I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
Stan Galat posted:But the OP took it to a machine shop with tolerances to 3 decimal places. We would built it to +/- 1/16”.
I called the machinist and let him know when I realized that some of the dimensions were to 3 decimal places. I had the default in my CAD program set to 3 decimal places and that is what it used when I auto dimensioned, and I did not realize it.
DannyP posted:I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
I took it to the closest machinist I could find, and that may be a lot of the cost; high rent. Embarrassingly, I somehow got one of the dimensions wrong on one of the larger holes and since it is the weekend, I had to enlarge the hole myself. So, now I know how to drill 1/4" steel plate, and smooth the edges. I dulled a bit to uselessness, but it is a bit for which I previously did not know it's use, and I don't even know how I acquired it. But, it did it's job about 3/4 of the way through the steel before it got too dull to cut. The rest I ground away by various methods. Smoothed down the edges with a dremel. Who wooda thunk? but, it worked. Next time, I will buy some steel and give it a shot myself, and if that does not turn out well, ...
Soon, it will time to weld and I am debating. Watch some youtube on 'How to Weld', borrow a friends MIG welder, practice a bit, and then try welding it myself, or hire someone to do it for me. Any advice?
Todd M posted:DannyP posted:I could buy the steel, drill bits, holesaw, and a cheap drill press for less than $250. Maybe even a cheap arc welder and a grinder. Still ahead of the game.
The satisfaction of doing it myself is worth nothing to anyone but me.
I totally understand the shop is there to make money.
Tip: drive an old beater, wear ripped jeans and let your beard grow a bit before you walk in a machine shop's door. Pull up in a fancy car wearing new Nikes fancy jeans and some gold? Bend over.
I took it to the closest machinist I could find, and that may be a lot of the cost; high rent. Embarrassingly, I somehow got one of the dimensions wrong on one of the larger holes and since it is the weekend, I had to enlarge the hole myself. So, now I know how to drill 1/4" steel plate, and smooth the edges. I dulled a bit to uselessness, but it is a bit for which I previously did not know it's use, and I don't even know how I acquired it. But, it did it's job about 3/4 of the way through the steel before it got too dull to cut. The rest I ground away by various methods. Smoothed down the edges with a dremel. Who wooda thunk? but, it worked. Next time, I will buy some steel and give it a shot myself, and if that does not turn out well, ...
Soon, it will time to weld and I am debating. Watch some youtube on 'How to Weld', borrow a friends MIG welder, practice a bit, and then try welding it myself, or hire someone to do it for me. Any advice?
If you weld it and it fails and you die a horrible death you'll wish you paid someone to do it.
If you weld it and it fails and no one gets hurt you will have learned a lesson, be a little wiser, and then pay someone to do it.
On the Job Training has its place. As Danny said above, there is satisfaction in doing some things ourselves. However, there is a big difference between learning how to do something, such as welding, and THEN using that skill on a project. There is also a big difference between welding a cosmetic piece and a structural piece. Welding a muffler bracket is not critical. Welding a frame rail or steering or brake component is.
If you try spray painting your car without experience, the worst that would happen is a poor quality paint job. If you weld a structural component on your car and it fails, that could have a serious impact on your life expectancy.
Looks like Robert and I were typing at the same time.
It never occurred to me before, but Darwin was really writing about welding.
I thought I could weld decent and did "ok" for brackets exhaust etc. Then my friend who owns a machine shop took the time to show me how to really weld. ( I am slightly better at it) "Randy" welds beads that look like a robotic welds with perfect penetration. There is a science to this, learning physical properties of various metal is an education. Overall, welding is skill that you can't learn with just a wire feed Mig and some practice on scrap metal.
Alan Merklin posted:Overall, welding is skill that you can't learn with just a wire feed Mig and some practice on scrap metal.
I really regret that I can't like this more than once.
The problem with acquiring skills is that the older one gets, the more we tend to appreciate a job done well. Learning a new skill generally means doing it poorly at first, then getting better with practice. This process can be aided by good instruction, but fumbling will never be eliminated entirely. The first time is always going to be clumsy.
There are vast differences in the difficulty of various skills we try to acquire.
Some fabrication is mostly just a matter of drilling, grinding, filing, etc.-- these skills are basic, but even here there are some basic things to know-- the hardness of various metals, the difference between various types of drill bits (black oxide, cobalt, etc.), where it's appropriate to use a step-bit, etc. My shop has about 10 different angle grinders-- not because I love buying power tools, but because I've got some set up with cutting wheels, some with grinding wheels, some with flapper wheels, and some set up with diamond masonry wheels (segmented, smooth, and cupped for various uses). Knowing what you need is not small part of getting the job done.
... but when you get to welding, it's a completely different thing. Welding is a skill that has to be acquired by practice with good tools-- taking a first step and building from there. Almost anybody can be taught fairly quickly to do a lap-joint weld with 2 pieces of clean mild steel of identical thickness, assuming the welder is already set up, the shielding gas is appropriate to the material, and the pieces are laying flat on a well-lit bench. The problem is that this is the very first step in a lifelong journey of acquiring skills and the tools needed to use them. Thinking that a lap-joint in a shop class makes you a welder is like thinking that learning G, C, and D on a nylon string guitar makes you Eddie Van Halen. Even the most instinctively talented welders have practiced and mastered various types of welding on progressively more expensive rigs before moving onto more complicated types. The whole process takes years, no matter who you are.
There are things I will weld, and things I take to a real welder. I appreciate good welds, and I know that guys who can do it well command real money. Try getting something welded on an oil field. The guys who know what they are doing won't back up their truck for less than $1000.
Painting is the same thing. I have painted cars, but I'd never be satisfied with one of my paint-jobs on a car I really care about. Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way.
Machinists exist almost at the top of the industrial skills food-chain. Tool and die makers are at the apex. I wouldn't recommend taking anything to either one unless you really do need something made to the nearest .001.
None of us go to work for free. It's silly to think that anybody else wants to either.
All this time I thought owning the equipment made us a master 
NOT...
@Robert M @Jim Kelly @Alan Merklin @Stan Galat
Exactly what I needed to hear, (read). What y'all said makes perfect sense.
I made myself chuckle thinking back on when J. Raby used to blow his horn on here (can't deny that he has some mad skilz). But on one post (involving welding talk) Jake mentioned that he began Mig-welding (expertly) when he was 12.
Not to be out-done, I mentioned that I INVENTED Mig-welding when I was 11. 
And then George Brown said he invented it when he was 10...
Ah, the good ole days on SOC.
George George who
And then George from Texas Un-invented welding and revised everything we had been doing wrong with his own techniques and expertly showed us how inept we all were... 
Wait - Nicola T. and I invented arc welding when I was in real cloth diapers. Along with death ray, wireless electrical transmission and earthquake generator .
Some of the fiberglass in the trunk needs to be trimmed for make room for the master cylinders. What do you use to cut/saw the fiberglass?
Also, does anybody know what the distance should be from the steering wheel to the dash? Somehow, measuring the distance in our modern cars doesn't seem like it would be comparable.
Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Sacto Mitch posted:Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Yeah, about that...
It's true that every good painter probably ruined a car or two along the way.
I am living evidence that not everybody who ruined a car eventually became a good painter.
Todd wrote: "Also, does anybody know what the distance should be from the steering wheel to the dash?"
Without going out to the garage, uncovering the car, getting all of the various and sundry things away from the door so I can open it (like sand buckets and snowblowers and stuff), if you have your hands on the steering wheel and simulate driving the car, you should be able to reach the headlight and wiper switches to pull on them to turn them on without removing your hands from the steering wheel. THAT's the way the originals were set up (and for that reason).
How's that sound? My guess, from the couch in my Man Cave on the banks of the Quinsigamond river, is about 4" - 5" or so. YFMV...(Your fingers may vary - Besides....It's a replica. Do what'cha like).
Oops! Almost forgot. Todd also asked: "Some of the fiberglass in the trunk needs to be trimmed for make room for the master cylinders. What do you use to cut/saw the fiberglass?"
Just about anything that's handy, depending on the shape of the cut, the space available, that sort of thing. Sawzall, Saber Saw, air-operated cut-off wheel or Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel or a small (1/8" - 3/16" dia) rotary rasp. If you use a saw, get a blade with as many teeth as possible for a finer cut (24 - 40 teeth per inch (TPI). If you use a Dremel, use a ceramic cut off wheel for metal, not one of the fiber and resin versions, for a smoother cut or a fine rasp (my personal fav.). On either, don't run the blade too fast as it will heat up the resin and might burn it (don't worry....It just discolors.)
No matter what you use, please wear a really good dust mask. Don't be like this dumb-ass, trimming a headlight bucket free-hand without a mask (notice that everyone else is looking away, they're so embarrassed). Nice "Top-Siders, though.
Sacto Mitch posted:
Stan Galat posted:
...Painting is the same thing. ... Guys who can really paint didn't hatch out of an egg-- they had a good deal of native talent, and they grew into doing perfect paint. If you want to learn how to paint, you are going to ruin a couple of cars along the way...
So I guess I can take some comfort in knowing that the guy who painted my car was on his way to becoming someone who can really paint.
Painting a car is mostly attention to detail during the body work/ prep stage- no painter can hide flaws in the substrate. As for the paint part, it's amazing what a color sand and buff can do for a poor spray effort as long as there's enough paint to work with. I've seen some pretty horrific back yard/home garage jobs turn into not bad with a little (ok, maybe a lot of) elbow grease afterwards.
"It's true that every good painter probably ruined a car or two along the way."
I think of it as a modern patina.
My car's a survivor - it survived a harrowing 21-day construction process in a shop that was famous for banging them out faster than anyone else. There's some history there.
Every drip, every dull spot, every patch of orange peel has a story to tell - a sandwich truck that turned up early for lunch break, a spray gun with a clogged nozzle, a shop light that cast a shadow in a bad place.
It would be easy to buff all of that out and have a perfect paint job like everyone else. But these cars are only original once.
@Gordon Nichols - Thanks
I endorse Mitch's attitude because it is the only possible correct attitude. As the CCCA (Clown Car Club/America) decrees—and as every concours judge learns and wields like a cudgel—it's not the cars...and it's not the people: it's the provenance!
I want a CCCA badge.
Mitch- get on it, man.
Me, too!
OK Stan, here ya go:
I'm in!
edsnova posted:I endorse Mitch's attitude because it is the only possible correct attitude. As the CCCA (Clown Car Club/America) decrees—and as every concours judge learns and wields like a cudgel—it's not the cars...and it's not the people: it's the provenance!
Ed: I live in the provenance of Ontario, Canada. Does that count?
Sacto Mitch posted:OK Stan, here ya go:
Good start, Mitch.
But since everybody is an artist: let’s make the clown a little creepier, and replace the horse with a tow-truck.
And why limit it to the U.S.?
Make it the PCCW.
I like it as is with the PCCA similarity to PCA.
Hilarious! If you make em' I'm in for one.
Bob, this was for amusement only (caution, you must be 18 years or older to play).
Besides, I don't have access to the vast badge-making resources of a @Rich Drewek , and the design probably wouldn't work as a badge anyhow (too many colors, blends, etc.). And then there's the prospect of a looming tow-truck controversy, and you know how ugly that could get (flatbed vs. closed, single axle vs. dual axle, low profile vs. full height, etc.).
I'd also face the prospect of being visited by humorless, black-suited agents of the PCA, and being threatened with financial ruin. I might also be blackballed from any jewelers that are official dealers for Rolex watches.
And life's just too short for that.
I did notice, though, that VistaPrint will put a design on those transparent, press-on stickers, and those might look a lot like the PCA windshield decals. The cost would be almost free per sticker. This might be worth it for use at car shows, just to see the reaction of passing PCA members and their staff.
I might look into the stickers thing.
Sacto Mitch posted:
Bob, this was for amusement only (caution, you must be 18 years or older to play).
Besides, I don't have access to the vast badge-making resources of a @Rich Drewek , and the design probably wouldn't work as a badge anyhow (too many colors, blends, etc.). And then there's the prospect of a looming tow-truck controversy, and you know how ugly that could get (flatbed vs. closed, single axle vs. dual axle, low profile vs. full height, etc.).
I'd also face the prospect of being visited by humorless, black-suited agents of the PCA, and being threatened with financial ruin. I might also be blackballed from any jewelers that are official dealers for Rolex watches.
And life's just too short for that.
I did notice, though, that VistaPrint will put a design on those transparent, press-on stickers, and those might look a lot like the PCA windshield decals. The cost would be almost free per sticker. This might be worth it for use at car shows, just to see the reaction of passing PCA members and their staff.
I might look into the stickers thing.
Please do.
I'd like to resolve the tow-truck controversy : I humbly submit-
... and please make the clown creepier.
If it's PCCA with a creepier clown and 'Mater as the tow truck count me in! Stickers would be cheap enough.
As for badges, how about something with Speedsterowners.com in smaller print across the top (around the edge?), some sort of simple Speedster silhouette/line drawing with 'Outcast' in bigger letters across the bottom?
We couldn't use this as it's someone's art, but something like
but from a slightly elevated front/3 quarter view, just enough contrast across the top lines to define shape (these pics are just to give people an idea of the view/angle I'm thinking of- I'm not much of an artist, so I'm really of no help here)-
or even this (without the roll bar)-
I like the top one ....
I’m in, make it a glass removable tacky thing.
Marty Grzynkowicz posted:I’m in, make it a glass removable tacky thing.
I didn't seriously think this would be something folks might want to put on their cars.
Let me look at creepier clown art. (I've got no drawing skills, and am limited to clip-art with no copyright issues). I think the Disney tow-truck is out for that reason. It's amazing how even places like VistaPrint will refuse an order on copyright grounds.
I kinda liked the clown I went with - it's got that clueless, about-to-be-blindsided look that I have every time I turn the key on the Speedster.
Copyright story:
A friend likes a kinda pricey brand of scotch, so that's become our standard Christmas gift for him. One year, we wanted to goof him by wrapping the Scotch bottle in Budweiser wrapping paper. Believe it or don't, I couldn't find any Budweiser wrapping paper, so decided to print up some of my own.
I found some high-res Bud logos online, put them together in a big sheet in Photoshop, and went to the neighborhood (big commercial chain) copy and print shop. They refused to print out one, single sheet on copyright grounds.
I guess if they'd been P-car logos, I'd still be in jail.
I kinda liked the first one you came up with, too, Mitch. Maybe alter the logo to “North American Plastic Car Club” to include our Canadian friends if it’s not too hard, and make it 3-4” dia (or locally sizeable) and we can all print them locally.
No big deal to print it on static cling vinyl (available from Staples or Michael’s) then just cut it out and stick it to your windshield or fender.
Badda Bing, Badda Boom.
