Ordered from Vintage Motorcars California - 8 Week DELIVERY!! :D

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

I had a monster type 4 engine built some 20 years ago to run in a 73 Porsche 914 I had set up for track days and auto-cross. It was bored and stroked to almost 2.4 Liters. The engine was built by some guy in New Jersey that had a shop that specialized in working on Bentley's and other exotic cars, and he side lined in type 4 engines ( he was a Latino  gentlemen that I would love to find if anyone on here recognizes his description let me know). The engine was super powerful and bullet proof during the years I thrashed it until I sold it to a group of racers to run it in PCA events and they ran it for years with no trouble. That said this thing was tricked out with amazing head work 10.5:1 CR , 44 webers  balanced, etc... It ran the stock cooling fan and tin with zero over heating issues. In my experience the factory design is far ahead of what we come up with in the after market.  I have experience with running the 911 fan shroud on a type 1 engine and I believe the cooling was never even and most of the time over cooled the engine. It was a 2387 type 1 running super flow heads that I had in a Beck Spyder. It ran high 12's in the 1/4 mile and the engine looked great in the car. So, who knows. I do love the look but personally but always worried about the longevity of the engine. That is my convoluted 2 cents worth. Sorry for the circular logic. To each is own, the main goal should be to have fun, after all it is a sort of madness anyway isn't it?

BTW, That is the same Spyder in both pictures. One on track with the removable roll gage installed and graphics in place the other with them removed. The Spyder was bought from Kevin Hines of Special edition I think in 2006 less an engine. The car was used in a TV Pilot for a show to be called "Blow em Up"  The show consisted of taking two cars and running 1/4 mile drag races over and over until one engine blew up or quit running. This 550 Spyder was donated by Special Edition and Jake Raby donated a Monster type 4 engine to run in it. The show was never picked up. (I wonder why?) I thought it was a cool story. If Carey remembers more about it he can chime in.

Cool story!

ALB posted:

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

Good point - I drive often and some pretty windy and steep roads so prefer discs for better braking. But not everyone needs them if they drive in different conditions for sure. 

More update pics - all coming together. The rollers will be replaced with white walls once they finish building.

Speedster posted:

ALB posted:

@Speedster wrote- "...can’t believe all speedster manufacturers don’t offer 4 wheel disc brakes as standard!!"

You forget that most (if not all) rear disc brake kits add 1/2-5/8" track to each side of the car, and with the late (long axle/long bearing housing) swing axle and irs suspensions there just isn't the room. The current manufacturers are also trying to keep the base price point as low as possible to attract customers (something the Porsche factory did with new Speedsters- it was their entry level car). I know it seems a little unbelievable, but I guess not everyone needs disc brakes... 

@TheMayoMachine wrote- " I saw the pic of your fan shroud and it made me re-evaluate doing the same.  I didn’t realize how much space it opens up in the engine bay!"

Yes, they look cool as all hell and it opens up space, but it also consumes a lot more hp to spin that fan, so you better be building it big! Most examples of that style shroud aren't even close to balanced (some cylinders run significantly hotter than others) and with no thermostat the engine takes longer to warm up, which accelerates engine wear. Where these shrouds work best is at continual high speeds on the autobahn, and maybe road racing? (once you've built the inside diverters to get all the cylinders/heads to run similar temps, of course).

Yoda out (for now, but back you know I will be!)

Good point - I drive often and some pretty windy and steep roads so prefer discs for better braking. But not everyone needs them if they drive in different conditions for sure. 

Discs all around are worth every penny and you can get zero offset and not worry about having enough room. I have them on them on my Speedster and now Coupe build without any fitment issues. In fact, I have enough room to add a spacer if I want...

Also, the Porsche shroud uses a different metal combo (not sure what exactly) that keeps it very lite weight. There is another brand that is supper heavy because it uses a different metal... (I'm still a noob so I can't remember the metals...)

My VS came with front discs brakes and rear drums.  I replaced the rear drums with disc brakes were plug and play with no issues about "offset" or anything else.  I started with the CB Performance rears and had the common problem of the separation of the hub's aluminum part from the steel part and replaced the hubs that were on the CB Perf.  set up with the solid steel hubs from Socal imports. Hell yes, they are heavy but my Type IV engine can't tell the difference. Now my 4 wheel disc brakes are working perfectly and I have confidence that they will continue to do so.  I would never have a Speedster without 4 wheel disc brakes and for sure, a high powered Speedster.  Drum brakes are just one step better than the mechanical brakes I once had on a '34 Ford.   We need all the safety we can muster on these plastic egg shell cars  and I'd start with brakes that are reliable. This comes from experience with a very scary panic stop with rear drums on an interstate.

If I had it to do over I'd go with the Socal product to start with.  Good price and it fits a pan based Speedster.

@Jimmy V. wrote- "I have experience with running the 911 fan shroud on a type 1 engine and I believe the cooling was never even and most of the time over cooled the engine."

"The car was used in a TV Pilot for a show to be called "Blow em Up"..."

Great observations, Jimmy. An engine that takes forever to warm up wears quicker than an engine that is designed to reach operating temps quickly. Gene Berg claimed that type 1 engines without the thermostat and flaps had 12-15% faster wear (which translates into shorter life, boys and girls) in southern California, where it never really gets all that cold. Where I live (greater Vancouver area) daily driven engines without thermostat/flap assemblies will almost never reach operating temps for 4-5 months of the year and only last 40-50,000 miles. The 1 friend that still daily drives a VW removes the rear engine apron (the 1 over the exhaust) about the end of October or early November, throws it behind the rear seat for the winter and re-installs it when the weather starts warming up again (late March or early April. And this is in a with  a properly operating thermostat/flaps assembly! 

The biggest issue with most 911 style shrouds on a 4 cylinder engine, besides not having fast warm up or using significantly more (twice as much?) hp than the type 1 fan is getting all the cylinders and heads cooling evenly-  side to side differences exist as well as getting equal amounts of air to the front and back.

One man's efforts to make a 911 shroud work-

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/fo...p;highlight=bergmann

And I remember Jake talking about their efforts for that show. I wondered what they did with the car afterward, but of course they sold it...

@*LongFella wrote- "Discs all around are worth every penny and you can get zero offset and not worry about having enough room. I have them on them on my Speedster and now Coupe build without any fitment issues. In fact, I have enough room to add a spacer if I want...

Also, the Porsche shroud uses a different metal combo (not sure what exactly) that keeps it very lite weight. There is another brand that is supper heavy because it uses a different metal... (I'm still a noob so I can't remember the metals...)"

You are right, Brian, the difference between drums and discs is not to be denied, and if you drive the car in a sporting manner even just occasionally they are "worth every penny", but they do cost more and not every Speedster owner sees the need for them (there are owners who do no more than the drive to the beach for ice cream). And yeah there are front zero offset kits available, but they cost more. I know most rear kits use a type 3 hub, which adds 5/8" track per side (which you can get around by using early axles and tubes or narrowing the irs trailing arms) but I don't know about the wide 5 kits. Why add a spacer when you could put a wider rear tire on it?

Aren't all the Porsche style shrouds fiberglass?

I think my accident last February was to a large degree due to issues with my rear drums.  In the pre-impact panic stop, the front brakes locked up and the car continued forward as if the rears weren't braking at all.  While in normal driving they felt ok, I hadn't successfully gotten them adjusted for hard braking in quite some time, partially due to a persistent leak from one axle seal.  I thought I had finally solved that, but I had begun to have doubts before the accident occurred.

Neither the adjustment issue nor (I think) the axle seal leakage would have affected rear disks, and those are reasons enough to have them, in my view.

I agree 100%.

Lane---I almost mentioned your crash in my above post because I always felt that if you had discs on all 4 wheels, you could have stopped in time.   Your reaction time was probably fine but the rear drums let you down.  Damned shame except the incident led to scoring a super coupe soon.  Talk about a silver lining!  

Lane Anderson posted:

I think my accident last February was to a large degree due to issues with my rear drums.  In the pre-impact panic stop, the front brakes locked up and the car continued forward as if the rears weren't braking at all.  While in normal driving they felt ok, I hadn't successfully gotten them adjusted for hard braking in quite some time, partially due to a persistent leak from one axle seal.  I thought I had finally solved that, but I had begun to have doubts before the accident occurred.

Neither the adjustment issue nor (I think) the axle seal leakage would have affected rear disks, and those are reasons enough to have them, in my view.

Yeah, discs on the front (where there isn't a lot of weight), rear drums out of adjustment and maybe even some transaxle oil contaminating a set of shoes? Not exactly a recipe for success. 

Those running discs on the front with drums on the back- take the time to adjust those rear brakes often if you want them to be effective in an emergency stop...

And if you're running bigger/wider tires and wheels on the back along with front discs and Beetle rear drums- all the more reason to keep those back shoes adjusted right up!

Yes it is surprising how fast the front end will lock up and even bounce up over rought terrain so you need good rear brakes.

Just to join in, but four wheel discs certainly give more stopping power on one of these lightweight vehicles.  

More progress photos!! Interior is starting to go on - yes you got it right, I chose the red!

Greg has been just awesome - It’s been such a treat getting all these detailed updates and photos - it’s made the whole experience really incredible! 

Looking good! Greg is awesome and runs a great shop!

Looks very nice.  It won't be long!

Another update with pics!

Instrument panel and side mirror have been installed!

I’m more used to having the fuel gauge on the far left and speedometer on the far right, so Greg is going to move these. Apparently both layouts are period correct. 

@Speedster if my memory serves, you are correct. Early 356A's (after the 2-gauge set up) had the speedometer to the left of the tach. This would be mid-late '56 through early-mid '57. After that the speedo moved to the right of the tach. 

But, with Porsche, there seems to always be exceptions to the rule. 

Well I had it on the left and now I have it on the right... with 3 guages I like it better on the right.   Come to think of it I have never seen it in the middle

Deciding where to place the speedo in a Speedster is more complicated than it seems, aside from choosing which of the two 'period correct' positions is more correct.

There are many practical considerations.

First is which half of the speedo you want to obscure. Mounted on the left, the steering wheel blocks the left half. Mounted on the right, the right half of the gauge is blocked. Because of how I drive, the needle's in the left half of the gauge a lot more than it's in the right half, so mounting on the right would seem better.

And since my Chinese gauge is off by about 10 per cent, by the time I'm doing 70, the error is great enough to make it almost useless anyway, so there's another vote for mounting it on the right.

But you risk a lot more trouble with the local constabulary as your speed pushes past 70, so maybe I DO want the damned thing on the left so I can clearly see the needle in the upper reaches of its swing.

On the other hand, this is a sports car. One of its main reasons for being is to impress people with just how fast it goes, and a speedo that lies a lot in the car's favor is a definite asset. It should be mounted where your terrified passenger can best read it, no? Not all the way over on the left, half behind the steering column. The crappy suspension and noisy engine already have most right seaters convinced you're doing 80 when you're still legal, and the speedo does wonders to complete the false sensation of speed.

Me, I gave up looking at the speedo years ago, so it doesn't really matter where it's mounted in my car. I just double the number on the tach and add a bit to figure my speed. I'm already watching the tach, anyway, even though, with this engine, your ears work pretty good to tell you how fast it's spinning.

On a Speedster, the only important gauge is the oil temperature (or CHT, if you've got one).

Just make sure that's where you can see it.

What type of gauges does Vintage use? Are they the same as Special Edition? Just curious. I have recently ordered a GPS driven Speedo From Special edition to replace my Chinese VDO knock off. It isn't accurate and it screeches loudly when cold so I am looking forward to installing the new gauge.

@Jimmy V. My gauge did the same noise and graphite help. Hopefully last a little while. 

I am replacing it. It reads about 8-10 miles fast. I want an accurate odometer. The way it is now the mileage will show to be higher than actual.  If I ever sell my car I want an accurate mileage on the new Subaru engine and new Rancho Transaxle.

@Jimmy V. Mine was off by a few also when track by Iphome apps/gps. Enjoy the subi. I love having that motor. 

No Regrets for going Subaru, best Speedster decision I have made since being seduced by the madness.

Mitch:  With my K/PH speedo I always wait for a new passenger to have some sort of panic attack when we go whipping up past 60 and plateau at 100.  Always good for a chuckle.  

Really impressed Grandson #2......   " Grampa was going 100!!!!!!!   Mom....Can we do 100 in your car? "

Jimmy, I think most of us have gotten used to whatever our speedo says as being "more of a suggestion".  They read high, they read low, sometimes they don't read at all and none of that really bothers many of us.  If we really want to know current speed we can always ask our phone or GPS, but honestly, I never worry about it.

Gordon, our little games of deception will apparently soon be stuff of the past.

It looks like most current builders are using the new VDO gauges, with GPS speedo. IM and Beck have done so for a while now, and judging from @Speedster 's pix, Greg at Vintage (Hawaiian Gardens) is, too. Dunno about Vintage in Phoenix.

@Jimmy V. , if you're going from a Chinese repop speedo to the new VDO, you do know the new gauge is smaller in diameter, right? I assume SE told you about the fix they have for that.

BTW, not sure an optimistic speedo necessarily means the odometer is off, too. My odo seems pretty good, compared to Google maps.

@Sacto Mitch wow good info on the size. 👍

@calmotion , SE supplies what looks like a big O-ring that fits around the gauge and fills in the gap. Looks pretty good in the pix I've seen.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Mitch:  With my K/PH speedo I always wait for a new passenger to have some sort of panic attack when we go whipping up past 60 and plateau at 100.  Always good for a chuckle.  

Really impressed Grandson #2......   " Grampa was going 100!!!!!!!   Mom....Can we do 100 in your car? "

Jimmy, I think most of us have gotten used to whatever our speedo says as being "more of a suggestion".  They read high, they read low, sometimes they don't read at all and none of that really bothers many of us.  If we really want to know current speed we can always ask our phone or GPS, but honestly, I never worry about it.

As a kid, I ran for years without a speedometer at all. But I knew from when it worked what the speed basically was in any gear via the tach and drove off that instead. Alternately, you change gears by feel not rpm

I in stalled Speedhut GPS speedo and a matching tach. Both are much more accurate than the CMC Vintage Repro gauges.  And, they look better too.... Although not original looking they look pretty nice.  You can customize the dials in all kinds of ways when ordering.  The speed matches my Verizon phone GPS exactly! 

@Sacto Mitch you’re right. Greg (at Vintage Motorcars California) is using the new VDO gauges. He said the ones they used to use came from Brazil but were very unreliable. For some, the needles would bounce all over the place and accuracy was thrown out the window. 

These new gauges come with a 2 year warranty and actually work. Here’s a link for those interested. 

https://www.vdo-gauges.com/ins...0mm-speedometer.html

Another picture update! Received a photo wit

-the speedo moved to the far right

-the stereo installed

-carpet laid over floor

-and of the hand brake under the dash!! Very excited about this option (not really sure why it was so important to me to have it under the dash, but It just is! Guess everyone has their own OCDs). 

Looks great @Speedster. Love the steering column and turn signal stalk Greg uses now; over my VS column and stalk. One day I’ll switch them out. 

@Speedster definitely a good choice with Speedometer to the right... that's where i'd put mine as well. is the radio bluetooth compatible? was it extra to get the handbrake under the dash?

ScarletSpeedster posted:

@Speedster definitely a good choice with Speedometer to the right... that's where i'd put mine as well. is the radio bluetooth compatible? was it extra to get the handbrake under the dash?

Yes Bluetooth compatible all the way - each time I see the radio, I can just hear the radio blaring while I’m driving down hwy 1 along the ocean!! Yep, hand brake was extra but an option I personally preferred above all others. 

Putting the handbrake under the dash is a whole lot of fabrication (and time). Yes, it's extra. And guys, if you put the handbrake under the dash it's way harder to perfect your handbrake turns... _{(purists- really! next they'll be wanting to put badges all over the place...)}

Speedster posted:

@Sacto Mitch you’re right. Greg (at Vintage Motorcars California) is using the new VDO gauges. He said the ones they used to use came from Brazil but were very unreliable. For some, the needles would bounce all over the place and accuracy was thrown out the window. 

These new gauges come with a 2 year warranty and actually work. Here’s a link for those interested. 

https://www.vdo-gauges.com/ins...0mm-speedometer.html

 

Interesting...

When did Greg make the change from cable driven speedo to a GPS driven one? Or is the VDO above a cable driven Speedo?

I ask because I recently got a set for my Coupe I’m building and it’s the tried and true cable driven Speedo. My Speedster has the Beck gauges which is GPS (which I prefer since it’s one less cable to route and manage)...granted... there is a trade off because your ODO is digital and not what was in the original Speedeter...