Oil Filter Back Pressure

Has anyone come across this problem? I doing a oil & filter change this weekend and all was going well and then booooom. The engine started to shake and knock, I thought what was that and my son looked under the car and their was oil all over the place. Turned motor off and looked under neath where the oil filter was located and noticed that the oil filter had broken at the seam and bottom of it was rounded out. Filter was a Frahm WH8a. Parts store gave me another one and 4 quarts of oil. Placed that one in the car, no explosion but it did leak at the filter mount. Turned motor off and checked filter and it was loose, retighted, started motor and ran for about 1min., turned motor off and filter was loose again. I said forget it, put old filter back on and no problems with the old one. Went back to parts store and they said " Alot of the new filters come with some sort of check valve in them, which maybe letting oil into the filter but not out to the motor. HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THIS!!!!

Gabe

Did you replumb change or add any oil lines or oil routing? I've seen this happen when the oil filter gets the oil pressure before oil pressure relieve valve relieves.
Or maybe the oil pressure relief valve is stuck. That would be pretty rare.

Greg B

Ahhh ..."Lake J.R. Ewing" I've been there !

Fram WH8A is a standard filter their HP 1 is a high pressure filter, others may and will go south

Alan

Ditto what Alan says....

I must agree with Alan. Use the Fram hp1. I used them on a vw drag
car (270+)hp. I never experienced an oil down , but I saw many a
vw racer blow apart lesser stock type filters of all makes
The HP1 is the way to go!
Jim

I wouldn't recommend ANY Fram filter; they have cheapened all of their products over the years. Purolator or one of the proprietary oil filters would be a better choice.

What about K & N HP3001?

Fram HP 1 filter...

It has and still is highly recommended with the racing crowd.
We ran the HP 1 on a 7.201 second / 189 mph "B" Econo dragster with a 700 + HP normally aspirated small block for three race seasons.

I happened accross a website of a guy that had charts of internal components in current popular oil filters.
Seems he was a club racer type fellow, and decided to cut open his filters after using them, just to see what's inside.
Cardboard, is one of the materials he listed.
The point was that even the brands he was familiar with and had been using, got more and more cheaper materials used inside.
So, it may not be a bad idea to check once in awhile to see if the filters you're using are what you expected.

Afterthough...
I saw a NASCAR type interview, that had filters as the topic. The mechanic in the interview showed how he uses what looked like a fine fine flat screen disc that looked like it just fit inside the rubber O ring of the filter.
His explanation was that it gives him a chance to see anything that shouldn't be there and if something goes away in the motor, it collects some of the debris and saves other components in the engine from getting destroyed.


Greg B

Gabriel:

Wix has a high pressure filter that's supposed to be equivalent to the Fram HP-1. I have not used one yet, but I had heard the same thing that George Brown mentioned at a local Speed Shop when I was looking for a source for oil cooler hoses and got talking about filters. They didn't think too much of Fram there, either.

The reason your filter is ballooning and rupturing, is that the VW oil pump is capable of putting out obver 300 pounds of pressure, especially if the oil is thick and cold. Why so high? Well, because the filter is in the oil route BEFORE it reaches the pressure regulating valve in the case. This pressure can be held at 125 pounds if you get a Berg pressure regulating oil pump cover, but that's the only way I know of. Fram HP-1 filters, and others equivalent, were designed for racing applications where they run much higher oil pressure, so that filter can take it. Standard Fram filters are only designed for 80 pounds (or less) so they simply blow up and create "Lake Ewing" under your car.

George: Wasn't there some sort of a replaceable-element filter that could handle the higher pressure?? I remember something like "Oberg", but I'm not sure, nor am I aware of a source, but that would be another alternative. MIght be neat, too, for inspecting the oil (and any particles) in the element when changing filters, just to see what's going on.....

Gordon
One of the "Speedstah Guys" from Rhode Island

Gordon,

actually my old filter that was on the car was Wix. I did place the old one back on the car, but I will put a new one in the car again. Thanks all for the valuable info.

Gabe

"This pressure can be held at 125 pounds if you get a Berg pressure regulating oil pump cover."

What Gordon said, these pump covers are super strong, well made and work great. We've got them on the two 'drag" motors. Cheap and easy to install and they actually work. You can always find them on TheSamba and wonderful prices.

As long as the pressure is building in the filter position rather than within the in-fan shroud cooler, it's a relatively easy fix.

Luck.

I've been there. 30mm gear pump in one of my early Bajas. Had to be careful till the oil warmed up. I'm not sure of the physics but I changed to a shorter filter and I don't remember it ever happening again. Of course I still tried to take it easy till it warm-up.

Gordos correct again. The Oberg is a reuseable and now a vintage type of thing, or at least I'm not aware of any current sources.

In our New England neighborhood, Jim at Vintage Volkswagen had a few the last time I spoke with him.(can be found at www.vintagevolkswagen.com)

He's usually got stuff on the Samba, if your not familiar with that it's www.thesamba.com and search for Oberg.

Boston Bob E.

Oberg filter source:

www.obergraceproducts.com

They manufacture a new round style, but still offer the "vintage" flat square style as well. They also have a cool filter selection, depending on how severe your end use is. I'm converting my Oberg to a fuel filter using their micro screen specially designed for fuel/gasoline.

Mr. Boston is correctamundo, you can pick up the filter housing on TheSamba for very short money, compared to a new one from the manufacturer. All you'll need is to clean or replace the screen and pick up some AN fittings/barbs and lines to/from your oil pump cover or block.

Luck!

0berg is the way to go, or none. you guys seem to change your oil pretty often, if
chunks that big are floating around you have bigger issues.

Motorcraft(Ford) FL-1HP, Wix 51515R, Napa(made by Wix) 1515R. These filters are for racing applications, have superior filter material and are supposed to withstand burst pressure of up to 400PSI.

Good Luck, Have Fun
Joel

Racing oil filters are not the best for street applications. Race motors are expected to be torn down regularly, cleaned and checked for ware. They often run with slightly larger clearances and require a bit more oil flow. Filtering is not the primary concern since the oil, engine and filter are expected to be clean at the start of the event. Proper flow is critical. To increase flow the by pass vales in the filters are usually set at a lower differential pressure. The HP1 is about 10psi. So on cold starts or higher flow/rpm situations most of the oil doesn

But if you use a filter that is too fine, that will cause back-pressure and can starve the engine for oil, or too much by-pass that results in unfiltered oil.

As previously mentioned Obergs are still available; I believe they have a choice of two different screen mesh sizes.

Re the Gene Berg oil pump cover with built in pressure regulator - I believe these recirculate excess pressurized oil back to the pump's pickup side. HOWEVER - the pressure relief valve is a spring loaded ball type, and if a small piece of crud keeps the ball from seating under normal operation the engine can lose oil pressure and the crank bearings would soon fail. I've heard of it happening...

You're right, George, and the Berg instructions that came with my full flow kit mentioned that at least three times.
They also mentioned, several times, NOT to use any teflon tape on any of the fittings, because it (the tape) could deteriorate, flake off and little bits could end up contaminating that valve, holding it open and you would lose oil pressure. They recommend a Locktite thread sealant that I couldn't find, so I used a different Locktite product recommended for high pressure seals and it seems to have worked well.

Kinda scary, overall, but I've not (yet) had any trouble with my regulator cover, and the benefits seem to outweigh the fears. Even so, I've wired one of those BIG red lights on my multi-gauge to come on with my low oil pressure light, just to get my attention!!

gn

I've done my research. A Motorcraft FL-1HP fits my needs,
is readily available and is not cost prohibitive.

Hell, The rest of my old car fleet are Fords. What else would I use?

Your absolutely rught George. Had one stick on a Triumph Tr3 when I was a kid. Sat. night, hot date, cruise into town and oops no oil pressure. Coast to gas station, whip out pocket tool kit (4" crescent wrench), disassemble, clean and all's well. Lucked out for once in my life. It pays, or saves, to watch you gauges

www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=161409

I got your Oberg right here . . . swinging!

NO thanks......got one here in Tiverton for $40 and the guy delivered it to the house this evening. Gonna have to get at least one, maybe two new AN hoses to fit it, but that's cheap, too.

BTW: I've checked several different sites today, and the going price is somewhere around $50 - $75. I'll bet there'll be a few at Carlisle, too, for way under a "C" note.

gn

Nice score Gordon!

I picked mine up at the swap meet at the Big E this year. $60(?) with the AN fittings and lines, but the lines are kind of short . . . but the fittings are fine.

Still, not too bad. That cool swap meet at the former Great Woods is coming up son as well. Bound to be some there if anyone's still looking.

TC: Send me an email with more info on the Tweeter Center swap meet - might just get over there.

Any others coming up that you've heard about?

gn

Hey Gordon,

Here you go:

www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/events.detail/id/62710/eventid/62710

May 14 - 15

Much Grass.....gn

BTW: That Ty-rods meet at Stafford Speedway used to be HUGE, but I don't remember seeing much foreign iron there - mostly American stuff. A much better source for Foreign stuff was up in Amherst, NH, but I can't remember when they hold their flea market (third Sunday of the month??)

"What about K & N HP3001?"

If I recall correctly, that is the K&N filter I had on my IM. Seemed to work well. I had previously used the Fram HP1 filter, which I went to after blowing a couple of filters on start up.

Well took the speedy out on a run to Carlsbad CA with my wife on Saturday, about 150 mile round trip and the car ran well. I guess all is well with the engine. I sure am glad! I stayed with the WIX filter, I don't want this to happen again. Well see ya all an Knott's!!

Gabe

Yup.....but bring along a spare Wix in your spares kit - just in case!

gn