OPENIG a set of heads to 57.5 cc

Can it be done, without causing problems? I also have a freind who's dauther is excellent with aluminum tig welding . SO Were even concidering increasing the head steps in it to get it all.

That will still require longer push rods .

The polishing work should also improve the headflow.

LARRY, JAKE , speak up! I want your opinons.

Barry....I assume this is your 1699 engine. If so, type 1 heads should go to 57+ cc's without a problem....You may already be there.

Leon C.

The only way to know for sure is to cc the heads in their current configuration and then make the determination if there is enough material to work with.

If you're running the 74 stroke x 85.5 bore, a 57.5 cc head will give you roughly an 8.3 static compression ratio with a "0" deck height.

STOCK 53 cc Chambers.

Thanks guys ..That would work. But its not enough as the gas in the future has to be conciderd as fuel gets worse.
I just got off the phone with Adrian Pellows and 64cc is the limit. and Im going for 7.5-1 so what ever it takes it gets.

He priced them with SS valves stock sizes fulley ported and opened to the MAX under $800,oo I will have to wait now because money is getting tight Its the end of the month.

But I'd say its a good fix and maybe no shims at all. I will also have him to make the correct push rods up to match if he does have to weld and restep the heads seats the intire 8mm of additional stroke to get it back to a stock configuration. He shouldn't have to go that far . But I will tell him to do what he must.

They had stock push rods in it. This is just sicking.. they were way off before we even started

I am taking notes on this one. Because it will oneday have a twin brother in the D.

SO I HAVE to get it right. and I found the carrera Sc spec's and Im using them as a guide

Larry and Leon I have a request. I have played with so many engine calculators and got so many different variactions Im not sure which to trust

Would you please give it a try on your own and see what you get shooting for a 7.5-1 cr with the 85.5 x 74 with a 0 deck that is what what would be the best.

The 0,060 steps in the heads will most likely be welded up and re cut with a 6mm shoulder for the jugs to seat then the relief work to open the chambers that way the heads don't get to thin and you still get the volume without shims. I will need longer push rods thats a simple thing. But I need to nail this calulation down. Even If have to break out the old tried and true pencel

With "0" deck height...64-65cc works out to be 7.6/7.5 to 1 cr....

Good Luck...Leon C.

That is pushing it .I may still have to put one 1 mm shim under the jugs Thats .60 thou. and live with it.. This is going be a test of compromizes, and it has realy got me very upset. I want to keep that crank in it!

Now bear in mind that welding in a step gives you the ability to go as far as maybe 8mm. thats 0.480 thou the length of the longer 74 mm crank stroke if Adrian aproves of this or is already doing it some ?
We should be able to build T-1s that looks and sounds like the 1962 356 b SC but with a longer street life .

And with Jakes new shroud, it will look correct.

It does mean a longer engine of 16mm but I bet Jake has forseen this.

Barry-

Take a deep breath. Why do you want to get to 7.5:1 so badly? "Regular" gasoline has had an 87 Octane rating since the advent of unleaded gas in the 70s- it isn't likely to get worse in the lifetime of the engine.

There are a LOT of people running 8:1 on regular gas. All other things being equal, an engine with higher compression will make more power without a sacrifice in fuel economy (which seems to be what you are after).

Barry.... 8mm is NOT .480inches.... .480 inches works out to be just under 12.25mm.....12.7mm equals 1/2 inch...Thats a huge amount by any standard....

Leon C.

Barry... Stan is correct in that 8 to 1 is common and acceptable...

If Jake is Jake Raby, talk it over with him and have faith in him, he can make the engine do anything with reasonable longevity.... He's 35-40 miles from the house....

Leon C.

I hav a digital ruler that when you change from metric mode to inches at a setting of 8mm which is the differance of the strokes from 74 to stock it gives a reading of 0.480 Now I may be mis interpting this inf.. But now Im even more confused.

Gents I know it could go fine with 8 to 1 .. But what about a blended fuel like the ethionol/gas blend? or Bio fuels.They are talking about going with that stuff in North Carolina.

This is really turning into a wet can of worms..

Thats a Whole nother topic and it may come to pass here.

I see 4 ways of getting the cr right here AND Ok 8.to 1

1, Is a set of opened heads $800.oo and you get a hot spot where the heads and clyinders meet with a gap . If the heads have to be stepped to get the bigger chambers,
I could make a fin flange for the gaps but that kills 2 more heads.

2. is a set of Nickies of custom length.which would run to cool for this and be over $3,000.oo

3, is a custom connectiong rods set Price umknown But im guessing about the same as the heads Also i'd have to reclearance and rebalance the pistons to do that.

This is the best fix I see..because you need no shims and get no hot spot. and the engine is stock length And I will look into this one

4, is to wield up the base of the clyinders and re cut the lower flange straight to allow a 8mm shim there. That gives you a risk of future oil leaks. and no tellng what it does to the jugs strength.

Chose your poision. any combinaton will be pesky and all have a
high cost.

I don't think Jake will help me on this . He wanted me to buy one of his engines. at over $6,000.oo

Barry...Your calculator seems to have a problem....VW stock crank stroke for 1600 engines is 69 mm......Subtracting that from 74mm (your stated new stroke) leaves a difference of 5mm. (not 8mm.)

8mm. is .314 inches (just under 5/16 in.) Your engine will be only 5/16in. wider.

As for your compression ratio issues....there is a way to lower it using custom made copper cylinder to head gaskets.......Realitively cheap ...

I have a few questions....Are you positive you have 85.5mmX74mm....
If you have not pulled one head, you realy don't know what you have...

Most 1915cc engines and a few 2110 engines run using the stock oil cooler only...without problems.....

If you are not experienced in this area, I would reccomend finding a local shop (somebody jump in here with a name, place, etc.) and have them lift a head and check out the bore and stroke. This should not be too expensive....

Too early in the AM....Your engine will be 5/8in. wider.....You realy need simplify...1699cc is not a monster engine....welding cylinders is very expensive, as castiron requires nickle welding material.....
welding up cylinder heads is also not cost effective.....cylinder base gaskets, and/or copper head gaskets are the way to go....

You stated you considered "a 1mm cylinder base shim, that's .060in"
That calculator is killing you....One inch equals 25.4 mm. 1mm equals 03937in.This means your .060in is closer to 1.5mm....

Sit back, relax, and state what you want this engine to do....
The cam, if a lower " performance" choice is not worth splitting the case for, unless you are shooting for an all out assault on MPG.
I run an Eagle cam of high lift and rather long duration, and still get 32 mpg, if I keep my foot out of it.

A compression ratio of 8 to 1 is reasonable for the typical life span of the engine. Alchol, gas, whatever.....

Remain Calm....we're here to help....

Leon C.

I realy need to wake up......I figured engine width at 8mm stroke increase,...It should have been for 5mm. (times 2) or 10mm wider,
that's .3937 inches wider.

Sorry, I'm going to the coffee pot now.....

Leon C.

You stated that Jake wanted you to buy one of his engines at over 6K

If you keep going at this rate, you'll be there soon.

Leon is dead on, the difference between your 74 crank and a stock crank is 5mm. That means only 2.5 mm's (2.5 up and 2.5 down) so the spacer that needed isn't 5mm but 2.5mm or a .10" spacer under each barrel. BTW, You're so dead set against spacers, WHY????

I've built numerous engines with spacers and had absolutely no problems. It's also another way to add a little deck height to help lower the compression.

As stated, 8 to 1 is a decent compression ratio and will allow you some engine power and still run cool.

I'm not so sure I would want to be welding that much on those brand new heads. If your friends daughter does weld, it's going to take a long time to weld that much material and then the machine work is going to be very costly once she's finished

Larry was I that SLEEPY.....went "times 2" and should have been divide by 2.....egad!!!!!!!

Sorry about the screw ups in the previous posts....With 6 hrs. sleep, "I'm much better now!"....

I went back and read all your posts again, and I would like to verify that this started after the engine had been removed and replaced several times.....

If so, look closley at the carb to manifold gaskets and the manifold to head gaskets.... Tugging on those tall carbs gives you lots of leverage...possibly more than the gaskets could bear....

Kadron 40's are single throat carbs, are they not... If so, they will work on the engine when properly jetted and synchronized...Weber 40 IDF's can be made to run on a 1600cc engine without problems....

Keep us posted....

Leon C.

Thats my other problem also I.ve been going on little sleep so I am making mistakes also. that compouned by family and pressures with other things . Is not making this any easyer.

I have got a new pair of 34 solex brosols and even the venturi is changeable pesently 32/34 vents.

Infinaly more adjustable and much easyer to install. With a jetting kit and aset of 28/32 vents.. I know they will be a better set up for me They have chokes!!

If I can not get a refund for these 40s empi solex so as to return them? They will stay up for sell here the engine as been out3 times and great care was taken with the intakes and studs on the heads Im sending those heads back also. the stud in them are his problem ,

Mark Wolter didn't seem to mind for there safe trip to North Carolina but they made it safe and sound. But no credit to him. the air filter kit were mangeled as was a cracke rotory button It was just set on a pallot unstrapped and suran wrapped. PITYFUL!!

I took the carbs and simply turned them upside down and left them in a sunny spot to dry out then packed them away in clean boxes.

Only the idle screws have been touched . nothing else. stil clean and like new. Heck they are new!! Ya want um?

The new heads will be ordered in 2 weeks as 58.5 chambers new old stock stepped heads ported and polished with SS valves of stock sizes. (I found a supplier stash just by acident) and my lips are sealed.
With your help gentlemen I can know make the engine 8.25 to 1 compression. So (Thanks) for getting my head straight .

At this size chamber I will be able ajust them with just one shim on each jug of any thickness required ,.

exzamples;

0.000 = 8.3

0.005 = 8.2

0.010 = 8.1

0.020 = 8.0

0.030 = 7.8

0.040 = 7.7

0.050 = 7.5

0.060 = 7.4

This now looks like a reasonable shim set up that gives you adjusabilty.

I am tring VERY hard to make a very eficent engine. and don't let the fulley automatic fool you. Thats a very efficent tranny, that only draws 2 hp to work it and the type 3s so equiped were know to get 34 to 36 mpg, commonly known!!

On the Hot vw mileage motor they put a heaveyer flywheel and added a heavyer pully on the front. The tourqe converter of a type 3 is quite a bit heaveyer than that.So it is going to help it!!!