Alan Merklin posted:I don't know if would help you but I custom made & machined still have) a VW spine to 3/4 x 7/8" D shaft w/ a U joint adapter between them.
Thank you for the kind offer, but I think that everything I am using is 5/8". BTW, that is a nice looking piece of hardware.
Gordon Nichols posted:I concur with the Samba Dude. While it would be nice to have them match spline count for spline count, when the clamping bolt is tightened to the proper torque (18 - 20 ft. lbs.) it clamps down on the splines, distorting them slightly and making a slip-proof connection. You may have to spread the jaws open with a screw driver to get it on, then just assemble the clamping bolt according to Hoyle, making the bolt line up with the flat on the shaft.
Before I counted the splines, I assumed that all 5/8" VW steering shaft hardware would have the same number of splines. When they did not fit, I tried the screwdriver spread, but when it still did not fit, I had the idea to count the splines. Other VW parts houses have the coupler and claim that their male end is 5/8" - 36, but the photos look exactly like the one I bought with 48 splines. While that may sound silly, (who could tell 36 splines from 48 splines in a photo), it is not so difficult to see the finer splines.
Unless someone tells me not to before tomorrow morning, I am going to try the screwdriver option again and then insist that the ends fit. I almost hope it does not work so I can figure out a way to make Dr. Clock's U-joint fit if only because it looks so darn cool.
Thank goodness for small victories. Got 2 U-joints and part of the steering coupler installed on the steering column. Had to stop at the rag joint pad because I read what @DannyP had to say about the urethane pad, which I had ordered before I had read his comment. I thought it might be a bit of exaggeration or anecdotal, but I read more about the urethane pads and it seems that quite a few people have had failure issues with the urethane pads, so I ordered an original pad and associated hardware from Wolfsburg West. It will be a few days before I can install the pad and start measuring for the steering shaft and column.
There have been so many red urethane steering couple failures and shift rod coupler failures, I don't understand why they still sell that junk. I won't even use the urethane transmission mounts. OEM German only for all .
You wouldn't believe the number of hours and beers, I have into the custom U joint.
Re: engine mounts
The CB Rhino mounts are nice and stiff, and seem to work very well. They seem to bridge the gap between stock rubber mounts and solid mounts very nicely.
Yeah, I like my Rhino front mount, too. That's what Carey is using on all of the Beck builds.
Todd M posted:Stan Galat posted:I too am one of the great unwashed, struggling along with a mere cable (the horror) to engage my clutch. I know it's unduly simple for a man clearly drawn to Rube Goldberg solutions to elementary problems, but I guess I just never found the act of pushing on a pedal to be particularly taxing on my left leg.
Perhaps it is my desire to make straightforward considerations into complex conclusions at war with my higher order ape physiology. When one has a physique not unlike an orangutan, devising a more complicated way to pull a clutch doesn't really enter my sloped forehead.
I promise to do better, and will be calling OK Go to help me engineer a more complex solution.
I did not think of it being more complex. I only saw that it was more expensive. And so I thought it must be better. And now that I reflect on my reasoning, I realize how dumb that rationale is. Oh well, the parts arrived this evening, so I will use what I got.
Todd, your rationale is not dumb. You will be glad you installed the slave saver (which can appropriately be also named "flat-bed tow home saver". That makes the cost of the slave saver a lot cheaper than dealing with an inevitable roadside calamity. The slave saver is not a pricey but worthless trinket.
I learned this (inevitably) along the roadside. I had installed my clutch slave much like illustrated in the thread above by EDSNOVA. My (CNC) slaver's rod snapped at the thread roots on the clutch arm end.
Reason: Because the clutch arm stroke action was misaligned with the rigid axis of the slave's stroke.
Solution: The slave saver improves static mounting alignment with the clutch arm to reduce binding. AND the rod-end connection maintains alignment through the arc of clutch arm travel. Bottom line, the slave's shaft doesn't bind on every stroke, and eventually break; and the hydraulic seals in the saver's bore are saved from off-axis forces.
So there my wife and I were, stuck alongside the road with no clutch, about 15 miles from the barn. How did we get home? Fortunately for us I had installed a high-torque starter motor during the build. I found that the starter motor had enough torque so that when in 1st gear with ignition On, I could get rolling on the starter motor fast enough that the engine would start. Subsequently, shifting without the clutch is something we all know how to do. On occasions when necessary to come to complete stop, turn off the ignition and apply brakes. To get going again, repeat the process.
Stan -- you can do this too, when your medieval clutch cable breaks. 
VW trans only pull toward the tailshaft of the trans to actuate the clutch. So in a mid-engine setup the slave cylinder just makes sense. The original Beck design used a pulley and a long cable. Later they switched to a custom reversing lever still using a cable.
The two Vintage Spyders I've had use hydraulic. Change the fluid every two years or you'll be buying a master and/or slave.
I use a slave saver. It moves the fixed pull point out from the trans so the slave pulls in a straight line rather than at an angle. Lasts longer that way.
I don't think it's particularly more expensive to go hydraulic. No brainer to do when building the car.
I don't seem to have any "feel" problems like some. I rather like it. It's not a super light effort either.
RS-60 mark posted......Stan -- you can do this too, when your medieval clutch cable breaks.
There's a 'clutch saver' of sorts for we Neanderthals who use a proper cable and it kinda applies the same principle - let things pivot smoothly through an arc instead of grinding themselves to death.
This deals with troubles at the other end - up near the pedal, where a bare metal hook often wears away or twists the cable. What amounts to a roller bearing replaces the hook.
Nothing to bleed - except your knuckles when installing it.
This is how the pedals, master cylinders, and steering column are all 'supposed' to fit together. The best laid plans, ...
The heavy pedal and "feel" issues I have found (and correct ted many times) are usually 1 of 2 things. 1) clutch master cylinder installed too high and not enough leverage and 2) mismatched clutch master and slave combination. The bigger the master bore, the harder the pedal, but if you go too small you won't throw enough to pull the clutch...
chines1 posted:The heavy pedal and "feel" issues I have found (and correct ted many times) are usually 1 of 2 things. 1) clutch master cylinder installed too high and not enough leverage and 2) mismatched clutch master and slave combination. The bigger the master bore, the harder the pedal, but if you go too small you won't throw enough to pull the clutch...
Thanks. I think Wildwood would agree with you. I had to measure the brake caliper piston bore, and know the size of the slave cylinder bore before they would take my order for the two master cylinders, and they put most of the dimensions on-line so you can measure and mock up before ordering. They recommended a 6.25 ratio over a 7.00 ration on the pedals, and it sounds like they know their stuff. Gotta have a couple mounting plates fabricated and welded, because I don't know how to work metal or weld. A couple of co-workers who have welders offered to help me weld them, but I am thinking that I will find a professional welder. It seems like some of the local welders are mobile, so they will come to the car rather than me taking the car to them; very handy.
Took my drawings to a local machine shop. OH MY GOSH!! $250!!! Any suggestions for the next time I need something fabricated.
I am fortunate that there is a machine shop near me who never charges me anything. He just says bring baked goods. Sometimes I almost feel guilty. I have never taken anything to him that requires this much fabrication. With your thing, I would probably cut the pieces and drill the holes and then have someone weld it. I buy metal pieces from Alro. I don't know if they are everywhere. They will cut pieces for a small fee.
"He just says bring baked goods. " what kind of brownies are you talking about
Todd M posted:
Took my drawings to a local machine shop. OH MY GOSH!! $250!!! Any suggestions for the next time I need something fabricated.
Maybe if you spec to the nearest .01", instead of .001", he'll knock a decimal place off his quote, too.
Sacto Mitch posted:
Todd M posted:
Took my drawings to a local machine shop. OH MY GOSH!! $250!!! Any suggestions for the next time I need something fabricated.
Maybe if you spec to the nearest .01", instead of .001", he'll knock a decimal place off his quote, too.
Yeah, that sounds right, for next time. Good suggestion, thanks.
Michael McKelvey posted:I am fortunate that there is a machine shop near me who never charges me anything. He just says bring baked goods. Sometimes I almost feel guilty. I have never taken anything to him that requires this much fabrication. With your thing, I would probably cut the pieces and drill the holes and then have someone weld it. I buy metal pieces from Alro. I don't know if they are everywhere. They will cut pieces for a small fee.
The metal itself only costs $28.00. The rest is time. How do you cut a 1 1/2" hole in 1/4" thick steel? I think I could drill the smaller holes, but I don't know how to drill large holes in steel.
If I still lived in PA I would do this for you during lunch hour at my friends machine shop for cost of material, two cases of beer and postage.
Good one, Mitch!
“I am fortunate that there is a machine shop near me who never charges me anything. He just says bring baked goods.”
Sounds like the guys from ”Car Talk”.
Chocolate chip cookies work for me - I have a couple of welders, too - And a plasma cutter.
But next time, Todd, try swinging by your local high school or Voc Ed school and ask if the metal shop could do it, especially if you supply the materials.
Gordon Nichols posted:But next time, Todd, try swinging by your local high school or Voc Ed school and ask if the metal shop could do it, especially if you supply the materials.
Excellent idea!
1/4 steel is quite hefty! You could go with aluminum which is much easier to cut, drill and tap. Even a cheap HF step drill would enlarge holes to correct size.
WOLFGANG posted:1/4 steel is quite hefty! You could go with aluminum which is much easier to cut, drill and tap. Even a cheap HF step drill would enlarge holes to correct size.
I was thinking 1/8" might be adequate, but that was based on no experience or actual knowledge, so I doubled it so I could be sure. At 1/4" it appears that both plates will add about 3 1/2 lbs, so the trade off isn't too bad. The plates will be welded to a steel frame. For future reference, is it even possible to weld aluminum to steel? No, I am not being sarcastic. I truly don't know. Any why do metal workers use those step down bits rather than regular drill bits?
Sacto Mitch posted:
Todd M posted:
Took my drawings to a local machine shop. OH MY GOSH!! $250!!! Any suggestions for the next time I need something fabricated.
Maybe if you spec to the nearest .01", instead of .001", he'll knock a decimal place off his quote, too.
After looking at the dimensions on the brake part drawings and the dimensions I calc'd, I realized that three places after the decimal was fantasy on my part, so I called the machinist and gave him the less stringent tolerance news this morning.
Todd, No you can't weld aluminum to steel. Steel and iron based alloys are ferrous, Aluminum and its alloys are non-ferrous. You can only weld like to like, so a ferrous metal can be welded only to another ferrous metal. That doesn't even mean all ferrous metals can be welded, some alloys just don't like it. Likewise some aluminum alloys weld better than others. To join ferrous to non-ferrous you'd need to use a mechanical method and/or adhesive. A combination of both would be best (say rivets and adhesive) which is what you'll see folks use when they put aluminum floors on Lotus 7 builds. The adhesive not only helps hold it together, it acts as an insulator between the aluminum and steel to prevent galvanic corrosion (another post for another time).
Step drill bits are just too damn handy for putting holes in thin sheet metal. Let's say you want to drill a 1/2" hole in 1/16" sheet metal. If you grab a normal 1/2 drill and just try to drill it, the likelihood is that the big drill bit will catch on the thin sheet metal and either tear a hole through the sheet, or walk the hole over to a new location. To correctly drill said hole without a step bit, you center-punch to locate the hole, then use a small drill (1/8"?) to drill a pilot hole. Next go up to a 3/16" bit and drill, then swap bits to a 1/4" and drill...so forth and so on until you hit your 1/2" target. That's a lot of work for one hole, imagine you have 20 to drill! The step drill is purpose built to drill thin sheet metal and step up the size of the hole gradually until you hit your target without all that work. A good job can even be done without a drill press. Once you get up to thicker materials, like your 1/4" thick steel, then you're back to using several bits to work your way up because 1/4" isn't really sheet metal anymore, it's steel plate. Now if you had a milling machine that would open up even more possibilities for random holes in thick materials.
@JMM (Michael) - Good to know, and I will purchase the step bit because whenever I need to make a hole in sheet metal, I start with a very small bit and, ..., you know the drill. Get it, drill, get it.
I made my driving light mounts out of 1/4” thick stainless steel plate because I wanted to polish them to look good.....Forever. Had no clue about how hard stainless steel is. Had to heat the living heck out of it and then used a really big hammer just to bend it into a 90° angle and THEN had to drill four holes in each - one of them was 5/8”. Had to re-sharpen each drill size after every hole and in the end, they had all lost their hardness.
IIRC, after that was all done I threw away that drill set and bought a much harder set (for some serious bucks). Haven’t messed much with thick Stainless since.
I bought a step drill (for the first time) a few months ago, about the time I started with the holes in the type 3 backing plates, and I'm surprised at how much I use it. I bought a cheap one ($25?), not expecting it to last, and am surprised at how long it's lasted- I think the secret is to let it cut and not push it too hard. I've found that even in material .120- .150" thick (not exactly what you'd call 'sheet metal') it does such a nice job when drilling bigger sizes, and you can use the next size to bevel the hole, flip it over, do the other side and you're done.
I've never worked with stainless, Gordon, but when I was drilling transaxle parts (most stuff surface hardened to .035 or .040" depth and in some places hardened all the way through) carbide bits were the only thing that cut it (quite literally!). Carbide drill bits, although very hard, are also expensive and somewhat brittle- if you're not careful they do break (I'll let you guess how loud and what I yelled when I broke a $60 1/4" bit after destroying 2 1/8" bits at $25 apiece). I've also mastered getting the hard broken chunks out of the holes (no small feat until you figure it out) so you can finish what you're doing and keep things balanced. Al
Bottom line: making/adjusting your pedal/MC bulkheads is a PIA. Here's me spending all day last year just moving one mounting hole down 3/4 of an inch:
ALB posted:I bought a step drill (for the first time) a few months ago, about the time I started with the holes in the type 3 backing plates, and I'm surprised at how much I use it. I bought a cheap one ($25?), not expecting it to last, and am surprised at how long it's lasted- I think the secret is to let it cut and not push it too hard. I've found that even in material .120- .150" thick (not exactly what you'd call 'sheet metal') it does such a nice job when drilling bigger sizes, and you can use the next size to bevel the hole, flip it over, do the other side and you're done.
I've never worked with stainless, Gordon, but when I was drilling transaxle parts (most stuff surface hardened to .035 or .040" depth and in some places hardened all the way through) carbide bits were the only thing that cut it (quite literally!). Carbide drill bits, although very hard, are also expensive and somewhat brittle- if you're not careful they do break (I'll let you guess how loud and what I yelled when I broke a $60 1/4" bit after destroying 2 1/8" bits at $25 apiece). I've also mastered getting the hard broken chunks out of the holes (no small feat until you figure it out) so you can finish what you're doing and keep things balanced. Al
Now I don't feel so bad paying someone else to do it.
I'll make it for you. PM me.
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:I'll make it for you. PM me.
Thanks, but I took the drawing to the machine shop on Monday, which is when I found out how much it cost.
You're paying way too much
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:You're paying way too much
I won't argue that. Are you a machinist? Next time, I will pm you a drawing, or email you a drawing.
Harbor Freight step drills are great. I have a 3 drill set, goes up to 1/2". I think I paid 9 bucks for them. One has about 6 steps, one has double that. Then I bought a larger set of two, they go up to an inch or so. I think $17 was the price. Been using them for years now, and as Al says, very handy for cleaning/chamfering the holes with the next size step. I use them on aluminum and steel sheet, and up to 3/16" mild steel.
I agree, Todd, 250 is steep. $5 in materials tops, one weld and a few holes. Seriously?
I could do it for $50 and still make a profit.
@DANNYP Per my previous posting ..... If I still lived in PA, I would do this for you during lunch hour at my friends machine shop for cost of material ( $5) two cases of beer ($38) and postage ($7) Somehow matches Danny's estimate....
Great Minds Think Alike :~)
As a small business owner, the price doesn’t surprise me even a little bit. Machinists are in business to make money. They have enormous overhead along with liability and work comp insurance.
Regarding step bits, and whatnot: step bits are not really designed for material any thicker than about 16 gauge, and that assumes you’re using a very high-quality bit (like a Lennox). We use Lennox double fluted step bits to drill electrical knockouts all the time. The bits we use are about $85 wholesale. To drill the bigger holes in this piece, what I would use is a holesaw in a drill press. The guy making it would have to watch the turning speed and use cutting oil, or the bit would be ruined.
Yeah, lots of us could do it outselves for a case of beer or whatever, because this piece is really a pretty simple fabrication and doesn’t need a machinist. But the OP took it to a machine shop with tolerances to 3 decimal places. We would built it to +/- 1/16”.
The machine shop is trying to stay in business by making a profit. The guy who owns the machine shop probably doesn’t drive a Ferrari. Taking a drawing to the right place if a guy doesn’t have the tools would keep the cost down, but nobody anywhere is going to build anything one off for less than $200.
Do that 2 or 3 times, and you can buy a LOT of tools for the money.
