Outlaw Side Louver Panels

They would look VERY COOL !  If I ever get another Speedster they will be in it and functional.  Someone has done it already  There was a photo in Hot VW a few years ago. Not a feature article but a photo taken of cars in a car show somewhere.  They way they were terminated in the engine compartment was thru a pair of the little grills up in front that have the turn signal lights in them.  One on each side of the firewall in the upper corners. The lights functioned as "Trouble Lights" too. I thought it was a clever application and provided extra air to the engine compartment as a bonus.  If you're going to the trouble of the vents,  DO make them functional ! The grills this guy used resembled the grill in the rear deck lid.  Probably custom made by someone.  Simple function, repetition of detail in moderation almost always is a winner !..........Bruce

I forgot to mention that I think those vents are from a Spyder..........Bruce

They have been discussed here.  Do a search.  If I recall correctly, Alan Merklin's new build has them.

I think someone bought all the bits from Rafael to add them to a Speedster as well.

I have them on a Outlaw build I am doing " Rafael" owns CFM in Mexico they build Speedsters, Coupe's and dune buggies.  There is the outer grill, inner intake funnel and carbon fiber engine intake funnel. It's well made but the one caution is to use Nyloc nuts on the outer grill to avoid putting too much tension on them  . Contact is  (7) Cfm Buggy Mex | Facebook

I've seen those advertised on Facebook but I was skeptical about it being a scam. Is there nobody else that sells these?

Alan, do you recall how much the kit costs from CFM?

@Ace posted:

I've seen those advertised on Facebook but I was skeptical about it being a scam. Is there nobody else that sells these?

Would it make you feel better if you bought a set from somebody who bought them from Raphael and marked them up?

Raphael makes and sells them. Everybody I know who's dealt with him says he's a straight shooter - certainly straighter than Vintage AZ or SAW/SAS.

@Panhandle Bob - care to pipe in?

Those vents do look really (and I do mean REALLY!) cool, but does anyone know if there is any air movement through them?  An oil cooler there won't do squat if there's no airflow through it, and air pressure to the engine compartment could even be negatively impacted (making the engine run hotter) depending on the airflow over the body in that area...

I bought them from Rafael.

Three separate pieces as described above. Dumps the air in right where my dual Dells are positioned. I have a vent behind the license plate as well for hot air to escape.

Approx. $400.00 for the whole kit and kaboodle.

Mine aren't installed yet. Debating whether to have them mounted as Alan has them, or glassed into the body.

ALB. do you remember when I posted an article on here titled Manometer Test Results ?It was on July 25 2015.   The "sensor tubes" were pretty close to this area where one would install these louvered panels. The results were a + 1.5 inches (H20) or a positive pressure in that area.

Also I posted test results of measuring the pressure (negative or positive) in the engine compartment. My engine compartment was totally sealed with no 5" hole punched in the firewall. The pressure was negative by 1.5" (H2O) at about 65 to 70 mph meaning there was a slight vacuum in there.  This tells me that these "Outlaw Side Louver Panels" would provide a positive airflow into my engine compartment and eliminate the slight negative pressure in there at 65 to 70 mph.  Sounds like they would be useful.....Bruce

Not to be oppositional, Bruce, but you didn't have those vents installed in that area on your Speedster. So, I say that manometer readings without the vent holes cut in that area are somewhat meaningless.

The readings you took are meaningful for a regular Speedster though, and I appreciate the time and effort you put into it.

I'm hoping Alan can take some readings and see if "the juice is worth the squeeze." I am hoping the vents are worth it. It could cool some hot engine compartments.

My feelings are well known. More air is better - as long as it comes from the top side of the car. There are some places that are better than others to be pulling the air, but along the flanks of the car seems like it would be much, much better than the low pressure zone behind the car.

As I've said many, many times - the fan on an A/C engine is moving an enormous amount of air from the engine compartment to under the car. Unless all that air can be replaced through the grille, it's going to be a negative pressure zone.

@Panhandle Bob posted:

Dumps the air in right where my dual Dells are positioned.

Cautionary tale: One of the mods I did to my Ducati Monster was remove the air box and use UNI foam pod filters on a pair of FCR carburetors. Worked great until it started raining one day about 30 miles from home.

My bike would only idle or run WOT, not a pleasant experience on a motorcycle in the rain. My only option was to find a pavilion in a city park and wait out the storm.

Point being, I’d fashion some sort of water protection if those vents “dump in air right on your dells.” I have yet to fashion a splash shield for the Ducati, but I ride it so seldom anymore, and never in the rain, it’s not a priority.

You could always put a pair of CB Turbo Hats on the carbs and point the inlet away from the rain source, like towards the rear.

Yeah, more than one reason to filter to keep moisture out, or at least keep the Dells dry. I don't drive it in the rain or when there is the threat of it though.

One more thing to figure out.

Perhaps you are right Danny.  I wish I had installed the vents in "Rhonda" but I'm not sure that the idea came up during the time I could have easily done it. Like before the car was painted. I'm NOT having them installed on my Spyder because I don't particularly like the way they look on it.   A Speedster....Yes.  The  same for the leather straps on the rear bonnet of the Spyder. To me,  they look like an after thought to fix a problem.  By 1955, most cars were past this practice to hold the hood down. But that's me and I care about if I like the way it looks.  (What wheels to buy is driving me nuts still,)

Back to those vents.  Part of the reason I wanted to test that area was because, by that time, I DID know about them and wanted to know what kind of pressure (negative or positive) was flowing by there. I already knew that there is a vacuum in my engine compartment, (although not a huge one) so I wanted to know if I would get air to flow into the engine compartment if vents were cut in around that area. My tests turned out to show that the flow probably would go in the right direction.  Of course, as you know in your experiences, things don't always turn out like you think they will when modifications are done. But, based on the data I collected, I would install those vents and expect them to not only look good but actually improve a small deficiency in the engine compartment cooling air system.

Now here's another thing !  Someone mentioned rain or water getting in thru those vents.  I hadn't even thought about that ! Especially in view of the fact that we have a "Rain Guard" under the air intake grill in the rear bonnet. That's there for a good reason.  So now there may be a water intrusion problem with these vents dumping right on the air cleaners.  In Rain, that could be a big problem !  Perhaps some sort of baffles could be incorporated in the duct work or just inside the engine compartment between the carb. filter and the inlet vent on the firewall. I guess we could just not drive in the rain but that may not always be an option..............Bruce

@Gordon Nichols posted:

You could always put a pair of CB Turbo Hats on the carbs and point the inlet away from the rain source, like towards the rear.

The only thing I would worry about that is you’re going from an air inlet are of what? 36 sq in to one of about 4? Those are designed to forced induction, where it wouldn’t be a problem.

AFAIK, that’s why most FI chips, or the FCRs in the case of my Ducati, advise the modification or removal of the air box to facilitate greater inlet airflow.

Some enterprising lad could easily write a cad file for a plasma table that could turn some simple aluminum plate into a shield, with the base shaped like an air cleaner gasket, a 90° bend and a water shield.

Sorta like this:

The cylinders only draw one at a time on a 4-cyl engine. Anything that flows more than each venturi flows enough to feed that throat.

There's probably a slight loss. I can't feel it with my calibrated butt-dyno.

Calibrated Butt Dyno !!!   Love it Stan !  Not CBD though !

dlearl476.......Love your "CAD" baffle  !  probably would work too !

@dlearl476 posted:

Some enterprising lad could easily write a cad file for a plasma table that could turn some simple aluminum plate into a shield, with the base shaped like an air cleaner gasket, a 90° bend and a water shield.

Sorta like this:

Cad shmad,

You can make a pair of theses with basic hand tools and some rivets.

There ya go Ace !  We found you a source and "Horseback Engineered"  (with WAG'S and windage) a water baffle !  Now you gotta do all the work !  Ha ha ..........Bruce

@Carlos G posted:

Cad shmad,

You can make a pair of theses with basic hand tools and some rivets.

True, but with a cad file and an air jet/laser table you could make 10 in about 5 minutes. Out of one sheet of aluminum. Hence the “enterprising” part.

But thanks for reminding me Carlos, I’m going to take the “Geezer Paint Your Own Car” class this summer at the community college and I can use their sheet metal brakes to finally make a shield for my monster.

@aircooled posted:

dlearl476.......Love your "CAD" baffle  !  probably would work too !

My first car was an Austin America. Great little car (Cadillac meets Mini) but it had one flaw: the distributor was right behind the grill on the transverse engine. In a good rainstorm, it would soak it and misfires preceded total no/go.

Cure was a simple piece of aluminum with 25° bends on each end screwed to the inside of the grill. The holes were already drilled in the backside of the grill, almost as if it got left off in production.

Installed it and never had another issue.

@Alan Merklin would you be willing/able to share couple photos of the back side of the louver panel (inside fender area) and entrance to the engine compartment??  I'm really curious about this as my CMC body is sill very much in the pre-paint stage.  (As in needing full prep.)

Wrenn:

I'll post some pics of the three parts of the louvre system uninstalled. Pretty straight forward.

I do have a concern about the curvatures of the exterior piece lining up with the existing curvatures of the car body.

On Alan's build the louvre piece is glassed into the body and I assume the other two pieces are glassed in to the inner wheel well and the wall of the engine compartment. It looks like a hose of some sort is necessary to connect the two inner parts.

Emory hinges his outer louvre piece into the body and it, then, is not glassed in. He also as a lock on it, it appears.

I am leaning towards simply having the louvre piece flush with the body, but not glassed into it at the edge. . There would be a small gap between the edge of the louvre and the body itself as appears on an Emory. No hinge or lock. Glassing would be at the back, inside the wheel well and connecting the inner piece to the outer louvre piece and the wheel well itself. Likewise the third piece would be glassed into the engine bay wall on the wheel well side as well.

The trick would be getting the cut correct in the body of the car. Scares the heck out of me.

These are some pics I got from CFM of the full kit.

Thank you both!  understand perfectly...  Looks like there needs to be some drain holes added to the lower portion of the inner panel if you glass the louver panel to the body.

You can just order and use the outer grills, ( mine was already assemble on the car )cutting the quarter panel to fit the grill, slightly rounding the cut edges and cut a piece of aluminum and bonding that to the inner side of the quarter as the inner framework to rest the grill against.

Ace beat me to it.

Thanks for the photo's Ace.  I didn't know these parts were available.  I found some drawings I did back around 2015 when I was contemplating doing this. My vision was to have the inlet up in the upper-left (and right)  corners of the firewall. This would pretty much eliminate a water intrusion onto the air cleaners. Especially if a baffle or baffles were incorporated.  Also I wanted the lower radius of the inlet panel to follow the radius of the fender well opening.......Bruce

FWIW, Those louvers are backwards, increasing the chance of water ingress.

Makes me wonder about what Danny alluded to earlier: what’s the air pressure in that area of the body? Looks to me like those were intended to exhaust air out of the engine compartment. Or help suck it from the grills past the carbs.

dlearl476;

Take a look at Emory's site.

Interesting......According to my measurements in that area it was positive 1.5" H2o. @ @3" standoff @ 70mph.

I may have reversed the louvers to scoop in air..........Bruce

@Panhandle Bob posted:

dlearl476;

Take a look at Emory's site.

So he puts his on backwards, too?

I guess it depends on whether you want to get air in or let it out.

If Bruce’s measurement translate to a Spyder, I think they’d still get air in. They’d just allow less water in. Kinda like the reverse hood scoops on a Pontiac Trans Am.
I imagine the best way to exhaust air would be to flip the louvers to they stick out instead of in:

dlearl476.....Didn't those Pumpjack Trans Am's have a negative pressure somewhere around that scoop ?  Seems to me there was something weird about them.  Maybe it was the grill in front of the windshield..........Bruce

Yes, that’s true, but the Trans Am (GM) scoop also relied heavily on a high pressure area created just in front of the bottom of the windshield.  

I kind-of wonder how much water would be pushed in through those quarter-panel side vents.  Liquid water is heavier and would, I believe, be pushed off towards the side, rather than going into the duct and I would be surprised if there would be enough water intrusion to saturate oil impregnated air cleaner media, especially if that media is towards the rear of the engine compartment.  

Even with normal air cleaner placement in the compartment, the duct would, I assume, end about 12” in front of the leading edge of the air cleaner so I think everyone is chasing a Red Herring, here.