Oil coolers--What Berg says! m

Rusty - There is a company called Setrab that makes pretty well know oil cooler kits with or wthout Fans depending on the situation. Go to Aircooled.net and look up the VW application, it should work for our repiclas. There are some guys on this site that have them installed and seem to like them. I am still doing more research but most applications seem to lean to mounting them on the driver side rear wheelwel...it's a pretty tight spot but will catch air and help the cooling process. They recommend using it on a full-flow case with an oil filter.

The Seatrab unit is great---Mine is a single fan pack with a thermostat--the unit is mounted  inside the left rear wheel well and I have never seen my oil as hot as  200 degrees even in the hottest summer weather.   It almost always stays at 185.

 

Great unit and really does the job--of course the DTM cooling ststem helps a lot too.

 

I see so many posts about hot running air cooled engines and highly recommend the Seatrab products.

Here is a Setrab Engine oil cooler setup that I think would work well in the rear wheelwel. it also comes with installation instructions. You would probably want to add the thermal switch, I think it starts the fan running when oil temp reaches around 200 degrees. You would also need two mounting brackets and a relay to add it to your circuit. Here is the Link for this model: http://www.setrabusa.com/produ...cks/fp625/index.html
Cheers - Dutch

Good feedback Jack, thanks. What is the DTM system, is that another oil cooling system Vendor?

Bruce, Bill et al,

 

To use a manometer or magnehelic gauge, the inlet hose measuring pressure should be taped to the body so that the open end of the tube is at right angles to the direction of the airflow.  I would think if you didn't know the direction of air flow, tape it facing forward, then drive and measure.  Then tape it 90 degrees off the first direction, drive and measure, etc.  Air flow across the outside of a hood on a front engine car is a no brainer.  In a wheel well, you may have to place the tube end in different positions, then call Stephen Hawking for an interpretation. 

 

I printed out a great series of articles by Autospeed on Undertrays, Spoiler & Bonnet Vents, parts 1-3, found at www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=113178  

 

I keep reading it over, and I think some may finally be sticking.

Rusty - Here is another option from Jack Raby if you have a spare $569 buckaroos laying around: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/R...TM-11001-p/11001.htm

I bought my VS on an Ebay bidding war knowing virtually nothing about the published specs and details...except it was black (of course!) An emotional driven purchase.

But I was fortunate in that it was well sorted, cared for, and with upgrades that I didn't recognize as such at the time. 

 

It arrived with two Setrab fan driven oil coolers tucked under both rear fenders. I don't recall oil temperatures ever topping 200 degrees.

The Setrab Unit is compact enough to mount horizontally along the frame in front of the left rear tire.  That is where I've seen several of them mounted and it is where I plan to mount mine.

 

The Setrab can be ordered with a thermo-switch to automatically turn on the fan.  There are two versions; one turns the fan on when the oil hits 180 and the other when the oil hits 190 degrees.  It has been suggested to me to use the 180 degree thermo-switch. 

Carl---I bought mine a lot like that too but didn't get close to scoring a sorted car like you did.  My car was 250 miles away and I found it on ebay.  I knew nothing except I loved the look of that Speedster!  I didn't test drive it except around the circle in front of the Monroe, LA airport and you can't tell much going 25 MPH. Sadly I had no knowledge of this site and the wonderful folks who so willingly share knowledge.

 

The car had 600 miles on it and was an almost brand new Vintage.  I couldn't wait to peel off 270 $100 dollar bills and roll outta there ---the guy had requested cash and after three miles driving towards home I understood him selling it with almost no miles on the car!  His stated reason for dumping it was bogus and the real reason was that it drove just awful.

 

The front end was so out of alignment and the wheels were so out of balance that I had to keep it it under 35 MPH all the way home---the but I had a terminal case of the madness and was thrilled to have the car, warts and all.

 

After 7 rewarding years and another $17,000 to get it where it is today and 44,000 miles including  one flawless West Coast round trip and 8 Carlisle events (maybe 7 ??) and three Tail Of the Dragon/Asheville events, to me it is everything I'll ever want in a Speedster replica.  The two dozen trophies and 3 best of show awards in the garage says that others like it too!  At carlisle with so many really breathtaking Speedsters and Spyders, It's no great shakes in the looks department, but as they say, "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"!

 

 It is competitive with even some Suby powered cars, having dynoed at 142 MPH.  It was a long but fun journey and worth all the effort it took to get it where it is today.  

 Folks who find the SOC for buying advice will be miles ahead of where I was when the madness first got under my skin. Carl yoyu were a lot smarter than I was.  That was proven when I didn't stay in CT where you are!

 

 

I have a Setrab for sale. See "Parting Out Natalie" in classifieds.

> On Jul 22, 2015, at 9:32 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I'm interested. PM sent.

Someone should jump on this! 

I sent Tom a PM so I'm hoping it's a good deal.  Was lining up a new purchase but if Tom's is a good deal I'll have to go for it instead.

Here is what I did today to get more air into engine compartment. At this years Carlisle auction I picked two  4 inch dia polypropylene boat deck plates made by Viking Marine. I used these because they have screw in covers to keep the rain out (pictures below) I only had time to install one side so I haven't tested it yet. Also I haven't checked the accuracy of my add on oil temp gauge which I attached to the rear oil pressure relief. I will probably move it up to the top pickup as Gordon suggested. I will let everyone know the results when I finish.

 

Here's my dual pack with fans.  Probably overkill, but better to be safe than sorry.  I've been at the sorry end of a hot engine before and it wasn't a nice place to be.

 

 

Setrab fan pack, rubber mounted, thermostatically controlled, Mocal sandwich oil thermostat, S/S braided teflon hoses. Installed this set up about 10 or 12 years ago. Do it right, do it once.

 

 

Mine is similar to the one above except mine is mounted in front of the rear tire, not be hind it.

I've driven Joel's car, and run with him for a few days.

 

I've learned to listen to what he says. The dude NEVER has to do something twice.

I forgot Tom wasn't letting anything go until Natalie has been upgraded. My timeline is shorter than that so if someone else needs/wants Setrab go for it.

 

Thanks Tom.

I don't have the fans on mine---just the seatrab radiator---works beautifully ---never saw 200 degrees.

I have the thermostatically controlled fan. Part of the package I'm selling.

> On Jul 23, 2015, at 12:31 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Jim kelly

 

Thank you for the article on manometer readings for pressure differentials in air flow over a hood. I'm just going to tape my manometer tubes on down there in different positions and see what happens....Bruce

I have but a peripheral understanding of how a manometer works...but Googling the subject I've learned it's such a simple pressure measuring devise and that it can be veeery inexpensively fabricated as a DIY item. 

A manometer is really simple as an abstract principle.  Fabricate a u-shaped, clear hose or pipe.  Partially fill it with colored liquid so that the water levels become evident.  Attach the ends of the clear pipe to a high and low pressure area with additional tubing.  If there is a pressure difference, the liquid in the tube will shift, now having a high and a low side, no longer the same as they were before attaching the tub.  The difference in height between the high and low ends of the liquid is measured in inches.  The only caveat for a manometer is that the angle needs to remain the same when taking different measurements, i.e., if it's mounted or held vertically for one measurement, keep it vertical for all measurements.

 

Last week, I couldn't spell scientist.  Now I be one.

Hi Gordon,

I took your advice and moved my oil temp sensor  from the crankcase to the outlet by the dist(where Vintage puts their sensor for their unreadable gauge) Yesterday I put a 4 inch round hole in the right inner fender.What a difference . Today the ambient temp was 80 degrees F. and i drove at least 40 miles at speeds up to 80 mph-mainly in the 65- 70 range and the temp gauge never went over 200 degrees. Thanks for your advice-from your explaination I don't have to worry anymore.

By the way-Thermodynamics made me decide not to be an engineer and I became a dentist instead.

Hope to see you at Limerock for Vintage racing.

Joel

Joel - When you moved the temp sensor to the outlet by the distributor, did you have to ad an adapter to keep the pressure sensor there as well? Thanks!

Pretty clever idea using boathull covers, I have some on both of my kayaks to close off storage compartments. One question though: I always heard that you want to completely seal off the engine compartment to keep hot air out. Having said that however, the location where you put the hole would appear to bring cool air in.

Dutch,

 

You do need a good seal on the bottom engine tin, in order to separate the bottom, hot half of the engine from the cooler top half.  However, the top half of the engine, which includes firewall and deck lid, needs to let air in from somewhere.  Much of our discussions evolve around the correct placement and function of vents, louvers, etc.  A perfectly sealed engine compartment wouldn't allow the necessary air to enter the engine compartment to support combustion and aid with cooling.

Dutch,

My 2006 Vintage came with the adaptor for oil temp and pressure.However their in dash temp gauge is unreadable so I added oil temp and CHT VDO gauges below the dashboard. Most of the VW parts places on line carry this part.

In order to determine which connection to use turn on the ignition and pull a wire.When one of the idiot lights goes off you have the oil pressure conn. Use the other terminal for the temp gauge.

Joel

Hi Carl

Manometers are simple, easy to use and make. Also very accurate ! Most vacuum gauges are calibrated to one. As mentioned it's important to keep them vertical for all your tests though. If you need to get even more finite measurements. Say less than one inch H2O you can tilt your manometer at an exact 30 degree angle. Your 1 inch deflection now becomes 1/2" value. Just remember to use the same position for all your measurements. I'm going to test the area in front of the rear wheels tomorrow with two manometers. Should be interesting, or inconclusive. Magnehelic gauges are available on e-bay used. They are pretty accurate vacuum/pressure gauges and many tech shops use them instead. Also any SCUBA Dive Shop which do their own regulator repairs use these gauges and know where to buy them as well.

Dwyer makes a slack tube manometer for about 50$ and I think they sell the Magnehelic gauges. A deflection of 1 to 3 inches is a good choice for the gauge and 12 inches on the slack tube..........Bruce

I've got several Dwyer magnahelics in various ranges. I'm not sure they are of any value for what we want to observe. There's a lot of turbulence around a car, and which direction is perpendicular to airflow is anybody's guess really.

 

Smoke. Smoke is what we need to answer the questions people have regarding airflow. A common method of checking heat exchangers in furnaces is to do a "smoke test" with one of these:

They burn for about 30 seconds and make a lot of smoke, but don't leave a residue, etc.

 

I think it would be revealing to put one in the engine compartment, and take off down the road at speed. I would bet a donut not one bit of smoke would come out the engine grill, but a whole lot would come out the bottom of the engine.

 

I think I'll try it when I get a bit of time.

Stan - Don't forget to have someone nearby making a video of it - especially the part where on-lookers and the local fire department all come rushing to help put out the engine fire.  

Stan has a neat idea...although 30 seconds of smoke is a pretty tight time frame to get valid feedback.

 

I'd select a straight stretch of trafficless (is that a word?) road...light that fuse in an idling engine, and then take off like a dragster!...Record the testing results on video by someone trailing you (if they can keep up!)

 

 

I say put the smoke bomb in the engine compartment with an electronic igniter attached to the fuse, similar to what they use in model rocketry, get up to speed and have your right-seater activate the fuse and record away.  That way you waste no time in getting up to speed.  You could also set up more than one smoke bomb and fuse and record the results at different speeds.

The idea of smoke/fire in the engine compartment sounds like the last thing I want.

 

Stan started it!  We're just trying to help. There's nothing quite like a crazy idea being encouraged by your crazy friends. 

 

I like the idea though, if it can be done safely.  I mean we're all professionals.....right??

Can't you just imagine the conversation with the insurance adjuster?

 

"Uh, yeah. I was um, on my way to a show, when all of the sudden..."

I really like this idea. Any link to the "electronic ignitor" for the fuse?

 

Stan,

 

Because this is only a 30 second burn you would need to reach freeway speed, then hold onto someone's legs while they slide down the rear of the car to throw the smoke bomb into the engine compartment!

 

One would also need to have someone driving behind taking video then upload to youtube. This would be entertaining as well as of interest scientifically.

Superior Smoke makes a model with an electronic ignitor.

 

When I was a certified juvenile delinquent, oh those many decades ago, this would have been a classic project: OK, Stan, you bring the smoke.  Bobby, you bring the ignitor.  The rest of you guys each bring a cooler of cold beer, and we'll meet out at the old race track on Sunday for some serious scientific discombobulation . . .