Skip to main content

Closed24 replies

Oil leak ideas

Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
I've been chasing an oil leak on the top left of my engine since I got the car, and have just about run out of ideas. First, I installed a fancy breather setup to reduce case pressure. It looks goood, annd is probably advisable, but it didn't help the leak.

After looking closely, I was conviced tha ot either had to be around the distributor or the oil sending unit. When I had my local VW guru put in some new ball joints (torn rubber boots on 3 at 4800 miles!), I had him check out the dirstibutor. Lo and behold, the O-ring was shrunken and hard as a rock. This is a new 009, but could have been sitting on the shelf for months or years even. That helped, but didn't solve the leak.

Next step was to remove the oil sending unit and put thread sealer on it. The body of the sending unit already had some, but the sender (don't know it pressure or temp) screwed into the side did not. After doing that and letting the car sit for a while, I took it for a ride. Still leaking. I had carefully reinstalled the unit into the case tightly, but not too tight as I obviously didn't want to strip out the threads in the case. I rotated it 1/2 turn further than it had been so that I could get it at a more serviceable angle. I'm pretty sure that I didn't strip the threads, although I suppose it's possible. It doesn't feel loose at all, so I'll keep my fingeres crossed.

Any ideas? The oils seems to come out at some pressure, because it's all over the area, including sprayed (apparently) up onto the tin over the left side cylinders. What does he temperature reach in that area? I was wondering if I could wrap the sender in paper towels or a shop rag to see if that's where the oil is coming from. This is not a huge oil leak, but it makes it messy in there, and it annoys my sense of neatness. As far as I can tell, it really doesn't affect oil level.

Ok, all you smart folks, can ya he'p a brutha out here?

Oh yeah - When reinstalling the sender, I accidentaly broke one of the tabs on one of the distributor cap clips. It still works, but my confidence level is a bit lower. Can these be sourced fairly easily?

Formerly 2006 Beck Speedster (Carlisle build car), 1964 Beck Super Coupe

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
I've been chasing an oil leak on the top left of my engine since I got the car, and have just about run out of ideas. First, I installed a fancy breather setup to reduce case pressure. It looks goood, annd is probably advisable, but it didn't help the leak.

After looking closely, I was conviced tha ot either had to be around the distributor or the oil sending unit. When I had my local VW guru put in some new ball joints (torn rubber boots on 3 at 4800 miles!), I had him check out the dirstibutor. Lo and behold, the O-ring was shrunken and hard as a rock. This is a new 009, but could have been sitting on the shelf for months or years even. That helped, but didn't solve the leak.

Next step was to remove the oil sending unit and put thread sealer on it. The body of the sending unit already had some, but the sender (don't know it pressure or temp) screwed into the side did not. After doing that and letting the car sit for a while, I took it for a ride. Still leaking. I had carefully reinstalled the unit into the case tightly, but not too tight as I obviously didn't want to strip out the threads in the case. I rotated it 1/2 turn further than it had been so that I could get it at a more serviceable angle. I'm pretty sure that I didn't strip the threads, although I suppose it's possible. It doesn't feel loose at all, so I'll keep my fingeres crossed.

Any ideas? The oils seems to come out at some pressure, because it's all over the area, including sprayed (apparently) up onto the tin over the left side cylinders. What does he temperature reach in that area? I was wondering if I could wrap the sender in paper towels or a shop rag to see if that's where the oil is coming from. This is not a huge oil leak, but it makes it messy in there, and it annoys my sense of neatness. As far as I can tell, it really doesn't affect oil level.

Ok, all you smart folks, can ya he'p a brutha out here?

Oh yeah - When reinstalling the sender, I accidentaly broke one of the tabs on one of the distributor cap clips. It still works, but my confidence level is a bit lower. Can these be sourced fairly easily?
FM Former Member
A couple of things.

The distributor grommet hardens and shrinks with heat, not necessarily age. Make sure that you aren't running the engine too hot. There isn't too much change that the distributor hole would spit oil, the distributor drive is a tight fit at the bottom, the shaft is a tight fit in the hole and the upper collar and clamp all do a good job on their own, even with NO grommet installed, of sealing everything up.

The oil sending switch shouldn't have any sealant on it at all, ever. It's a tapered thread and seals itself well. If it ever leaks, the block threads are too worn or the unit needs replacing.

It sounds like you might need new oil cooler gaskets or a new cooler itself. If you're running a remote cooler, you'll need to check the seals/hoses/fittings on the by-pass adapter. Either way, you'll need to remove the fan shroud and generator, head tin, carb/intake, some linkage and the other stuff in the way.

Easy fix, but it'll take time.

HOPEFULLY, it isn't the cooler or seals, but I can't think of anything else right now that it could be.

Luck ! !

Oh, take a photo of the broken distributor hold-down clip and I'll send you one to replace it. There are two types, just wanna be sure to send you the right one, OK?
tmpusfugittmpusfugit
One of my engines had the bad habit of oiling down the front of the engine some fair amount. I chased it for sometime, I had added breather tubes to both valve covers as well as one off the oil fill tube to the bulkhead mounted foam filled breather box. Ultimately I solved more than 90% of the problem by fitting a sand seal to the front of the crank. I was expecting the crank pulley to throw oil centrificaly all over the place if the front was leaking. Not the case at all, it ran down the block and gave me fits for sometime, looking like the oil sender, the distributor, the full flow fitting, the oil pump etc etc...only after sealing and resealing all the above, and the cooler connections did the light bulb go on regarding the complete lack of a seal on a Type I engine at the cranshaft pulley. A $25 Bugpack press in sand seal did the job well....please note it will require a "sand seal" crank pulley also.....
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
TC - I've had no indication that the engine is running hot. Most of the time the temp gauge doesn't even make it up to half way - assuming it can be trusted. As for the cooler idea, I do have a remote cooler as well as the internal one in the doghouse. The remote cooler lines are nowhere near the leakage, and I've checked them anyway, so I can eliminate that. My first thought last fall was that it was the internal cooler, so I removed the doghouse only to find everything in there clean and dry. You're right, it's not tough to work on once you get to it, but getting to it is a bear.

At this point I'm thinking that your statement of "The oil sending switch shouldn't have any sealant on it at all, ever. It's a tapered thread and seals itself well. If it ever leaks, the block threads are too worn or the unit needs replacing." Looks the most likely. I'm tempted to go ahead and replace the unit, but it sure looked nice and new when I had it out. The engine's only got ~5000 miles on it, so I'm worried about the block, although I don't know what could be done about it.

What about wrapping it in something to verify that itt's where the oil is coming from?
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
UPDATE - After taking the car for a ride, I took the following pictures I also checked with a paper towel around the sending unit and found no trace of leakage. From the pictures it almost looks as if it's leaking from around that nut holding the halves of the case together. It also looks kind of like it could be from under the shroud, lending credence to TC's theory. It's always looke that way and it was bone dry inside when I checked it last year. I may have to tear it down again, just to eliminate that possibility.

Once again, any ideas?
E ESFinWilton
Hey Lane
After I installed my CB Perf. 2110 early this Spring I was baffled by an oil leak in the vicinity of the oil temp/pressure sending units. I r and r both only to find that the oil was actually dripping from a breather hole at the base of the 009's alum. body (not the shaft). CB had warned me that if the motor had too much oil in it, it would get out somewhere for sure. While they advised to not run with the level any higher than a half a qt. low on the stick, I figured too much oil is better than too little. Later I found that my leak dies up ONLY if the stick reads 2/3rds low. Nothing, not a drop anywhere!
I don't know your motor's specs, so bear in mind that mine has a deep sump, external cooler and filter so oil capacity is not a big issue. Since then, I have added under dash gages that show that I run cool with plenty of oil pressure even on 100* days.
Hope this helps Amigo!
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
Ernie: That sounds exactly like it!!! I've always had problems judging the correct oil level since I have the remote cooler and filter. Carey tells me I should have about 6 quarts in it, but I don't think the system drains completely, so I'll bet it's been overfilled at every oil change. I'll look into that possibility. Thanks!!

Dale: Damn good question! I have no way of knowing my oil level for sure. That's a real pain, and I hope to find a way to remedy it.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Dale: That's a damn good question, especially if you've added an after-market deep (or semi-deep) sump). I always figured that if you were using a stock VW 1600 dipstick, then THAT would tell you what the proper oil level was supposed to be, regardless of what you had for an additional sump, as the engine is expecting a certain amount of oil splash from the crank contacting the dept of the oil. Can't figure why that would NOT be the case, but what do others think? Is this really too high?

gn
E ESFinWilton
Ya know, if we weren't wise guys foolin' around with custom applications we wouldn't have these problems.
As the friendly cop told me years (make that decades) ago: "Kid, when you choose to play, your gonna have to PAY". Then he took me to jail.
...Somehow, I still like to play....
Dale.. Imagine how many dipstick to sump, and or, specific custom application combinations are possible out there.
Bottom line: I think that we are pretty much "on our own".
WildBillWildBill
Toyed with this some time ago. Going back to basics, the Bentley manual calls for 5.3 pints for a stock motor with just a screen, no filter; about 2.5 qts.

Also states the oil level is to be kept between the lower and upper mark. Upper mark is full with engine at rest.(i.e. stock motor)

All the different add-ons we have complicates the equation. Say add a 1/2 qt. for a filter and another 1/2 qt. for the cooler and lines and were up to only 3.5 qts. If ya got a 1.5 qt.deep sump you're up to 5 qts. filter included.

If you dump 5 qts. in at an oil change, it's gonna read really high on the stick at 1st.

I'm with Gordon in that a stock dipstick should still be a good measure with regards to oil splash etc.

Many of us have been taught to read the stick after the engine has sat for awhile. But if we do that any drain back from coolers etc. fools us into thinking it's too full.

I think we need to do the opposite and check it soon after stopping the motor for a more realistic operating level and do any adjusting of the level from there, keeping it between the lines on the stick.

Starting from scratch with a fresh filter put in say 3.5 qts., warm it up good so oil gets to any coolers and stop it and check it. Add oil in 1/2 qt increments to get it towards the top line. You may have to repeat the starting and stopping and adding a couple of times to dial it in on the stick. Just keep track of how much you've added and you'll know just how much you'll need at subsequent oil changes.

Making any sense here? If not...nevermind! It's late and I'm spent right now.
Nighty-Nite

Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
No, you're making sense, but don't forget that the cooler may not (probably won't) drain down so it shouldn't change the level on the dipstick.

Before I added my external cooler and filter I usually added about 3.5 qts. with an oil change (I have a 1-qt. added sump, mostly for the additional resevoir it provides).

When I did the full flow conversion, I found that the cooler and hoses took just about a quart to pre-fill everything, and the HP-1 filter takes another 1/2 qt. or so. When all is said and done, it takes me 4.75 qts. to get up to the top line on my dipstick, and I always pre-fill the filter before I spin it on. Then, it doesn't matter if I check it 1 minute or 20 minutes after running the engine, it's the same height on the dipstick.

Having done all this, I don't think I have anything weeping out of the hole at the distributor base, but haven't noticed anything that would make me look, either.

Lane: You might try draining out a half qt. or so to get down between the fill marks and see what happens with your wetness, or buzz on over to a VW mechanic and try comparing a few, random dipsticks to see how the marks versus the stop at the top of the stick compare to yours. THAT might be a revelation in itself!!
FM Former Member
On engines with oil attachments, (coolers, filters, deep sump, etc) I've always checked oil level with a warm engine running at about 1500 RPM's.

By doing that, you know that oil is circulating throughout the system, and you're getting a relatively true reading of the oil in the sump, not oil that has drained back into the sump.

Never had blow by or leaks from this method.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
All this was discussed quite some time ago, when someone told me I was crazy for thinking that the oil cooler would not drain down when the engine is turned off.

It will not drain down.

YES! You do not change all of the oil in your engine when you change the oil.

YES! That's OK.

Why? Because if you have an external cooler you probably have an external FILTER as well, and that filter will capture 20 times more crud than that VW original, semi-useless, screen strainer-thingie ever thought of capturing (Those screen stainers were good for capturing broken cam gear teeth and the occasional leaf or pine needle, and that's about it).
Plus, most people on here change their oil every 3000 miles or less, so the stuff that's in there, while it discolors a bit due to carbon scraped off the cylinder walls by the rings, in less than 12,000 miles it probably never loses its "Slipperyness" so it's OK to just let it mix with the new oil being added.

so, in the words of Tony Soprano; "Forgetaboudit"!
FM Former Member
" . . . here's the picture of the broken distributor clip."

That's a bogus clip off of a repro 009. CRAP! I'll send you a pair of clips from a Bosch SVA. They're all black (without the "soon to corrode" junk gold anodizing) just replace the clip and base on each side (two simple screws) and done.

Lemme know your address and I'll pop them into an envelope for you ASAP.
FM Former Member
Although I don't want to get into an agruement regarding oil drain back, I have to disagree with Gordon and anyone else that feels that an external cooler will not drain back into the sump. Depending on where the cooler is mounted, it will either drain back slowly, not drain back (if it's lower than the sump) or drain back rapidly.

If the cooler is above the sump oil level line then it will drain back unless there is a check valve in the lines. If an external cooler is the sole oil cooler then it's probably running from the in-out ports on top of the engine where the factory oil cooler is mounted. If your engine is a full flow then it's either before or after the filter. In any of these cases, liquid will sucumb to gravity and will eventually drain back into the sump.

If you do your oil change properly, that is, start your engine, warm it up then drain the oil, you'll probably not get all of the oil to drain from the cooler depending on it's relative position.
As was stated, that old oil won't cause any problems. (most noticeable on Porsche's with a fender mounted external trombone oil coolers)
FM Former Member
Update:

I went through my "Box-O-Distributors" and found an exact replacement clip for the one that you broke. It came off of a real Bosch 009 so it ought to last forever. It's be an easy replacement. I just hit it with a little semi-gloss black, and I'll send it off tomorrow.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Larry's right, and I suppose I should have thought about the fact that ten different cars with external coolers probably have eight different coolers in them in ten different locations with ten different variations on where the hoses are run. Just the nature of the custom car beast, I guess.

Given that, then the safest way to measure oil level would be when it's running, but I've never had a lot of luck determining what the level is when it's getting splashed all around inside the case.

Any good ideas on making this fool-proof?? What do you look for?

BTW: I have a DeRale cooler mounted in the left rear fenderwell. It's positioned such that the hoses connect horizontally on the front of the cooler (toward the nose of the car) at the top (in) and bottom (out). The entire cooler is above the top of the engine case. The case is full flowed, pushing oil out of the pump cover (above the sump) through the filter, the cooler and back into the case above the pump into the oil gallery (where Berg tells you to put the fitting).

There are no check valves, nor is there a thermostatic flow diverter in the circuit (although there is a thermostatic fan switch). It does not drain down when the engine's not running. You can see it here: http://www.speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=349
Post Content
Remove This Ad

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×

Access to this requires a premium membership.

Supporting Member

Please help keep us running!

Supporting members have donated about $4.00 a month ($49.00 US per year) paid annually.

  • Priority support
  • Removal of inter-page (between thread) advertisements.
  • Access to Build Manuals
  • Access to Knowledge Base
  • Access to Supporting Members events.
  • Access to Leveraged Group Buying from site Merchants.

AUTO RENEW: You membership will auto-renew after 12 months. If you prefer not to auto-renew, you can cancel your premium membership at any time and it will remain in effect until the end of the 12 months. To cancel, sign in at SpeedsterOwners.com and navigate to: (Your User Name)  > Premium Membership.

PLEASE NOTE: Your credit card will receive a charge from CROWDSTACK PAY, the payment processor, not SpeedsterOwners.com.

$49.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable)
×