oil sump plate bolt torque amounts

Aftermarket stuff has no exact torque spec, what I use is a short 1/4 drive ratchet and zip zag cross tighten with only my pinky going around it twice  until you have a good " snug"and ..Stop There.

Yeah, the spec is something like 14 inch pounds.  

That equates to “pinky snug”.

Pretty much nailed it, guys. My pinky isn't very strong, so I use my index and thumb choked up as far as I can on the 1/4" ratchet. 

I need a plate with a drain plug too. Lubricate the rubber before tightening.

thanks all, pinky tight it is

The Bentley says "hand tighten just until the threads strip, then back it off a quarter turn."

Nope. Those threads won’t strip.

They’ll pull out of the case, but the studs themselves absolutely, positively won’t ever strip.

wait: the threads in the plate aren't called "threads?" Only the threads on the bolt or stud are called threads? We're into some graduate level gearhead pedantry now & I want to learn.

I guess my overly pedantic post was drawing a distinction (that probably isn’t there) between ”pulling” threads and “stripping” them. 

Carry on about your business, sir. 

Oh, Sure.....    Now we're gonna debate the Pedantics of Pulling versus Stripping!  

Like he went to "Cambridge" or something, eh?

Just get 'em tight! (and use the copper washers.)   

@Gordon Nichols Are you saying, replace the rubber O-rings with copper washers?

.my head hurts ~

Maybe not, on the copper washers, ND:  

Original VW and look-alike sump plates were assembled with a paper gasket between plate and sump, and they used copper washers between the plate and stud nuts to seal everything up.

So if your Jaycee plate came with rubber O-rings in the kit, then that's the thing to use.

Full disclaimer - I have never used a Jaycee plate but respect Jaycee for producing really good quality stuff for the Sand Buggy crowd.  If they say use o-rings then I would.  Same tightening technique would apply.   Copper washers are so 1950's.....

If the sump plate uses O rings (and came with them) there will probably be insets where they fit into. And a couple tips from the VW crowd- using 6mm bolts threaded from the inside keeps the threads in the case from pulling out should the sump plate nuts be over-torqued. And some guys re-thread the sump plate holes in the case to 7mm for more strength when adding a sump. Al

I used the rubber O rings and 6x23mm studs w bolts.  little more than pinky tight and seems to be working.  Found out how much oil comes out when the oil filter pulls the filter threaded hose connect out too.  jeez. Finally got it all together and its running well and not leaking for the first time ever!  But it took almost 6Q to fill the system. Lots of oil.  Used Rotella 30w.

"Found out how much oil comes out when the oil filter pulls the filter threaded hose connect out too."

Yeah.  A LOT!  

Fortunately, no photos were taken of the oil slick going out of my driveway at the time, and after it kinda-sorta washed off, I seal-coated over it.  

6 qts sounds about right.  Mine takes something like 5 with the external filter and cooler.

Mine takes 6.5 quarts, and I run it a half-quart low on the dipstick, cuts down on oil consumption. And since my lines go above the sump, I check it hot, shut off engine, open engine hatch up, pull dipstick, wipe, and check. All within about 30 seconds of shutdown to avoid drainback. If I check it cold after it sits for a while, it shows a slight bit above full.

YMMV

When one uses any aftermarket bolt on oil sump we suggest to keep your oil level just below the full line. 

ALB posted:

If the sump plate uses O rings (and came with them) there will probably be insets where they fit into. And a couple tips from the VW crowd- using 6mm bolts threaded from the inside keeps the threads in the case from pulling out should the sump plate nuts be over-torqued. And some guys re-thread the sump plate holes in the case to 7mm for more strength when adding a sump. Al

When installing a aftermarket sump we check to make sure it's sitting flat on the mating surface. We found several times the fins or the casting itself contacts before the mating surface does. 

Anthony posted:

ALB posted:

If the sump plate uses O rings (and came with them) there will probably be insets where they fit into. And a couple tips from the VW crowd- using 6mm bolts threaded from the inside keeps the threads in the case from pulling out should the sump plate nuts be over-torqued. And some guys re-thread the sump plate holes in the case to 7mm for more strength when adding a sump. Al

When installing a aftermarket sump we check to make sure it's sitting flat on the mating surface. We found several times the fins or the casting itself contacts before the mating surface does. 

 

Always something to look out for; if you've been around VW performance for any length of time you've seen it at least once. A little file work and voila- no contact!

Curious as to the consensus on the CB Performance 2-qt Wide Glide Oil Sump. I’m sure I’ll get a number of opinions, just wondering if it is worth adding my my Vintage Speedster 1915cc engine. 

In addition, those that have installed them, will it scrape?  I read where it is slightly less then 2”. As it stands now, I need to go down my driveway at an angle so as not to scrape the exhaust tips. 

I’ve used the search function on this site, but found limited response. 

Thanks in advance. kW

-hope this isn’t completely highjacking the thread. 

Add the sump- any VW (even a completely stock one) that is driven harder than the elves at Wolfsburg intended needs more oil capacity. Uncovering the pick up (even just occasionally) will result in seriously reduce engine life. Al

The 1.5 quart thinline is my recomendation. It doesn't sit below my frame on my Spyder. I know a few Speedster guys have bottomed out with the 2 and 3.5 quart versions. The 1.5 qt. gives you 4 quarts without cooler, even more with, and isn't a big risk of bottoming(and possibly ruining your engine case). 

I think my rear sway bar is lower than the thinline sump.

I have and highly recommend the 1.5 Thinline Sump. I also have and highly recommend the Jaycee Mag-X sump plate. I can drain the oil from the drain plug before I remove the plate. It makes things a lot cleaner.

The CB unit is fine, I prefer the berg casting. yes it reduces the ground clearance but if you put a good set of shocks you may not have that issue. these cars come with the most inexpensive shocks available. If you want it to handle and ride better start with a set of koni's or bilstien. then most likely you won't have a bottoming out situation.

Thanks all. Great feedback. Good call on the shocks @Anthony. I am currently running Koni’s on all four corners. 

I noticed the CB Performance 1709 2-quart Wide Glide Oil sump dimensions are: 

11" L x 16" W x 1 7/8" D;

the CB Performance 1770 1 1/2-quart Thin Line Oil Sump dimensions are:

11" width x 10 1/2" height x 1 7/8" deep. 

They appear to be the exact same depth. 

Shocks do not set ride height. (Except for Hijackers air shocks last seen on the street circa 1985). That is all.

Hey, wait just a darn meen-ute there, Meester Ericson!

I had a pair of HiJackers on my tail-dragging ‘66 Mustang!

Brought that tired butt right up.  Too bad Ms. Kardashian hasn’t heard of them!

Don't check this every day, so late to the party.  Could not help snagging:

"Copper washers are so 1950's"

Well there you have it -- this is who we are, even if some of us (Meester Ericson, for example) were still in diapers then.

Note on oil plate stud/nut tightening, etc.: Pinky Tight is correct. Just snug plus a little bit. You just know how small the stud is and how weak the Al is. Go easy.  Using Modern tech with billet machined plate and "O" ring seal -- very nice.  Surprised Galat did not recommend drilling out the case threads and taping with Helicoils, which, if I were building an engine --  I definitely am not -- I would do at every opportunity presented, this one in particular. another area would be the alternator stand to engine joint, so that one could remove the studs there and use bolts instead thus facilitating R&R of alternator.  But, hey, that's just me.

edsnova posted:

Shocks do not set ride height. (Except for Hijackers air shocks last seen on the street circa 1985). That is all.

... and every car do equipped rode like a log wagon.

We were young once, and dumb. 

El Frazoo posted:

 

Note on oil plate stud/nut tightening, etc.: Pinky Tight is correct. Just snug plus a little bit. You just know how small the stud is and how weak the Al is. Go easy.  Using Modern tech with billet machined plate and "O" ring seal -- very nice.  Surprised Galat did not recommend drilling out the case threads and taping with Helicoils, which, if I were building an engine --  I definitely am not -- I would do at every opportunity presented, this one in particular. another area would be the alternator stand to engine joint, so that one could remove the studs there and use bolts instead thus facilitating R&R of alternator.  But, hey, that's just me.

The Bentley manual specs 5 ft. lbs. for the 6mm oil strainer plate nuts, Kelly, and as you said, that's snug plus a little bit. I've always found that when choked up on the ratchet or wrench it's just right. I've also noticed that when the 6mm cap nuts (the cap nuts, along with the copper washers sealed the studs) were overtightened, along with the strainer plate deforming around the holes, the threads in the cap nuts would start to strip. I think the cap nuts would bottom on the studs and they'd be destroyed before the studs. I'm guesssing VW made the cap nuts soft intentionally, as they are easier to replace than the studs or the threads in the case.

Yeah, inserting the strainer stud holes would prevent damage, but that's expensive to have done, and as I said earlier, replacing the 5 studs just wound into the case with the appropriate length bolts wound through from the inside is the easy/cheap fix (the 6th stud already has a nut holding it place as it's the pick up anchor). That way you'll never pull the threads out of the magnesium case. And I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again- tapping the case with 7mm threads with the larger hardware will make sure a sump never comes loose.

And next engine I do will get inserts for the 2 rear generator/alternator studs so they can be bolted in from the top. The 2 front studs will remain with the front holes being slotted so the stand just slides back once the 2 rear bolts are pulled. Al

ALB: next engine??  And never thought about the slot idea -- genius.

Cap nuts?  Nah never used anything like that.  And I always use some red RTV on the drain plate gaskets.  Both sides, both gaskets. Never leaks.

Red RTV is verboten at my house. Proper cleaning and use of gaskets means no leaks WITHOUT smackempucky.

Me likeum smackempucky. Used discreetly, works quite well.  Belts and suspenders.

El Frazoo posted:

Me likeum smackempucky. Used discreetly, works quite well.  Belts and suspenders.

I agree Kelly. If it works for you use it. It's cheap insurance and if you use appropriately/sparingly, why not?

Everyone on the forum talks about the inconsistent quality of VW parts, many have even complained about uneven surfaces on sumps etc. If a little "smackempucky" works for you then use it.

If you buy an EMPI sump, I'd expect it to leak. You do get what you pay for mostly.

Buy a CB sump, and never look back. If you want the drain plug, either buy the JayCee or machine the CB like I did.

Machine the CB Never crossed my mind, brilliant!

No problem, Bill. It was easy with my buddy Mike's mill. Use a later VW drain plug, it's almost flush.Thread is 14mm x 1.5.