Nice black on black Cayman on BAT

I really think the 6 cylinder Porsches are going to hold their values for a long time now that Porsche is switching to turbo 4s.  If I was looking for a cayman or a boxster I'd get a 6.

I have been wondering about a used Cayman vs. a new Subaru BRZ.

Even though they might cost about the same, it seems like the cost of ownership would be a lot higher with the Cayman.

Ever since I joined the PCA I feel the urge to get a "real" Porsche.

If we lived in a better climate, I'd have a Cayman as a daily driver and take Natalie out in the sunshine.

However, with our winters, I would need another car to drive in the snow, so not for me.
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I owned quite a few performance cars when my overhead was less and my kids were little including a 1999 BMW M Coupe and a 2001 Porsche Boxster S.  Yes they were great but the vast amount of time I spent driving these incredible machines was going back and forth to work.  And wow were they expensive to maintain.  Once paid $1700 for a 6 disc changer for the Boxster.  Insane.  Just can't justify this kind of bank for a commuter.  Much cheaper performance cars can be had without the guilt.  Current driver is a Fiat Abarth.  Before I drove a VW R32.  I say buy the Subaru BRZ and save the fun money for the speedy.

I have mostly heard bad things about Boxsters. Fun to drive, lots of mechanical issues, and expensive to maintain. Gee that sounds really familiar. 

 

I had a 2006 Cayman. Wonderful car! As always and  with every Porsche I have owned ( 8), there is that financial doom looming. Each car has it's issues. Even so, a wonderful car. The two things on this car are the IMS and RMS neither a deal breaker, but to be aware of and have checked out before the funds leave your account. But I certainly would get another one --- probably will.

Michael McKelvey posted:

 

...Ever since I joined the PCA I feel the urge to get a "real" Porsche.

Why would you want to do that when the car you have now is way more fun than anything that only comes out of the garage to get onto the trailer, onto the show field, back on the trailer and back into the garage?

...and another Cayman, not or a Cayman...:-).

@ALB if I bought the Cayman it would be a daily driver. I would still have the Speedster.

@550 Phil I currently have a Fiat (not Abarth) as a daily driver. After 5 years with it I am considering a change.

Hey Guys

There is only one car that is a great everyday driver in summer

• If your tall, no problem
• You want to take you, your buddy and a two sets of golf clubs to the course, no problem
• You want want a car that is comfortable on long rides, no problem
• You want to blow the doors off 95% of all car out there, no problem
• You want the the best bang for your buck in perform, no problem
• You want to drive in the snow, Oh that is a problem.

Here is it.  My ride.

 

Michael McKelvey posted:

I have been wondering about a used Cayman vs. a new Subaru BRZ.

Even though they might cost about the same, it seems like the cost of ownership would be a lot higher with the Cayman.

Ever since I joined the PCA I feel the urge to get a "real" Porsche.

I don't think the P crowd is going to treat you a whole lot better with a Cayman 

^ Right.

The "P-team" is really the "911-team". They'll allow 944 and Cayman guys in the club, but only so they can give them wedgies and snigger about their less-pretty girlfriends.

No desire whatsoever to be a part of all that. I'd happily roll a Cayman, Boxster, 912, or 914. I'm a big fan of 911s as well. Just not the "P-team" people in this part of the world

... and Bobby's right. A 'vette is the high-water mark of bang/buck. Or at least it was before FoMoCo gave us the Mustang GT350.

Sorry you guys have such a low opinion of the PCA crowd. I have been a member for 20 years. Sure every group has their problem children, but the Porsche guys are true car guys like you guys . Not sure where the bad vibes are coming from. They do tend to be into racing... to expensive for me. But I have met many great folks through my various Porsches and Porsche activities. Just saying... keep an open mind , even if you had a bad experience.... 

I have to agree with Moto as my experience with the local PCA crowd has been great, with only one minor exception.

Yeah, Carlos, there are Porsche owners and PCA members that are true car guys and can appreciate other beasts, but there are enough P snobs around (everywhere) for the stereotype to exist. And I'm not just basing this on the fact that replicas aren't welcome as real cars with the PCA (or generally any local P club); they don't have P vin #'s and are not really part of the marque. I get that and understand it. If you want in, buy a Porsche. It's the disdain and ridicule some have for anything that isn't like what they have. Al

And besides, we're Poopiehead Club of America members! 

_{Take that, Porsche owners....}

I just happen to like the Cayman better than the 911. IMHO, much style was lost between the 356 & the 911 and the Cayman brought it back. Great looks, mid-engine handling, and great performance and I also like it better than it's sister the Boxter, which looks a little too girly for my taste.
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That's a good-looking automobile 

https://www.google.com/search?...mp;bih=559&dpr=2

I agree Tom, plus in the Cayman/Boxster your  immediately feel like a driver with skills.   The balance is top-notch.   Sandy still misses our Red 07 Boxster quite a bit, but we have a lot more fun with the 356.  It's a lifestyle:-)

Stan,

Luigi owns  911 and Mario owns a 914.  Poor guy. 

I tend to agree with Tom as well. The Cayman looks better, drives better, and is the rightful successor to what the 911 used to be (before it became a $100K GT). I'd love to find a nice Cayman S, and massage it into a poor-man's GT4.

Regarding the Boxster... I so wish we could get past the "girl car" thing with Boxsters and Miatas. They're both fantastic cars. 

Boxster definitely not a girls car.  My Boxster S was the best handling car I have ever own.  Sure my spyders were more fun.  But that Boxster was planted.  Impossible to get that car sideways. My BMW M Coupe would switch ends at the blink of an eye, and without warning.  Because of the torque the BMW was a better daily driver.

I guess everything is relative.  If you've got tremendous bank why not drive a modern Porsche to work and the spyder or speedster on the weekends.  I'd sure like to be there one day.

Here is my much loved Cayman.

This thread brings up some really interesting points.

All of us have other cars-- most of them are daily conveyances. I'd bet that 99% of us have two other cars (his and hers). Mrs. Galat is not a car-girl (at all), and will happily roll the 2012 Town and Country minivan as long as the heated seats and steering wheel hold on (well, that and the rear DVD screens). I'm locked into a work van for my daily-driver. The business bought a '64 panel bus a few years ago, but it's the white elephant-- cool, but never sees the light of day.

The speedster is a fair-weather friend, and I'll always have one.

But I still get this itch sometimes for another "more useful" coupe. Sometimes it becomes a rash. The problem is, I can't think of one excuse why I might need one.

Still... if I could ever justify it, I don't think it'd be a Cayman, no matter how nice. Today (and it might change tomorrow), I think I'd buy that GT350, or some other modern 'Murican muscle-car just so I could know what it was like to buy something that uses normal, durable, and inexpensive parts, and still runs circles around stuff costing 2-3x as much, as opposed to the speedster (which inverts that equation).

Let the flaming begin.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

I tend to agree with Tom as well. The Cayman looks better, drives better, and is the rightful successor to what the 911 used to be (before it became a $100K GT). I'd love to find a nice Cayman S, and massage it into a poor-man's GT4.

Regarding the Boxster... I so wish we could get past the "girl car" thing with Boxsters and Miatas. They're both fantastic cars. 

A Cayman is just a hardtop Boxster so I don't get the whole "girl car" either. A Miata from 27 years ago (debut in 1990) looked like a car only a girl would drive and the name didn't help it either in my opinion. But today's MX5 is nothing like the Miata of years gone by. If people think it's still a "girl car" then they don't know cars.

Wolfgang has a new MX5. If it is a "girl's car" then buy me a skirt and a halter top.

ALB posted:

...

And besides, we're Poopiehead Club of America members! 

_{Take that, Porsche owners....}

You can be such a Joufoo sometimes.

Bob, I'm trying to get that picture out of my head.  

Jethro posted:

ALB posted:

...

And besides, we're Poopiehead Club of America members! 

_{Take that, Porsche owners....}

You can be such a Joufoo sometimes.

Yeah, I can...

Marty Grzynkowicz posted:

Bob, I'm trying to get that picture out of my head.  

Yeah, not one of my finer word pictures. It upsets me too.

I like the early Miatas better than the recent ones. The early ones were much more like what the MGB might have been if MG did not go out of business. Like a proper sports car, on a version of Planet Earth where the Malaise Years never happened. 

The recent MX5 is more like that early car, but with all the 1970s-80s bloat the original car eschewed.  

If you go to China you can see big advertisements for MG cars. It is a little surreal. 

 

The original Miata project was a freakishly lucky one-time collision of talent and resources that isn't likely to ever happen again.

A bunch of car guys were locked up in their very own design studio, given the resources of a major auto company, and allowed to build the traditionally influenced sports car they wanted to build, without having to pay much attention to an army of marketing types.

Imagine what might result if Henry Reisner were given the resources of a FoMoCo to play with for a few years.

Bob Hall, the spark behind it all, used to come on the old Compuserve Miata Forum and explain at some length how it all happened.

Eventually, the marketers and bean counters at Mazda regained control, and we got the more predictable third generation car. Still not bad, compared to anything any other major maker was producing, but nowhere near as 'pure' as the original.

I guess they found they were selling a lot more cars to secretaries than to car guys, and the market worked pretty predictable results on the product.

A nice lesson in the different products that result from gut instinct and gonads on the one hand, and focus groups on the other.

 

edsnova posted:

I like the early Miatas better than the recent ones. The early ones were much more like what the MGB might have been if MG did not go out of business. Like a proper sports car, on a version of Planet Earth where the Malaise Years never happened. 

The recent MX5 is more like that early car, but with all the 1970s-80s bloat the original car eschewed.  

Agreed.  I had a '91, somewhat modified, and it was really a 'true' sports car.  Every iteration since then has just moved the Miata further away from that ideal. 

It all went downhill when Mazda replaced the functioning oil pressure gauge with a gauge that operated like an idiot light, as too many owners were complaining about lower oil pressure when the engine was hot, compared to when it was cold.  Hello?  Had they any idea of what really happens in an engine? 

We just sold our 93.  An awesomely reliable and fun car.  A good investment if you find an unmolested lower mileage car.  As far as the Boxster goes I have  to say I never felt  girly when driving it, buy you do feel like a bonified yuppie.  

Mitch, you are 100% on the point when you say marketing.  This is from the Miata website.  

 

I saw a Miata targa recently. Quite attractive. (Here is a photo of the Miata I owned.)

Great car, a lot of fun for the price, reliable, tight in the corners, ... but just not a good fit for me. I always felt it would make a great track car.

My son was not a car guy when he was a boy, but I was determined to corrupt him.

Mike was a good student, an athlete, and a math geek. We raised all our kids in my hometown, out on the rim of nowhere, nestled in the corn and bean fields in the breadbasket of America. Tremont, Illinois is a latter day Mayberry, RFD, and we raised our kids there on purpose. It's a small town throwback to a simpler time with lots and lots of one income/two-parent families, a church for every 500 people in the population, and more community involvement in the (blue-ribbon) school that you can imagine. In Tremont, all the women are strong, the men good looking, and the children above average. 

There are some differences, though, from when I grew up there. We don't raise car-guys, anymore. Kids go to college and become productive members of a modern society. I was determined to make sure Michael knew his way around a well-made mechanical device before he started designing things other people would have to work on.

When he was 16, he needed a car. He was mildly interested in tuner Hondas, but I gently steered him towards a sad and lonely 1990 Miata sitting neglected on a lot in Peoria. The car was a wreck-- not a good starting point for anything, but gave him a good feel for the cars "sweetness" was all about.

He found a better car. It was a low mile 1990 with a removable hard-top. The car was tight and sweet. It had some Enkei-like aftermarket wheels on it. He decided to use the beater as a parts car, and pull the trigger on the better car.

It was his daily driver for a year or so (all winter, too). One snowy night, he came into his friend's house a bit too hot and slid into a basketball standard.

By this time, he was gaining confidence. He priced out repair parts, and I convinced him to buy a body kit for it. His HS graduation gift from me was a carbon-fiber hood, and a Hard-Dog Racing roll bar. I think I gave him a Sparco seats or a Momo steering wheel for Christmas/Birthdays, etc.

He did all the body and paint work at a friend's shop. The car was really very cool. The body kit (like most body kits) was garbage, and he learned a lot about the difference between price and value, etc.

In the middle of all this, we bought a Gen 2 car for one of my daughters (a salvage rebuild). The Gen 2 cars have not become cult-favorites. That car, though way more refined, didn't lose a thing in terms of sweetness.

The point of all of this is to say that Miatas, MX5s, or whatever you want to call them get sooooo little respect-- but IMHO, the disrespect is born out of complete ignorance. The dynamics of the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars was fantastic. They were ridiculously easy to work on, not that they needed it very often. If Lotus or Alfa Romeo had built these cars, they would have sold for 3x as much and become cult-cars for 2 generations at least. Instead, they're "girl's cars". Such hogwash.

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars were everything I should have wanted my Speedster to be-- useful, reliable, tossable, full of personality, easy to work on, etc. They are perfect to convert a millennial into a car-guy.

Over the years, I've morphed my bathroom fixture of a car into a kind of mad-scientist's toy. I've mined down into the combustion chambers, trying to get a bit more out of an 80 year old platform. But I'm an outlier and an idiot. Sensible people, at the core want a "fun car" to be everything a Miata is, and that's why I've often said that if anything else will scratch the itch, guys should look elsewhere. If nothing else will do it, then "welcome to the madness", our little shop of curiosities. 

An MX5 seems pretty smart to me.

I'm one that has never considered a Miata, perhaps out of ignorance but they just didn't do it for me and I didn't want one for my wife if I had to driver around in it with her on weekends. Just didn't like the lines, even with the top down.....there just aren't many convertibles that look good with the top up. But this new "retractable fastback".... wow

 

I saw one of these at the Detroit auto show and watched the top go up and down a few times. The only thing I don't like is the screen sticking up above the dash. I wish it was better integrated.