input.
Having said that, your speedster will still have 40 year old technology at current prices.
I wanted the same thing you want but came to the realization that there are limits. However, putting my car through a tight corner at 50mph is even more of a thrill than putting a rice rocket through the same corner at 70mph.
Why not have John build the car and have your family friend build the engine, then have your folks loan you the money after taking out an equity line. Insure the car as daily driver with your dad on title and you as the primary user of the car?
But make sure you drive and compare the different brands and accept that you are buying a vintage car.
Terry

Thunder Ranch Speedsters have a full tube frames, no pans at the Ranch according to Tom McBurnie.

I could be wrong, but I believe Thunder Ranch speedsters have half tube frames, when compared to Intermeccanicas. Not that a half tube frame is a bad thing...

Thunder Ranch is a full tube type chassis with the rear suspension of the Type 1 welded onto it....they supply fiberglass pans for the floors, I woud fabricate steel floors to replace them. The chassis is nicely done by Tom McBurnie

I don't suggest listing your father as a primary driver as this is insurance fraud and they will certainly decline payment any claim

Alan, I think that is the difference. The Thunder Ranch cars' tube frame ends at the suspension, where the IM's tube frame wraps around the entire car - bumper to bumper. If Thunder Ranch calls that a 'full tube frame', then I guess the IMs is an extended full frame? In addition, does Thunder Ranch use swing arm or IRS suspension? I think it is swing arm.

Full frame, half frame, quarter frame, eighth frame,Who gives a Sh**.

Ron,

You are correct the Thunder Ranch chassis is a partial tube chassis with a rear Type 1 suspension grafted to it . It is an IRS set up

I'm with Joel - I haven't sen ANYONE on this forum racing their Speedster, either road course or Autocrossing (although there may be a few out there), so what difference does it make? Unless you have one hell of a moosey type 4 back there (Paul Harford's car comes to mind) torquing the hell out of the pan/frame (and everything else attached to it), pan-based, partial tube frame or full tube frame are all gonna ride and feel about the same to most of us in "normal" driving. Taking one out on a track is a whole different moose, but it's a whole different moose for ANY car being prepared for the track. That'a why there's such a large aftermarket in performance suspension parts out there for all of those cars which are popular in the racing circles - they all have to be beefed up to take the rigors of racing, anyway.

OK, fair enough. Most of the time the frame, pan, or whatever doesn't matter. However, most of us do drive our cars hard from time to time, and if you plan to drive your car hard more often than average, the frame and suspension will be an issue for you, and then you will want to have accurate information when it comes time to purchase your dream car.

Just for the record, I drive my car very hard, have a 2.3 liter 200hp engine, and will be autocrossing this weekend...

I meant that with his age you know its going to get driven hard and as a daily driver I think the roll up windows are way too handy. Of course in San Diego how much rain are you going to see? I see everyones point on this issue........WOW that doesn't happen often.

Ron: Wish I were closer, as I would REALLY like to see that car autocrossed and how it performs against the competition.

Back in the early 70's, I autocrossed a season with a Deserter Dune Buggy, but it had a 140 hp corvair Monza engine/transaxle (mid-ship) with a single Holley 4-barrel and stock Monza cam. It did, in fact, have a box tube frame, with 8 inch wide front rims and 11 inch wide rears and sat 2 1/2 inches off the ground. It also had a selective-rear-wheel driving brake and handled like crazy. I could leap off the line in first, pull second and never have to shift after that. After it kept running away with fastest times of the day, the new England SCCA quickly put it into it's own category of "Modified Kit Car" as the only car in that category, so it wasn't as much fun racing after that.

Anyway, good luck this coming weekend, and let us know how well you do!

gn

It sounds like fun Gord. The real guy to watch will be Bruce Gordon. He has basically built his car for autocross with special tires, extreme lowering, and he just installed fuel injection on his 2275. Plus he has autocrossed before. We'll take lots of pictures and video clips.