Newbie with a 2110

You are so going to love the upgraded 2110!

 

Exhaust.

 

Currently taking with Vintage Speed about the 155-203-052SF.

 

I read comments that it will not clear the CMC rear valance. I've read that some cut moons, other have asked for modifications made to the exhaust. 

 

So I should ask to lower the tail pipes? And make them longer?

You have a screen on the 7 inch hole in the firewall, I assume?

Yep.

Scott, you're going to love that engine.  I had a 2110 in my IM a while back and loved it.  I'm not sure why I upgraded to a 2276....well, I know why...power corrupts and the need for more horsepower corrupts even more.

 

I'll try to answer a few of your questions.  I'm sure others will chyme in too.

 

1.  Valve clearance settings depends on what type of push rods you're using (aluminum or steel).

 

2&3.  A stock doghouse shroud is all you really need, but the after market ones you buy from internet sellers don't come with flaps or a thermostat.  When I purchased a new aftermarket shroud for my IM I bought my flaps/thermostat from here:  http://www.awesomepowdercoat.c...hermostat_flaps.html

I think they also sell shrouds.

 

4.  There are two locations most people mount their oil coolers-above the transmission and in the rear wheel wheel.  Both work fine.  Definitely buy a cooler/fan combo. 

 

5.  Venting your valve covers is a very good idea.  If you have non-vented valve covers you can drill them yourself and add the needed hardware.  I noticed your engine has Pauter rockers.  Mine does too.  They're great.

 

6.  Do NOT use a direct bolt on for your oil filter.  Your engine case should be drilled for full flow, with an externally mounted filter.

 

7.  My fuel lines are mounted to the shroud, which is what I think most of us have done.  With my 2110 I had a fuel regulator mounted to the firewall, with SS lines running to each carb.  It was a very clean install.

 

 

 

8.  Most mount it to the shroud.  The more you mount to the firewall the more you have to take off when you drop the engine.  I have a crank fired ignition, but I'm still mounting my 4 coils to the shroud, but it's really up to you.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

In order:

 

1) You said you've got cromoly pushrods, so you'll set them for "loose zero" cold. Loose-zero means you can spin the pushrod, but you'll have no play.

 

2) I don't run anything besides a Type 4 cooler. I've got a Type 1 DTM in the twin-plug engine, and a modified Scat 36 HP dog-house shroud in the 2110. Both are set up for the bigger cooler (the Scat shroud is modified). My theory is that when it comes too cooling, having the capibility to cool under all circumstances is a good thing. The easy way to get this done is to buy stuff already done at awesomepowdercoat.com. Clark will set you right up.

 

3) If you want flaps and a thermostat, you'll need lower tin as well (sleds, industrial close-offs if you aren't running heater boxes). Some exhausts are not compatible with lower tins, so you'll want to have made up your mind on exhaust before you get bent up about the flaps and thermostat.

 

4) I'd absolutely use a fan with an external cooler. The ultimate set-up is a Setrab cooler mounted up front, but I've got a 96 plate EMPI with a fan mounted in the driver's side wheel-well. It's perfectly adequate, and I ran at 10:1 with my 2332.

 

5) Everything depends on the build as far as what you'll need for a breather. I puked oil like there was no tomorrow with a 1776 and an external breather, etc. My 2332 was vented everywhere- valve-covers, breather tower, fuel-pump block-offs, etc. I fabricated a 2 gallon breather box, and vented it to a Bernoulli tube and Moroso check-valve in the exhaust... and it still threw oil. The 2110 is so tight, I'm not even venting the valve-covers, and am just venting into the box at the breather tower. I'd try it with just the breather, and maybe some nice vents running from the valve-covers to a high-mounted EMPI box. If you need more, you'll know soon enough. The total-seal rings should help with this (less blow-by).

 

6) I'd keep it on the chassis. You're remote cooler is out there anyhow. I'd make sure you are running an oil thermostat for the remote cooler. I hate the EMPI part, I really like the Mocal "sandwich" thermostat that mounts between the oil filter base and the oil filter. It's worth the money it costs. Do a Google search for it.

 

7) Run them to each carb. Use a nice brass tee and some clamps. Keep the lines out of the engine compartment, unless they need to be there.

 

8) Mount it wherever it's easiest and looks best.

 

You asked another place about the exhaust. Resist the urge to buy the VintageSpeed exhaust. It isn't a true 4 into 1 header, and you'll give up a LOT of the goodness of a bigger engine with it. I'd recommend an A1 sidewinder in 1-5/8" or 1-1/2" if you want more low end punch. Tiger makes two models of sidewinder-- one for use with heater boxes, one not. If you get the one for heater boxes, and just get flanged J-pipes, you can run normal industrial close-offs and lower tin, and get a good thermostat and use the flaps if you want. It's more money, but you only cry once, rather than end up with something that precludes running what you really want.

 

Good luck. Measure twice, cut once.

 

Forewarned is forearmed.

OMG... Theron archive this plez!!

 

A wise man once told me when I was in awe of some dribble.  " He's forgotten more than you know" !!

 

Stan, thank you for your approach , delivery and message!

Totally agree.  This post belongs in the "Knowledge" section.

 

Good on ya, Stan!

Ron. 

 

Thanks for the info on the shrouds. I got some pricing back from Awesome Powder Coat. Going with the 36hp Scat shroud mod/type-4 cooler, flaps and thermo. Stuff is a little pricey, but do it once right.

 

I'll look at hiding the lines instead at the firewall. Have SS lines and brass tee ready to go.

 

I'm ordering some other tin powder coated from them as well, so do I need the firewall shroud tin?

 

I already have the external oil cooler with a thermo temp, so I'll just get a fan for it then. Once the engine is I'll look at mounting it to tranny area—I think there is a gap there from the firewall to the back seat.

 

I think I used the wrong term "bolt on" with the oil filter. I already have a full-flow drilled and oil pump (Schadeck 26mm Aluminum Full-Flow Oil Pump
Billet Full-Flow Oil Pump Cover), lines to remote filter. I was thinking about this

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/O...pump-043-115-115.htm

And getting rid of the current oil pump /lines set-up I have.

 

 

Stan. Thanks for the valve info. I may try the oil color at the chassis or above the tranny. I would really like to get the A-1 eventually, but pushing it with the wife telling her another $1,500 for everything else (after the engine) and that means no A-1. Things are adding up quickly after I got the engine. So the best under $600 (delivered) exhaust I was looking at was the vintage 1 1/2. 

 

I only have a minute, Scott, so here goes-stay with the full flow oil pump cover, oil lines, filter bracket and plumbing it back into the case. Those filter pump combos have small passages and you'll notice they use 30mm gears (which just create more heat) to make up for the pressure loss. They also can shear the drive tang off above 6,000rpm; the oil can't flow through the cover and back fast enough. And what Stan said about the exhaust, even if you have to wait a little bit to afford it. One thing that's handy in this hobby is to have a little "mad money" put away (that the wife doesn't know about) for "extra" expenditures...

 

And remember, you didn't hear that from me... Al

As Stan mentioned, an A1 Sidewinder is probably the best way to go.  I have a new A1 (1 5/8") on my 2276.  It's a tossup between 1 1/2 and 1 5/8.  I had an almost identical engine in my IM (82x90=2110), with a 1 5/8" and it ran great, with plenty of low end torque.

Stan--coment on the the 30 degrees timing advance Scott asked about.

 

 My 2150cc Type IV is happiest at 29 degrees advanced at 3,000-3,500.  It started out at 32 but I was having some pinging from time to time.  29 seemed kliks  alarge change but uit's the number that gives the best zip with no pinging---just the Dellorto chirp.

 

Funny about timing---going from 32 to 29 doesn't seem like much of  adifference but it made a world of difference---plus better idle and MPG.

Ok. I'm still ordering a few things, so I have some time before I install the engine.

I'll keep the full-flow system I have and mount the filter to the chassis. External oil cooler will locate in the tranny area.

 

My "mad money" was spent on the engine and carbs, so everything else is a stretch. The A-1 you guys are suggesting would be about $1,500 since I would also need some custom piping for a dual outlet set-up I would want, hinge release for valve access, etc. I'll have to save for that for a future upgrade, but I appreciate knowing what exhaust will run the best.

Hey Jack, is the the timing the same for a Type I 2110? Thats what I have.

Scott--I just don't know for sure but do believe that timing starts with a ballpark number but  has to be set for each individual engine and not some certain number for every engine. At least that has been my experience.

 

The "book" says 32 degrees advanced for my engine but at that amount of advance my engine pings and knocks at that setting.  At 29 degrees it is perfect.

 

I hope Stan will chime in here about timing.

 

Most folks swear by them. I think it was Gene Berg or someone of that caliber was quoted as saying that the thermostat and flaps will add 10K miles to the life of your engine. They do several things, only one of which is allow the motor to reach 'running' temperatures quicker. 

 

I've been kicking around the idea of getting and installing a set on my shroud.

 

Just my dos rupees.

Ted

Scott-

 

Exhaust on a speedster is rough. Nobody is every 100% satisfied, but it makes a huge difference in how the car sounds and performs.

 

I've built no less that 4 exhausts for my car. I started with a 1-5/8" sidewinder with flanged J-Pipes and the stock turn-down muffler, back in '05. It didn't fit the IM because of how Henry moves the engine forward. My muffler hit my rear brake caliper. I know other guys have had the same problem. I had a muffler shop bend up an exhaust. After I looked at what my $500 bought, I decided I'd weld up my own going forward. As I said, I've made a few. Most have been really, really complicated affairs with electric muffler bypass valves, etc. (no, I'm not kidding). A guy can get really, really carried away with an exhaust.

 

The A1 set-up shouldn't cost $1400. The header is $300, the dual P-shooter muffler is $300, and the J-pipes should be less than $100. If you get a sidewinder with slip-in J-pipes, the entire header (J-pipes included) is less than $300. The smart money might be to buy the header and J-pipes, and have a local shop make up the rest. Alternately, you could do it your self. Summit Racing has a really, really nice selection of mufflers and mandrel bent tubes.

 

With my 2110, I have a 1-1/2 sidewinder with the slip-in J-pipes and I'm running flaps and a thermostat with the set-up. Anything is possible, but doing it this way took a LOT of modification, and I have to run a Mexican thermostat (which fails closed, rather than open for the better German part) to make it work. Just getting the slightly costlier header to start with would have made everything a lot easier and less expensive in the long run.

 

As far as the flaps and thermostat: I wouldn't do flaps if I didn't do a thermostat. On the other hand, I've run 20K mi on my speedster with a DTM, which has no thermostat, flaps, or lower tin... and which cools just fine. The value of a thermostat and flaps is primarily for cool weather driving, and I find that about 1/100 of the miles I log on my car are in weather under 50*. There is a lot of dispute about this. Your opinion and mileage may vary. 

 

There's a lot of ways to go here. I know all of us operate within some kind of budget. I'd advocate buying the best parts possible the first time, even if it means waiting on the entire install until you can get the parts you want. Get the best parts you can. A $700 exhaust that doesn't work (but fits the budget) is just going to be a part that is too nice to throw away, not nice enough to sell, and not what you really wanted to start with.

 

I've got a LOT of "almost" parts sitting around-- all of them represent a compromise that I made, and then remade. Buying parts twice isn't ever less expensive.

Berg claimed that a VW engine would wear 12% faster without the flaps and thermostat in southern California. So if you expect 100,000 miles you'll only get 88,000. Here on the wet coast of Canada an engine won't reach operating temp for 4? 5? months at a time (you could tell by the off-white mung that formed on and around the inside of the oil filler cap) without the thermostat/flaps and those engines used to last only 40- 50,000 miles.

 

Think of it this way; would you pull the thermostat out of your watercooled car?

 

Start with 30-32 degrees total advance and see how it runs. You can experiment a couple degrees (couple means 2 or 3 tops!) and if it runs lousier go back.

Yeah, some cars will only tolerate 28 degrees, depends on the engine configuration and the gas available in your area.

Looking at a 1 5/8 exhaust system. I'm going to use my stock heater boxes off my 1600. Do you I really need larger heater boxes? Or can I run smaller ones for now?

Using the stock, 1,600cc heater boxes will be like having a choke engaged on your engine all the time.

 

Stock boxes have something like 1-1/8" exhaust tubes.  If You use stock boxes on cylinders 1&3 and something larger (like 1-5/8") on 2&4 it'll never run smoothly

 

Depending on what that 2,110 has for heads and valves, if I has big valves it should expect to see at least 1-3/8" exhaust tubes and preferably 1-5/8", just to let it flow properly.

 

if you run a stock, 1-1/8" system on it you'll lose probably 40% of your potential power output.

Figures. I have 044 Super Mag heads.

You guys weren't kidding about the madness. And I thought air-cooled VW's were cheaper then other builds. Oh well, can I run J-pipes in lieu of heater boxes for now? I don't ever plan on running much over the winter months, and most of my budget went toward the engine, new doghouse, engine bits and choosing an exhaust system? I think I saw some 1 5/8" j-pipes for under $150.

Yup, go with the 1-5/8" J-Pipes.

 

That's what I'm running on my 2,110 (also with 044 heads), too, and it's a nice match.

Ok. Thanks Gordon. So all I need to do is cap the doghouse w/heat and remove the heater boxes, replace with j-pipes right?

You don't need no stinkin' heat.  Snow mobile suits work.

 

I left mine off too, I think they weigh about 20 lbs. and I very rarely put the top up.

Gordon,

Thought about doing this with my project. - What if one took the 1 5/8" J pipes and cut apart the heater boxes I have on hand and just removed the smaller J pipes inside and mig welded the larger pipes inside? I think it would be doable and have most everything on hand. Anybody done that yet?

The 'pipe' inside a stock heater box is not round.  It's a square piece of aluminum, which works great as a heat sink.

Converting a stock heater box to 1 5/8" tubing is not an easy task.  I had a fabricator do mine almost 10 years ago (before anyone make them for retail sales) and afterwards he said he would never to another.

My big heater boxes don't warm the interior as well has stocks unit would, but it does keep the cabin comfortable when the top is up and the windows are closed.

 

 

I have the large heater boxes.  Carey routed my heat directly to the rear bulkheads next to the seats on my request after a couple of seasons.  What a difference! No losses going forward.  You sacrifice defrost, but Natalie heats up faster than my DD's now.

That's a neat trick, Tom. Any photos so others may learn ?   

So who is running heat with these larger engines (2110) and up? If so, and besides Ron's custom boxes, what size heater boxes are you running?

A lot of us with bigger engines don't have heat.  Some people run larger tube heater boxes.  There are two types of those: Type A is running a cast aluminum heat sink inside of the heater box, and the heat sink is cast around a larger diameter J-pipe.  Those put out gobs of heat, are quite expensive and somewhat rare.

 

I currently have about 16 years on my car with a 2,110 and no heat but it has rarely been an issue (but then, for ten years I lived in the South!)

 

The "el Cheapo" Type B versions are just a larger J-pipe inside of the heater box with no cast-on heat sink.  Those put out very little heat, but are cheap and popular.

 

A third alternative is to run a refurbished VW gasoline heater.  They put out way more than gobs of heat but have to be maintained meticulously so they don't blow up or something, and they are ALL custom installed.

 

It looks like currently Danny P. Has the Cadillac of gas heater installations - a Refurbished BN-2 with selectable fuel delivery rates and a digital thermostat.

Ok. I'm ordering a new doghouse w/type-4 cooler, flaps, thermo, deciding on one with heat or not. My current 1600 has heat, but I never used it. I don't plan on driving at all in the winter months. Live in the NVA area, and want to make sure this 2110 I'm installing properly breaths. I'm going the j-pipe option for the 1 5/8 (from what you and others advised) and just wondering if I'll ever run heat with this engine, who does, etc.

Don't bother with a shroud with heat; that's what gloves, long underwear and hot pockets are for! If you really do need heat, go the seat warmer route. As Gordon said, the big tube heater boxes don't do a lot; not enough heat sink to absorb and radiate any substantial amount of heat, so don't worry about it. I've heard of guys taking apart the big tube boxes and wrapping the tubes with coarse steel wool or welding metal onto the tubes to get more heat transfer, but never heard how it worked.

 

If the rear tin that sits over the exhaust has holes in it for heater tubes they'll have to be plugged, as they will let enough pre-warmed air into the engine compartment in warmer weather to run hot. Of course, if you drive the thing in cooler weather and are having problems getting the engine up to operating temps, leave that rear breast plate off.

 

Something about breathers- Someone once told me that if you need a breather, to plumb it with larger than the 3/8" tubing the little boxes come with. Larger tubing will add more volume to the system, and slow down  the air travelling in the tubes, as this will help the oil mist to fall out of suspension faster. And the typical small breathers they sell in the kits aren't large enough; I've read that you need something with 1/4 to 1/3 the volume of the displacement of the engine in a street engine.

Ok, thanks Al. I'll go the none heat route.

Now finding out that lengthened tins, other then the doghouse, will need to be ordered to fit my case. It's a super case and is two inches wider the stock. do others need custom tin for your larger engines?

Al:  I found that same effect with my CB breather box - the air output tubes to the carbs weren't large enough until I increased them to 5/8" ID.   THAT seemed to bring everything into balance.

 

The oil drain back to the case is OK at 1/4" ID, simply because it doesn't make that much oil mist to drain back at any one time.

Scott- An 82mm stroke, stock rod length and B piston engine should be close to stock width so regular cylinder covers should fit just fine; you can push them in a little bit if needed. You may end up shortening the cylinders or cutting the deck on the case to get your deck height (distance from the top of the piston to the top of the cylinder at Top Dead Center). Ideal deck height is .040- .060", with the combustion chamber volume in the head adjusted to give your intended compression ratio. People say that much more deck and the engine will tend to be a little lazy, carbon up the combustion chambers more than normal, be a little harder to tune, even run a little hot and ping unnecessarily.

 

 With your raised deck case, if anything you may have to trim the covers a little. A hint- judge and adjust the cylinder tin fit with the generator (or alternator) stand and fan shroud in place; the fit around the ends of the shroud is important and you don't want to be too wide or narrow. If done right, the shroud will slip right down and the end bolts snug the cylinder covers down just like they're supposed to, without any extra metal covering the holes (if too wide) or cutting and modifying the sides of the covers to make the opening wider (if too narrow). When it comes to this time, send me a dialog if they don't fit and I'll help you get them adjusted. 

 

You may be bashing/cutting the cylinder covers up a little, so having them powdercoated afterwards should be the plan. Al

 

Gordon- Great to hear your experiences confirm it! Thanks for the info.

I know this is a minor point, but Scott's 2110 is not the traditional 90.5 x 82 mm 2110. It's a 78 x 94 mm 2110, so the entire package will perform a bit differently. It's not going to affect what he needs for tin, etc.-- but it is something to keep in mind.

 

I'm probably going to catch a bit of flack for this, but I observe what I observe. Conventional wisdom dictates that a 2110 have a 1-5/8" header, which means a very expensive set of custom heater boxes, if that's what a guy chooses. I'm out here in California with a 2110 running a 1-1/2" header (after running a similar engine with a 1-5/8" header), and I can say I like the powerband I've got now better than what I had with the bigger header. The difference is minuscule. 1-1/2" flanged heater boxes are not grossly overpriced, as Bugpack or somebody similar markets them to the masses.

 

If a guy might ever want heat, going with the 1-1/2" sidewinder set up for flanged boxes seems like the smarter way to go. I would not get the shroud with heat outputs, as I think cooling air out to be used for cooling. There are other options to get air through the heater boxes. If there is even a thought of future heat, no other change needs to be made-- just get the exhaust set up for flanged boxes, and get flanged J-pipes. The side benefit is that running a thermostat and flaps is WAY easier.

 

It's just my opinion, but it comes (yet again) from having to buy a bunch of stuff 2 or 3 times. Forewarned is forearmed.