outlaws

That's a beauty. The silver Pre-A outlaw is no slouch either: www.europeancollectibles.com/ec_reborn/inventory_detail.aspx?@page_inv_id=Po1198

um... isn't it the same car?

Sorry Jerome, I think I will have you beat. Looks like I will be able to stuff 265/50's on my 8x15 fuchs I just got. I know George would not approve but hey, whats a little more more unsprung weight? I have a 2056 Raby TIV. Should be plenty of power to push some big fat tires.

Pictures here

Oops, sorry. I had trouble with the link and thought you were referring to the black one: www.europeancollectibles.com/ec_reborn/inventory_detail.aspx?@page_inv_id=Po1196

Chris, Put whatever you want to on your car but there is a point of deminishing returns as relates to tire width and traction. I don't know what that is on a speedster replica but we know it when we get there. As it was explained to me a long time ago, the energy generated by tires overwhelms the suspension and puts tremendous loads on the wheel bearings. Also when you loose traction on a low aspect ratio tire, its harder to get it back.One thing for sure, you ought to be able to stop quickly.
ed

Chris,

265's ! You may need a shoe-horn to squeeze them in there!! Remember to double and triple check your measurements. Having your wheels for measuring purposes will help you allot. I was figuring everything with cardboard templates. Keep in mind the suspension does move a little side to side so be sure to leave a little clearance.

Long live the Fat-Ride/J'lo/Outlaw look!

Later,

Jerome

I often wondered if any Frigelton German Mail trucks ever made it to the USA. Where was that picture taken, Mr Dryer?

I have my rims, and am getting one 265 mounted to make sure it will fit everywhere. Part of the reason for going up to 265's was the local LeShwab said 245/50x15 was not an available tire size, nor was 255/50x15 or 235/50x15. My options were 235/60 which was a little on the tall side and did not fill things out very well, or 225/40 which was too short a tire. I do have some carboard cutouts which has helped me do some rough estimates on fit and it looks OK. I will need to do a little more modifications to get by BAS mufflers tucked in a little tighter.

Breaking traction is something to keep in the back of my mind, but for the most part I'm not going to get crazy in this thing. It's more for the looks, sculpture as Jerome puts it!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep everyone posted on how it goes.

PS. Jereome is just jealous I may have fatter tires ;)

Not having flared fenders to house my tyres i'm happy to have finally got good bridgestone 195/60R15s on my car having had to temporarily swap to 175/65R15s due to fender clearance issues.

Gained some valuable clearance by getting hold of some chrome 15x5.5 5-205 wheels which have an extra 10mm of offset (25mm rather than the normal 15mm). The 6 month wait for them from brazil was worth it :) The price of wanting the outlaw look and not running hub-caps! (the 15x5.5 4-130 pattern wheels have a 25mm offset as standard)

Outlaws rule :)

I have an opinion on defining an Outlaw. A car may have these, more or less and contribute to the Outlaw culture:

Shaved side chrome, bonnet handle, emblems
Shaved bumpers, with or without nerf bars
Lowered suspension
Roll bar, 3 or 4 point belts
altered package tray or hard tonneau cover
altered interior, typically sparse interior, even no door panels
fat wheels and tires (mags or not)
classic graphics, like numbers or sponsors (Mobile Pegasus)

The list goes on, just a few key features that come to mind.

I think the "no door panels" would be deleted as soon as you take a trip of more than an hour. After that you would want both the door panels returned, as well as adding arm rests to them!!

What's the scoop on the package tray? Haven't seen one on Speedsters around here.

I don't just associate the term OUTLAW with the pleasingly plump butted speedsters, but with the canyon racing scene of the 1960's where cars fit for the race track were raced up on Mulholland. By my definition a tricked-out GT is an OUTLAW just as is the Rubanesque model, it is a question of "attitude." Viva la difference!

Looking at the posts on wheel widths, I had a dune buggy back in the late '60's and first used standard (5 1/2") VW wide 5's, but turned around backward so they would stick out. That looked pretty good, but they were still skinny, so I got two more for the rear and welded them together at the rim lip, making a rim that was 11" wide and dished Waaaaayyyy out there! I remember running BIG tires on them, 850 X 16's from a big old Buick or something, but I had to run TWO inner tubes side-by-side to get the tire to "pooch" out sideways and fill the rims nicely, but MAN! Were they WIDE!. I put the hubcap clips back on and ran VW "Moon" hubcaps that looked like they were inside of a tunnel. The rear looked like a mini bucket "T"

They turned out to be super effective in the sand after I let most of the air out of them, and I had to attach the tires to the rims with sheet metal screws to keep them from turning when soft.

Only had a stock 36hp engine, so forget about doing anything radical, but it was a really cool Summer car!

gn

This Outlaw is from France

Hey Gordon, I loved your wheel story ! These are the kinds of projects a guy takes on when he is young. One of the hardest parts I find about getting older is the nagging feeling of always having to do things "correctly". It was a lot more Fun in the old days !
DAMN THE TORPEDOS !

Hey Gordon, I loved your wheel story ! These are the kinds of projects a guy takes on when he is young. One of the hardest parts I find about getting older is the nagging feeling of always having to do things "correctly". It was a lot more Fun in the old days !
DAMN THE TORPEDOS !

That dune buggy body was made entirely of shaped plywood. I headed to Central America in May of 1967 and bought the original #1 copy of "Dune Buggies and Hot VW's" on the way to the airport - it changed my life......read about Sal Haven's all-wood dune buggy (Haven's Hull) and decided that, while I couldn't afford a fiberglass body when I returned, I could probably swing a wooden one like Sal's. I cut the body panels to shape per paper and cardboard templates, then soaked them in a stream in back of my Dad's house overnight, then put them in place and slowly walked them in to position using LOTS of "C" clamps. Held it all together with 1" angle iron. There were very few straight lines in this car - it was all compound curves and looked very much like a fiberglass body. It lasted for four years while I had it, then another three after I sold it (I spotted it then in a Northeastern University parking lot) and then I lost track of it so don't know if if finally died or not.

I may still have some pictures of it around.....if I can find one or two I'll scan them and post them for you.

Cool.....I'll look forward to them. You still up around the Boston area ?

I'm looking for a pair of front hood straps (like the GT's) in light tan. Anybody know of a good, reasonably-priced source? I saw some in a catalog today for $239.00! Yikes!!

Bruce, I went on an websearch, and came up with a guy in England. I bought a bueatiful set. He had them in light natural leather, and dark brown..........$29.00 american. They had the metal fittings at both ends and all the hardware for fastening. I actually used them on my engine lid because I couldnt find the correct latch system, and would have had to do some fabrication to even make the latch system work. I also felt that the front hood latch takes such great pulling strength to work, I didn't want to fool with that for the rear.
I will look for my invoice, and see if I can find the contact info......try the search through Google first.


G Clarke "The Vacaville guy"

Bruce, I just found the receipt for the leather straps

Classic Car Accesories
1 Bally creen Rd.
Nevermind all this junk...
the website is www.classic-car-accessories.co.uk
Part # cxs021 Heavy duty bonnett straps-brown total cost of 26.50 english pounds....I think it was abou twenty- something dollars

Hey! We dug around for a few days and finally found a couple of pictures of my first "Outlaw" - an outlaw Dunebuggy made from plywood back in 1967. Shortened 1957 VW pan with the body held on with angle iron bent to fit the pan shape. Body was Marine plywood soaked overnight in a stream and then bent to fit the angle-iron shapes, REO Truck headlights with integral directionals, flat windshield, full size stainless steel Beer-keg gas tank, dual driving brake, 36hp VW engine, 1965 full-synchro gearbox, 16" VW rims (reversed) all around with dual-wide rims on the rear (11" wide!!) with 850X16 rear tires and dual tubes per wheel. It wasn't fast, but it went ANYWHERE in sand and never left me stranded. Paint was metallic green over two-part epoxy boat primer (sort-of like thin gel coat).

It was registered as (believe-it-or-not) a CAMPER(!!) so I had to have a cooking device on board (a one-burner, Coleman propane stove).

This vehicle received the very last two-wheel-drive, over-the-sand permit for the Cape Cod National Seashore in 1970 before most over-the-sand vehicles were banned from the park. It also watched the filming of the beach chase scene in the original "Thomas Crowne Affir" with Steve McQueen, filmed at the Cape Cod National Sea Shore (Steve was driving a Corvair-powered Deserter dunebuggy made in Marblehead, Mass.).

These pictures were taken two years apart. The one with the side curtains and padded vinyl roof also had narrower, Chevy rims which handled far poorer, but the tires were MUCH easier to mount and balance. The rear window was a sandwich affair with my initials in white vinyl between two sheets of clear. The 15 gallon beer keg held enough fuel for about two weeks of cruising (at less than 30 cents per gallon back then!)

Thought you guys might like to see some really early outlaw pictures!!

Gordon

Gary,

After alot of searching and comparing I purchased a couple of hood straps from the company you suggested - Classic Car Accessories in England. Good price and great service. The straps look reddish on his website but he explained in his e-mail that they were the light tan I wanted and he was right. Thanks for the suggestion.

Bruce,,,,,your welcome



Gar Clarke "The Vacaville Guy"

I've had my eye on installing a GT-type (through the hood) filler cap. After alot of digging around I believe I have all the needed parts. One original Speedster cap from NLA Limited ($30), 4" stainless fuel pipe from an RV Center ($10), lightened handle created from 1/8" steel from Home Depot ($3), new fuel tank because no one wanted to weld on the used one ($0, thanks Greg Billesbach, I owe you!), chain from marine store to attach cap to filler neck ($2) and aluminum catch pan from camping messkit ($9).

Since I don't want to go to the expense of fabricating an original-style tank and do not have an original tank neck the plan is to adapt the VW-style cap into the Speedster cap, cut the VW filler neck out of the tank and weld it into the large-diameter filler pipe and then weld filler pipe to the center of the VW tank. Cut a 4" hole in the aluminum catch pan, add a drain tube and hose, weld brackets to the fuel tube for mounting the pan. Paint the tank and powercoat the cap. Result should look like the photo below without the trim ring (which I don't believe was is original.

All I need now is a welder!

Bruce, your car just keeps getting better and better. Hope these mods are in place in time for Carlisle so we all can see it.

Thanks, Stacey. One good thing about not being painted yet is the projects can continue without worrying about drillig more holes or scratching anything. Primer will also be a new addition at Carlisle.

See you there!

My Outlaw Speedster as it appeared in the Liege-Rome-Liege Road race in the 50's.

Yep, that's the ticket.. No, really, and my wife is Morgan Fairchild.

Brian.

Who's the sleeveless dolly in the background?

Looks like Katerina Witt - The German Skater.......she must be older than she looks!

Interesting, I don't recall seeing may "original" 356's with flares but this one appears to have them. Do you have any shots from a different angle, Brian?

Cute, Brian, now tell them "the rest of the story" Eddie

Uhhh,

The flares were present only on the Italian bodied 356's. I believe the coachworks were called "d'italia photoshopia"

Whuh?...it could've happened...

By the way, that's my cousin Sophia in the background, sooo keep your comments clean....

Registered for Knott's and Reserved at the Courtyard!!

See you at the parking lot!

Eddie, call to discuss drive down.

Brian.

The car that I'm working on right now is an "original" . . . a very subjective word, '55 Continental Coupe. I had been planning on cutting the rear off to make a fiberglass/steel Speedster. I've been accumlating the bits and pieces necessary for the conversion,but after reading this thread, I may hold off for longer than planned. (My wife will kill me, as she is in love with the car from Doc Hollywood, and I told her that I'd try to duplicate it.)

Is there a company that sells only the wide flairs? I think that I may graft them to the coupe for that "Tiny, Tubby, and Tough" look that everyone's talking about. Of course that would mean going with the ATS/225 wheels/tires and putting the ones from Brian asside for a time. But maybe . . . if I could find the flairs.

Any help would help.

TC

Oh-all those cool pics on the Obsolete Parts site have been down for months! I doubt that they'll ever come back. The old site was great!! Those pictures/cars are works of art!!! He's a genius, and one of the great inovators I have to say. What a brilliant thing to do with a Porsche parts car . . .

Hey,

All of this Outlaw talk . . .

I just checked through my car videos and found an early eighties number called King of the Mountain. In it, Harry Hamlin (LA Law) drives and Outlaw Speedster on the Mulholland run and finally gives it up to an old Stingray driven by Dennis Hopper !?. Real cheesy throughout but great (long) action sequences of the cars. I was only into it for the canyon carving anyway.

I might be able to run off some dupes if anyone is interested?

TC

That would make the Outlaw look about 20 years old!!?? I never realized 'til now.

The way the flares were made on the metal 356s varied, but here is one way. Start by drawing and etching an arch along the fender that will be the top line of your flare. Pull the inner fender lip out, that's where it is folded under the fender opening. Now you can choose if you want to try to stretch and hammer as much of the flare bubble out, or make a few cuts every inch or inch and a half and tap those out to represent the outer rolled dimension of the flare. If you want a good flare like the CMC-C, you will have to cut the metal at the top of the fender well, where the flare is most prominent. And, you will fill the gaps back in with fiberglass mat and resin. If you get the metal worked very close to right, you will be able to shape the glass and resin with a paint brush and the palm of your hand as it cures and hardens. Getting it laid up just right to begin with is not that hard as you work it slowly. The closer you get it to right to begin with, the more consistent and easier it will be to build it up smoothly to a finished flare. I've used a shapely, rounded piece of a beetle fender -- cut with a jig saw -- as a consistent form hand held in place while I laid up the glass on top with kitchen plastic wrap.

That plastic wrap over a rounded form is a GREAT idea! If I can't score a pre-made set, I'll definately try making a test set using that method.

TC

Team evil

I was starting to think I was the only one who ever saw the movie "KINg of the Mountain". The storyline is lame and they should have stuck more to the racing. It's the only movie I know of that really has a outlaw speedster showcased thru the flick. Love the race action and dennis Hopper is the man. He saved that flick. I tried to find the movie on Dvd but no could find. I did buy a vhs version recently off ebay. Harry, drives one badass outlaw in the flick. Is that a oil cooler sticking out of the trunk vent? Who made the car? Is the car still around? Tried to find it online but to no avail. Anybody know much about it?

Truth be told, our own Rick Antunes has the original outlaw tucked away in his geerage. It is safely stowed alongside his Vintage and his Webber. He has also added a Harry Hamlin Hall of Shame wing to his pueblo. Rick sets up his stand on the corner each weekend and sells bootlegged uncut versions of the movie...the version where Harry doesn't blink as often when thrown lines that lead deeper into his character.

Hmm, perhaps I should make a remake of "KIng of the Mountain", but less acting and more driving action. I dabble a bit in independent film making. I could use my outlaw to star in it. The driving action would be the toughest thing to shoot.