Oh no! It doesn't go fast?

Hi all,

I been a lurker for a bit now and just about to commit to a new Speedster until I discovered one very important piece of info. ...at least for the one I was interested in. I was looking at a VS built Speedster with the dual carb and 1600 engine.

I read someone else's post here stating that their speedster doesn't go past 75mphs. Although I don't expect a Speedster to be a racer, not being able to go past 75 could actually be dangerous in a big city freeway. Imagine being in a tiny car going 65mph when you have huge semi(s) zipping past you at 85mph. Scary though!

Can anyone comment on this? I assume a bigger engine = more performance, but is this the answer to the problem? Do I just need to find one with a bigger engine? Thanks!!!

Hey Kevin
You might look into the gear ratio of the transaxle. Stock VW is about 4:11 but many VS's are equipped with a "freeway flier" 3:88 ratio that allows higher top speeds. The 3:88 ratio is perhaps the most common you will find in our replicars.

Mine is no rocket (1776 dual carb) but it will get up to roughly 100mph. Hard to say how fast really since the speedo only reads to 85.

It's a lot happier cruising at 70-75 though.

Even with a 1600 a Speedster should easily 85 or better. These are VERY light cars.

Bigger engines make the car go faster. A 1,600 cc engine, even with dual carbs is only about 60 HP, if that.

If the car is a good deal, then the stock engine can be modified to increase HP by installing bigger pistons/cylinders, longer crank, different cam, better cylinder heads etc.

Every upgrade makes more horsepower and more heat so the engine must be built of quality parts.

The 1776 engine as described above consists of only a piston/cylinder change from 85.5mm to 90.5mm's

I'm a 1641 (I think) dual carb and I hit 90 easily. And if I was going downhill with a wind in my back could hit 100. I can beat a Mazda3 off the line in a drag. Done it a few times....LOL..... Buhbye~

I have a Brazillian 1600 VW type 1 w/dual webers and a prostreet rancho trans. Runs fine on the freeway. I can keep with traffic and can run 85 if I want to. Traffic here is usually cruising at about 75 or so and I can run way from them if I don't pay attention to letting up a bit. Foot does end up on the floor a lot - ;>). I'm going with a 2332 in my coupe, but I really have no complaints with the 1600. Just takin a walk on the wilder side with the coupe.

Kevin, you're in luck.
Mine's for sale for comparable money, and it's a joyride. Check the classifieds here, under Hoopty.

Always the master of understatement, our Cory.

Some good comments here. The one I'm looking at is made by VS in 2001 and has the 3.88 transmission upgrade. It has very low miles, thus it is in very good shape. ...yet it doesn't go-go. I've read post regarding tire pressure and such, but is this "normal" for a new and upgraded speedster?

We'd all love bigger engines and some mods, but is it normal "out of the box"? Thanks!!

I wonder if a fair comparison would be to find a pal who has a similar (small four-banger) car of Brit or Italian origin from the 50s or 60s, and drive one of those, too. Then stack it up against a Beetle sedan or convertible ... and then go back to the Speedster and see how it feels.
It's probably not practical to compare 1960s or 1970s economy drivetrains to the muscle cars we expect to jump into and go fast. If you have the time, energy, effort and werewithall to do some comparison shopping, you'll at least know what 'normal' will feel like to you.
Hope that helps.

Alternatively, to get a feel for the kind of power, you could take a more modern Honda Civic (116hp?), load the trunk with cinder blocks and sand, and drive up a steep incline. That's comparable acceleration to my car (on flat land)... I have a CMC/FiberFab with a stock 1600 and a 901 tranny (not sure of the ratio).

Dual carbs may help you move a little faster.

I had a turbo Eagle Talon that ran 13 second quarter miles, and I found that I would need about 150hp in the Speedster for a comparable hp/weight ratio.

Mine is a fully automatic with a bone stock 1600. single carb. I have seen 95 a few times and it still gets 28 mpg even with the automatic.

It's not a very quick car. but its decent.

The only problems there are you stay up there long the heat starts to climb. Or you may see blue lights in your rear veiw. Nither is good

Kevin; I've heard that 3.88's are more appropriate for more powerful engines than the stock motor. Maybe in that case the car is underpowered. As mentioned before these cars are light; I'm guessing some upgrading (and not necessarily displacement but ported heads; better carbs, ratio rockers and better ignition and exhaust) could boost your performance to where you want.

Kevin -

Not sure where you're located - but try to find an SOC member close to your locale and arrange a look-see or ride in one of these cars. Here's a link that might help find someone close to you.

http://www.frappr.com/speedsterowners

I think a Speedster repo unable to reach 75mph is a rarity and has other issues besides engine size. I had a 62 VW 1200 40hp that could do 70-75 all day (at least until that little red oil light came on 2 seconds before the engine seized - just kidding)!

Good Luck in your search!

Just going to throw a couple of random thoughts out here regarding this point. First is that there is a difference between "fast" and "quick", at least in my mind. A "fast" car is one that accelerates in the neighborhood of 0-60 in under 6 seconds AND has a top-speed over 140. Further I expect a "fast" car to be pulling very hard over 100 mph as it journeys to its top speed.

A "quick" car does not have a high top speed or accelerates at high speed slowly (over 100 - sorta drags its wagon). But it provides very snappy acceleration at anything under 75 maybe 80 mph. In fact, in a stop-light grand prix, it often can dust all comers.

Weight has no effect on top speed. Top speed is a combination of horsepower, gearing and drag (air, tires etc). It is not influenced by weight. Salt-flat cars (top speed) are HEAVY. I've seen people fill the trunks with concrete.

That said, Speedster's are very light. They have brilliant weight distribution for stop-light grand prix's (weight behind the rear axle). Their gearing tends to be "short" which hugely effects their top speed. Couple short gearing with 40 or 60 hp, and you have limited top speed. Build a stouter engine, stretch the gearing out and you have more top-speed, but as you gain some "fast" you have to be careful not to lose your beloved "quick". A well built speedy engine with a well-geared transmission is gonna smack down big block Chevelles out of the stop lights and still hold highway speed.

But everything in life is a balance. Given legal speed limits, "fast" is nothing more than bragging rights. In the real world "quick" is what gets you merged into traffic, through the cones in an auto-cross and gives you great personal satisfaction when the punk in the rumbly V8 beside you gets handed his lunch!

angela (likes fast...)

"......when the punk in the rumbly V8 beside you gets handed his lunch!"

A few years back while we were in Key West we had a rental Kia Optima with the slap shift,( this car would fly) sure was fun to smoke da' kid in a 5.0 'stang right there in Duval Street:

Angela,you continually impress me !

Angela / Alan / et all:

I can just picture the HUGE SEG on your faces as you blow the doors off the unsuspecting water-pumper! Bwaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa!

The spyder really surprises them because they assume its a stock type 1 VW (because it is pretty quiet). They can't hear the exhaust note over their own loud cars... By the time they do hear it, its because I'm ahead, at full throttle, and leaving their very surprised hineys in the dust.

Nothing like gettin' smacked down by a soccer mommy in a home-made car!

angela

Soccer mommy. Riiiiight.

...you mean, one spyder-driving-ass-whuppin-mountain-bike-riding-torque-wrenching-too-cool-for-school-red-head-cabby-prepping mom!!

Well THANK YOU!! But lets face it, if you didn't know me I look like an awfully easy target.

angela

Hey Kevin,
Another factor in wringing out more top end is your exhaust system. I didn't see it mentioned in previous posts, but getting the right combination of flow with some back-pressure can make quite a bit of difference.

As Angela pointed out there is quick and there is fast (she no doubt learned that listening to John Madden) Now her rig is both as she has displacement and aerodynamics.

Our speedsters, referred to in its day as 'the brick' in matters aerodynamic, can be a little of each but quick is underated in an era where even trucks have a speedo that read to 140MPH

On the flip side - just what do you use 500 or 600 Hp for on public roads? Maybe those vehicles should come with a testosterone governor installed on the drivers side? Have I been reading too many Hot Rod magazines lately?

To repeat an earlier thread - it's a lot more fun to go fast in a slow car than to go slow in a fast car.

Txs to angela for pointing out that weight has almost nothing to do w/ top end speed, only how fast you get there.

Meanwhile, it's all about torque -- I like to be quick. The fellow here w/ the anemic 1600 under consideration for buying I think has a problem. Something not quite right w/ that set-up if it's a strain to do 75 mph. Carbs, timing, exhaust or worse. If that is all it will do, and it's not quick either, I'd be lookin' elsewhere.

PS: Can't think how it's going to happen, but I REALLY would like to meet that lady who thinks cars that can't jump out once they get to 100 mph are found wanting.

Kelly,
I get back to Virginia (where my company is based) about every 6-8 weeks. Had the privilege of visiting with Cory, Mr. Sartwell (both JR and SR) and seeing da Hoopty in real life. Even got lost on the way back from Sartwell's place... Called up Cory in tears - Cory where the hell am I? BAHAHAHAH!

Next time I'm back there, I think a bunch of us should get together - doesn't someone have a restaurant?

angela

angela,

That would be Mickey Donatello, in Wilmington DE, a bit of a ride from DC, but still East Coast. I haven't yet met Mickey, other than through the Forum here, but look forward to it. I'd be in for a ~local get together, no matter where.

Kelly, didn't you meet Mickey at Carlisle?

... so I got a little creative. (C'mon, it's only GASOLINE. What harm could it do when you mix it with a little air?)

First, a little mood music:
"Bet'chy'all didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle-player too ... I'd bet yer soul for a fiddle-a-gold that I react a hair fastre'n you ..."

Yup. I kept-a-turnin them-thar screws to three-and-a-half. The book said the Dell'Orto carburetor was strong enough to handle being turned out to four and one-quarter turns without spitting or backfiring and causing a catastrophe. I think "catastrophe" is a scaled term, in hindsight, but it worked out okay for me since I stopped at three-and-a-half. I also changed out the .060 idle jets for my wintertime .070s. I didn't consult the book before I did that.
This whole exercise started when I took the .060s out to clean them.
Vroooooomrattattatttatttattta (rev limiter noises at 6K). Then BRAAAAAAPapattattattattataBRAAAAP. Man, that was COOL. I had my hand on the linkage bar, making sure both were dialed in and that the harmonics weren't screwy, and I decided to drive the car that way for a couple blocks last night. Then I kept driving. Pretty soon, I was on the Interstate. Daggonne it, that little car FLIES.
I did hear the occasional pop. And the occasional hiss. As I got home, I smelled a little gasoline in the exhaust, and the newly-repaired fuel-ometer said that was a costly little 25-mile jaunt. I used 3.125 gallons of gas, by my calculations, in less than 25 minutes with a mix of city (careful) and highway (uh ...) driving. That's about eight mpg ... but the fun-quotient was pegged.

For the record, I have NEVER gotten performance like that out of my car.

We could even rent a Ferrari. I hear they only come in four-seaters.

In keeping with Kevin's original complaint in the thread here, I was standing over the back of my car yesterday with a book in my hand. I did some tweeking, based on my interpretation of this little book: http://www.fiatparts.com/carb.pdf -- and my insane curiosity.
Y'all don't want to try this, but believe me -- it was cool. And now I will fix it back to normal.

The book was busy telling me that I needed to run the Dells a little richer than I would Webers if I wanted to set my idle at 1,000 rpm. It recommended that the set screws be zeroed at the carb, and then turned three-quarters of a turn at first to see where the individual cylinders would die.
Cool. I can do that. Gordon said I'm an "educated consumer," and Wild Bill said I not only could, but SHOULD learn from my mistakes. Right-o. I'm on it.
Then it said to go two full turns out from there to richen them up. That's four set-screws at two turns a piece. And-a-half, and-a-one. And-a-half, and-a-two. Good. Three more times. Done. It ran like it was supposed to, and the exhaust was clear and not even a little gasoliney. ...

(more)

That cory.....always trying to go faster, just like a little kid ;>)

Angela; I don't have a restaurant, but we cook better than most of them.

Why not visit the Boston area sometime?? We might even be able to find the Mythical Subaru #2, the Infamous Bill Re's car.

Well, I guess I missed Mickey. I think he was there only a short time, and my natural introducer (the fireman) was REAL busy showing off his car to anyone who stopped by, so I guess he missed that opportunity. Might have seen Mickey, but did not get introduced, that I recall. Whatever. We will tie it together somewhere along the line, and if angela is the right excuse, then so be it.

Every infernal combustion engine ever made loves gas. more gas = more heat = more power. Pretty simple. On the other hand that sort of mileage on a 1600 lb car really is not going to work.