Oil Pump R&R??

It can be done- loosen the perimeter nuts around it and you should be able to tap it out, working from side to side without the proper puller.  Just a little each side at a time.  If the exterior of the pump is o-ringed it might take a while (makes sure there's no rubber traces left behind), and I don't know what to tell you about getting the new 1 back in if it's o-ringed as well.

for the hose- a dremel and cut off wheel is miles above how I did it the last time- in a vice with a hack saw (I did tape it up- I'm not CroMagnon or anything...)

A Dremel cutoff will work but plan on going through a few wheels. I use a harbor freight angle grinder and metal cutoff wheels. Just about any kind of tape works if you keep it thin enough to stay on when you slide the fitting up (I usually give the tape a short squirt of WD-40 to help the fitting do no damage).

Never tried an oil pump R&R without splitting the case so no experience here.

I've used 2 long screwdrivers and applied pressure to both sides of the pump evenly after loosening the case nuts around the pump area. Careful, not to break off the ears on the pump if you want to keep it. There is a puller made for removing it if you find a VW shop that might lend it to you. Install is easier, apply a bit of oil to the side of the pump case and give it a tap with a rubber hammer to start it and drive it home. Don't forget the gasket or O-ring. I have worked on stainless hose in the past. Not fun, if you're in a hurry. Those wires will poke the crap out of you. Good tape will help and so will a cut off wheel. If there is a hot rod shop near you, they use AN fittings and SS hose all the time. They may be a help if you mark where to cut and ask nicely. There is a tool for that too, call Koul Tools , made by a car guy in AZ. It's really slick to have, but it's about $100.00. May be worth it if you plan to do a lot of braided line.

Use the pump puller. Loosen the case studs above and below the pump. You'll need to remove the pump gears. Rapping the side of the pump with a rubber mallet while pulling helps. Go slow, you can bend or break the puller.

I would not use screwdrivers to lever it out,  you could easily damage the case.

Use a lot of oil on the new pump, make sure the tang is the same length, also the pump body in the case. The body can hit the cam gear bolts.

I don't use SS hose. I'm not a fan of how abrasive it is, and use nylon braid instead. I bought a Kool tool, it is nylon and was $15. Works well to start the hose. I use one layer of cheap making tape to prevent fraying. There are also aluminum vice jaws to hold the fittings for assembly.

Buy some AN wrenches, they aren't that expensive. Amazon has an adjustable for cheap. I bought -8 and -10 from Jegs. I use the adjustable on -6 for fuel lines.

I've made up quite a few lines: dry sump and breather lines on 2 Spyders and EFI on my car.

Something to think about- PTFE (teflon) lined hose is cheap enough these days that I think it's a no brainer.  Rubber hose (even with a stainless woven outer) can swell with time and more than once has destroyed an engine.  The only caveat- PTFE hose doesn't bend as much as rubber lined hose, but that just means taking more time planning out your fittings.  I really like the nylon braided hose available these days (Danny referred to it in his post above as well)- not only does it come in black so it doesn't draw your attention, it's significantly lighter than SS (always a factor every self respecting Speedster owner should be thinking about).

It even comes in 5 ft. lengths- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/104922/10002/-1

And I really liked the nylon vice jaws- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80544/10002/-1 for making up hose ends- if you want to get rid of it afterward I will gladly buy it for ¾ of what you paid for it (plus shipping, of course!)

And a Q before I go- I got FHE, but what the heck is SOP?                                                        Hope this helps.  Al

PS- I've notice people mounting their filter sideways and fairly high up in the rear wheelwell- if you hang the filter straight up/down removal/replacement is a lot neater (all 3 Toyota trucks I've owned over the years have had the oil filters at various angles of sideways and changing them has always been a somewhat messy affair), and try to keep the filter itself as low as possible- less chance of the hoses draining back into the engine with it taking longer to build pressure at start up.  If you're worried about the filter getting hit by road debris from the tire an aluminum shield will protect it and still allow airflow around it.

If everything is already in place and you're only doing the pump and hoses then never mind!

And a Q before I go- I got FHE, but what the heck is SOP?        

The only SOP I know is Standard Operating Procedure.

I agree with Danny - Use a pump puller

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/6528.htm

It makes the whole job easy and you won't screw up either the case surface (that sees a very thin gasket) with screwdrivers.  

I don't make up my own hoses.  I get the lengths needed and just an inch or two longer, mark them as to the final length and orientation of end fittings and once it's all marked up I take everything to my NAPA store and they make them up.

@Robert M posted:

And a Q before I go- I got FHE, but what the heck is SOP?        

The only SOP I know is Standard Operating Procedure.

Of course.  Thanks Robert!

Thanks guys. I have the puller. TBH,* I’m more worried about the new one going in than the old one coming out. I figured I drive it up to operating temp while keeping the new pump in a cooler with blue ice. And work as fast as I can to get the new cold pump in the warm case.

Which brings up another question I have. I’m assuming the oil loss will be minimal, so I wasn’t planning on draining the oil (until I’m finished). Is removing the pump going to dump all the oil on me?

Thanks for the tip on NAPA Gordon. Made me realize I can go to my old teachers race/restoration shop. I’m sure he’s got everything I need to make the fittings.  

I’m using Teflon lined tubing, and if all goes according to plan, won’t need any severe bends. It’s in a Spyder, and the plan is to mount the filter on the firewall just above the torsion housing. 2x45° fittings pretty much makes the hose a straight shot. (Although I haven’t pinned down the exact final location yet) Danny, you do Spyder. Do you think there’s any reason to put more than 2” extra hose to allow for engine vibration?

I wish I’d have thought this through before I bought SS hose, I like the idea of the black nylon, too  Maybe the SS will be a trial run.

* To be honest ALB.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I don't make up my own hoses.  I get the lengths needed and just an inch or two longer, mark them as to the final length and orientation of end fittings and once it's all marked up I take everything to my NAPA store and they make them up.

Are you talking about crimped hydraulic hoses from NAPA, you know for tractors and heavy equipment? If so, they are often smaller in diameter internally than AN hose fittings which are designed for max flow. Hydraulic hose fittings aren't the best for flow, but they can certainly handle HIGH pressure.

FHE= first hand experience. How about SSDD?

Dave: no need for a lot of extra hose length. The motor will move up and down about 1/2" either way. So plan for that and you should be good.

Yeah, I know that 1.  I'm not that old and feeble...

And what Danny says above- most hydraulic fittings are very restrictive, more concerned with not blowing apart under high pressure and not meant for high volume flow- there's not a lot of fluid movement in a typical hydraulic system.  An engine is the opposite- low pressure (comparatively)/high flow.  I believe a VW engine with a 21 mm pump will flow something like 3 gal/min at 3,000 rpm- the 2 ½ quarts in a stock engine will have recirculated 6-7 times in that minute.  I have also been told that some brands of automotive fittings are actually too restrictive for automotive use as well- almost like they're re-purposed hydraulic fittings.  I know there are guys who examine every fitting that goes on any of their projects, and if a 3/8" drill bit won't pass through an AN-8 fitting they'll either drill it out (if it's feasible) or return it.

SSDD- that's easy- Super Sexy Double D's....

@Michael Pickett posted:

A Dremel cutoff will work but plan on going through a few wheels.

A while ago I bought a dremel accessory called EZ-Lock. It comes with real fiber reinforced wheels just like the big time. In fact, in the two years since I bought it, I’ve only used 3, including one to cut 4/8 feet off my valve adjusters when I redid my rockers. (Threads were elongated and I couldn’t just screw them out.)

Nice, David. That'll do the trick.

PS: I’ve been putting this off because my bulged/herniated L5/S1 have been giving me fits all winter. I’m off to Spinal Interventions to get some injections that, hopefully, will allow me to do work on the Spyder without disabling me for 5-7 days.

Wish me luck!

Al, you're getting senile. AN-6 is 3/8" i.d., AN-8 is 1/2" i.d.

AN fittings are in 1/16" increments, AN-6 is 6/16" or 3/8", AN-8 is 8/16".

SSDD= same $hit different day.

@dlearl476 I have those Dremel discs also. They work very well and the quick-change is great. They are pretty tough also, one disc will cut many hoses.

I usually buy the hose in 15-20 foot lengths, then I'll have extra for later if I mess one up for whatever reason.

Yeah, Danny, I keep forgetting- and btw- I like mine better!

@dlearl476- I hope it goes well and you're back at it quickly.

Thanks ALB.

Like they say, getting old isn’t for the faint at heart. (Or is it “feint”)

54° today. Supposed to be ~60° tomorrow. With any luck I’ll be laying on the cold cement of my garage tomorrow!

@ALB posted:

Yeah, I know that 1.  I'm not that old and feeble...

And what Danny says above- most hydraulic fittings are very restrictive, more concerned with not blowing apart under high pressure and not meant for high volume flow- there's not a lot of fluid movement in a typical hydraulic system.  An engine is the opposite- low pressure (comparatively)/high flow.  I believe a VW engine with a 21 mm pump will flow something like 3 gal/min at 3,000 rpm- the 2 ½ quarts in a stock engine will have recirculated 6-7 times in that minute.  I have also been told that some brands of automotive fittings are actually too restrictive for automotive use as well- almost like they're re-purposed hydraulic fittings.  I know there are guys who examine every fitting that goes on any of their projects, and if a 3/8" drill bit won't pass through an AN-8 fitting they'll either drill it out (if it's feasible) or return it.

SSDD- that's easy- Super Sexy Double D's....

I bought into XRP’s spiel. Their connectors are average -1AN larger ID than even the aeroquip/earls fittings. Thinner walls.

I don’t know if their hose is likewise, which is why I’m following the common wisdom of AN-6 Fuel and AN-8 oil. I really wanted the cleaner look of 6, but don’t want to blow a fitting off w/cold oil.

@DannyP Al has a point. A lot of cheapo (Chinese?) fittings are undersized. I think what he’s  saying is if a 3/8” won’t fit in an AN-8 (1/2”) you’re screwed. According to the XRP website, many aren’t, especially 45°< fittings.

When I was “doing my own research,” the only thing consistent from one manufacturer to the next was the hose ID. The fitting IDs were all over the place. Doesn’t make much sense to me to put a fitting with a <-8 fitting on an -8 hose. That’s why I went with the more expensive XRP stuff.

My local NAPA will make up anything you want.  All my external oil hoses are 1/2” ID with AN8 fittings.  Go out back to the hose rack, pick out what’cha want, get them to cut the lengths a little long, then I usually get a box of various AN8 fittings either straight or various bends and head home.  Under the car I can figure out what fittings I want to use and their directions, then measure and mark each hose for length and the orientation of hose and fittings and take everything back to NAPA where they cut and crimp everything.  They take back all of the fittings I didn’t use.  The big rule of thumb is “Don’t expect braided clad hoses to bend much.”  They’re really stiff.

I either use the NAPA store or a shop supply place nearby called “Mechanics Bliss” but they are über old-school and will never have a useful website.  Always interesting to drop in, though, as their tool selection is amazing, but they’ll do hoses exactly as you want them, too.  Big old 4-story warehouse in a seedy part of town and been there since the 1920’s.

Lucky man, Gordon. I lost count of how many times I redid the oil filter lines on the Spyder. Real PIA.

I stopped by my old teachers shop today and got some inspiration. He told me he just uses masking tape on the connectors and a pair of crescent wrenches.

He had a couple of interesting projects.

914-6 GT clone he’s making for the school’s racing program. They’re assembling the motor for it now.

One of the rarities he works on, “Last of the Longhoods” 911S. All original, except for the new dash he’s installing.

@dlearl476 posted:

@DannyP Al has a point. A lot of cheapo (Chinese?) fittings are undersized. I think what he’s  saying is if a 3/8” won’t fit in an AN-8 (1/2”) you’re screwed. According to the XRP website, many aren’t, especially 45°< fittings.

When I was “doing my own research,” the only thing consistent from one manufacturer to the next was the hose ID. The fitting IDs were all over the place. Doesn’t make much sense to me to put a fitting with a <-8 fitting on an -8 hose. That’s why I went with the more expensive XRP stuff.

^^^THAT^^^                                                                                                                                     The fitting's minimum diameter has to be smaller than the hose id (since part of the fitting will fit in the hose).  I have an old Aeroquip fitting here that I can pass a 3/8" drill bit through the inside of the fitting.  If you check some other brands of fittings you'll find this is not necessarily the case- any smaller and the flow is restricted.

From XRP’s catalogue:

@DannyP Boy, they sure are proud of that aramid fiber hose. I can’t find it any cheaper than $25/foot. And I figure I’ll need 4’. You have a better source?

No. I use Jeg's brand nylon braided, or sometimes Evil Energy(Amazon Chinese stuff). I use the Jeg's for oil and the Chinese stuff for breather lines. No pressure on the breather stuff.

4 feet? That's not enough length to fret over the internal size of the fittings. I believe that only really matters if you route the lines up front to a cooler and back, then you're going 15-20 feet. 4 feet is not enough length for the "smaller" fittings to make much of a difference.

Having said that, both of the suction sides to my dry sump: case to pump, and tank feed to pressure stage feature AN-10 hoses and fittings. Both are bigger than 1/2" i.d. all the way through. All the pressure side and cooler hoses are AN-8.

@DannyP posted:

Having said that, both of the suction sides to my dry sump: case to pump, and tank feed to pressure stage feature AN-10 hoses and fittings. Both are bigger than 1/2" i.d. all the way through. All the pressure side and cooler hoses are AN-8.

The engine and trans cooler lines my buddy is putting in his 914-6 GT clone are euro Coline hoses, I swear they’re 1”. They looked like fire hoses.

Engine oil cooler runs up front, trans cooler is in the rear, fed with a NACA duct in the engine cover.

He’s building it to race in a class that gets a time penalty for every non-original bit, hence the hoses/coolers just like the original factory race cars.

Those hoses sure are pretty. He made them up at school where they have a hydraulic crimper.