Paint Protective Film, etc.

There is also a paint treatment known as ceramic coating, which I have seen on a few cars.  Here is another thing I will not claim to understand, but apparently this compound (a 2 oz bottle of the stuff that will do a whole car and costs $400!!) will last 3-5 years, depending. I'm hoping the film thing is a once-and-done deal.

How far back did you take the film?

to the windshield base and down the front door seams.

@El Frazoo i had my car repainted due to road rash from the front to the windshield to perfectly match the paint... and had the paint corrected on the rest of the car...since the result is only as good as what you begin with...and then had PPF done from the front to the windshield including the front bumper...and then had the entire car ceramic coated....i should have done it from delivery of the car 4 years ago...but now its been over a year and it's a NO BRAINER to do....my car will never get dirty enough to wash again with a bucket & some soap....a good ceramic detail spray and good micro cloth is all it will ever need...it wasn't cheap, but was a good investment...if possible i highly recommend doing so!...the results speak for themselves....

nice picture

@El Frazoo

El:  I had my clear, 7mil nose film applied in 2005-ish? by THE Go-To guy for PPFs in Rhode Island at that time.  He did all of the new dealership cars as an option for Bentley, Jaguar, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura and Porsche in RI.   It was the first 356 he had done and it took him all afternoon.  He used a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol to apply it, and then squeegeed the excess out from under the film with some special little squeegee blocks.  THAT is why it has to sit for 3 weeks after application - It allows time for anything left between the body and film to evaporate.  He was very "persnickety", too, because the entire car is 3D compound curves and VERY difficult to wrap properly.  I am sure that the wrapping process has improved since 2005, but much of the difficulty has to do with the thickness of the film.  I wanted 10mil stuff but he said his best hope for a quality job stretching it over those voluptuous curves was 7mil.  Thinner, but covered the curves better.  

BTW:  After he finished mine to his (and my) satisfaction, he told me he never wanted to do another 356, Evah!

My film goes up to about mid-hood and down to the edge of the wheel wells, so yours covers a much larger area.  If I were to do it today, I would also add a swatch in front of the rear wheel wells, but mine is a flared fender and sticks out more - You probably wouldn't need that area covered.  My job, 18 years ago, cost me around $650 for him and his assistant/girlfriend and it took an entire afternoon with me supplying coffee.  He came to my place and did it in the garage - It was in the Spring, but warm-ish.

In the past 18 years I have taken several direct hits on the front of the car and the film repelled all of them.  BUT!  One of the projectiles was about the size of a walnut, I saw and heard it hit (Thwack!) and it must have had a projection right where it hit because it punctured the film -  Still, the film protected the paint and there was/is no chip evident.  The film suffered a pin-hole puncture just below a headlight that would allow water to get inside the film and discolor over time.  The cure for that, according to a couple of website forums I read, was a very tiny dab of clear fingernail polish on the ding every Spring to prevent water intrusion.  It's been working great for 18 years, now.  Now that I think of it, my film material came from BASF.  

Also, after 18 years, mine is just starting to yellow or darken just a bit on my white car.  It may, (if it happens) be far less noticeable on a darker car like yours.  I justified the $650 cost at the time compared to a nose re-spray at around $5,000 with my three-part paint, knowing that it'll be almost impossible to duplicate the pearlescent color.  So far, I haven't had to.

PPF is pretty much required here in Charleston and I’ve had it on the black BMW since it was a few weeks old and it’s getting put on the new car in a bit over a week.  It’s great, but it does age over time if left outdoors, and you cannot correct small scratches as you can with paint.  It protects against damage to a point, but after that you either live with the damage or replace it.  My 2011 BMW is on its third application, but it sat outside for its first 6 years in the Charleston climate.  I expect the new car’s PPF to last longer now that I have sufficient indoor parking and it won’t be my commuter.

Ceramic coating over PPF, that’s a new one on me.

As I posted elsewhere, I’m totally in love with Optimum No Rinse and HyperSeal. Previous to that, I had a color correction and pro coating* done on my 968 that lasted 6 years including a 2 winters in NY outdoors under a NOAH cover. I had it freshened up in 2017 when I was in Las Vegas to get my suspension rebuilt. It was still holding up when I did the Optimim stuff earlier this year.

Getting this stuff costs a fortune for a detailer to do. Other than the Color Correction, I can clay brick and apply ceramic as good as they can. My total investment in the Optimum job was <$100, including product, 2 clay bricks, and 30 microfiber towels. (And it’s enough product to last 10 years) They say annual recoatings but in looking at doing another coat soon. (I left the cover on it parked in my complex on a windy day and it scuffed a couple of areas on the fenders)

I do wish I’d have had the new nose PPF’d when it was installed, though. I didn’t because I was an idiot and didn’t want to repaint the hood (because insurance wouldn’t cover it) and the shop told me it wouldn’t stick because there were too many tiny rock chips in the paint.

* I don’t know what process Glossit used prior to the “Ceramic” craze. That’s what they do now, and I can’t help but think the previous coating was something very similar.

@Lane Anderson  What do they have to do to remove the old PPF without damaging the paint?

@dlearl476 posted:

Ceramic coating over PPF, that’s a new one on me.

As I posted elsewhere, I’m totally in love with Optimum No Rinse and HyperCoat. Previous to that, I had a color correction and pro coating* done on my 968 that lasted 6 years including a 2 winters in NY outdoors under a NOAH cover. I had it freshened up in 2017 when I was in Las Vegas to get my suspension rebuilt. It was still holding up when I did the Optimim stuff earlier this year.

Getting this stuff costs a fortune for a detailer to do. Other than the Color Correction, I can clay brick and apply ceramic as good as they can. My total investment in the Optimum job was <$100, including product, 2 clay bricks, and 30 microfiber towels. (And it’s enough product to last 10 years) They say annual recoatings but in looking at doing another coat soon. (I left the cover on it parked in my complex on a windy day and it scuffed a couple of areas on the fenders)

I do wish I’d have had the new nose PPF’d when it was installed, though. I didn’t because I was an idiot and didn’t want to repaint the hood (because insurance wouldn’t cover it) and the shop told me it wouldn’t stick because there were too many tiny rock chips in the paint.

* I don’t know what process Glossit used prior to the “Ceramic” craze. That’s what they do now, and I can’t help but think the previous coating was something very similar.

Interesting Where did you get those products?  

I have Xpel on the front of my car

Ray

@Gordon Nichols posted:

@Lane Anderson  What do they have to do to remove the old PPF without damaging the paint?

Pay somebody else to do it - usually the person apply the new stuff.

And yes, ceramic on PPF is a good thing as the PPF ages much more slowly when coated.

@IaM-Ray posted:

Interesting Where did you get those products?  

I have Xpel on the front of my car

Ray

I got mine from Amazon Ray but they have a website as well. The Rag Company.

The products I use are Opticoat No Rinse and Hyper Seal.

As I posted in the other thread, I bought it after an imaginary internet friend on another site raved about it after they came and did a product demo at his PCA chapter meeting. And my review is every bit as glowing. As a matter of fact, I’m taking a gallon of water out to my parking lot car port to “wash” my car right now.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

@Lane Anderson  What do they have to do to remove the old PPF without damaging the paint?

A little bit of heat and a gentle pull. After the water/alcohol they use to apply it dries, it’s just held on by surface tension. Once you lift a corner, it pretty much comes right off like pulling masking tape off the roll.

That’s what I thought.  Mine is anchored on there like it would take dynamite to remove it, but a little heat usually softens everything, so no surprise there.   I’ll not be removing mine in the near future, but I was curious.

Never pull it straight up.  Always at a low angle to the surface or you will pull up some paint.

When I took delivery of my '23 Porsche Boxster I bartered with the guy that owns the local PPF shop that does all of the cars for the local Porsche Dealership. I had done a couple long distance deliveries for him and in return he PPF'd my entire car, ceramic coated it, and tinted all of the windows. I saved him a ton of money on the deliveries and he save me a ton of money on the PPF.

And yes Dave, you apply the ceramic right over the top of the PPF. It does all of the same stuff over the top of the film that it would do over the top of the paint. As a result my Box has only seen an actual foam cannon wash twice in since I took delivery in December. Otherwise I only use a product very similar to ONR but I buy it from my local detailing shop and it's a 3M product.

Modern XPEL PPF film is guaranteed against yellowing, cracking, blistering, and delaminating for 10 years. If any of those things happen just take it back to the shop that installed it and have them redo it.

And there is way more than surface tension holding it in place. There is an adhesive holding it in place. It takes heat to remove it it and then a more work to clean up what is left on the car.

Perhaps it’s changed. When I removed the “clear bra” from my 911, I sat it in the sun for a bit, took my little electronics heat gun to a corner and pulled it off.  Like Lane said, pulling it straight back at an angle with the heat gun running along the edge. Once it was warm, it would somethimes pull up 6”-8” at a time.

FWIW, The vinyl we played around with in my Plastic/PDR class didn’t have any adhesive on it. It had backing paper to keep it dust-free, like a screen protector, but no adhesive. I could be applied, removed, and applied again with a fresh spray of alcohol/water.  

I'll check on the exact product used.  Guy said it was 8 mil.  He praised it as being SO much better than what was available even a couple of years ago. And it has a very sticky adhesive applied. Working with it is a real challenge, so he says.  @Gordon Nichols shared a pic of his application a while back with a very interesting cut pattern to his film around the headlight area to get it to conform. This newer stuff on my car has none of that.

A friend had some old film removed from her Mustang GT after many years.  It was applied to the whole car  when car was new.  She had a very tough time finding any shop that would attempt to remove it, saying the job was horrendous and would be super expensive. She ended up doing it herself over a couple of week ends.  I think her deal is to have it redone after a freshening of the paint.  Side note:  she thinks a repair shop damaged her left side door when the car was in for other work,  She thinks they removed the film there, fixed the damage, repainted and reapplied film, then said nothing to her about it.  When she peeled that door, the paint/clear coat came off with the film.  If her theory is correct, the film was applied without letting the paint cure.  As mentioned, my film guy wanted 6 weeks after paint to begin filming.

Ceramic over PPF is a new thought.  Had not imagined that any such thing would be needed or even desirable.  I do garage my car, so I'm imagining that adding ceramic might be more than its worth. Hmmm . . .

The flip side of that is why not do everything possible to maintain an expensive PPF job?

For all any of us non-chemists know, the ceramic coating might be every bit as beneficial to the film as the paint.  IIRC, the HyperSeal stuff I use has UV blockers in it. AFAIK, that’s the #1 killer of vinyl.  

You can do an easy ceramic job with Griot's ceramic detailer.  I've used that exclusively on the Old Faithful (black BMW) for several years and it looks good and holds up very well. Much easier than wax and seems to be more effective as well.  Cost is minimal.  I washed and clayed the car first (except for the PPF) and then just went over it with the ceramic detailer.  A fairly easy one day job.

I would like to do ppf over the front of my speedster, however there are already quite a bit of rock chips up there, so the film would look awful if applied. I'm either going to repaint the front and get film applied, or to let it get chipped up.

Now a days, STEK is generally considered the best film in the industry. It comes with a ceramic top coat for the hydrophobicity. Its not cheap, a bulk install of just the front on a speedy is likely to be $2000-2500 because there are no templates of our cars. Film is removed just like tint, best with a steamer, OK with a heat gun. Generally it has a 5-7y lifetime before it becomes more brittle and the glue starts to separate from the film itself, making it more difficult to remove. New films don't yellow like the old stuff from the early 2000's.

I have full front ppf on all my exotics and partial front on my daily drivers. It also handles small impacts better as my wife's car was hit in a parking lot on the film and it did no damage to the actual paint. It also makes quick detailing worry free as you'll never add microswirls to a good PPF, it'll self heal in the sun.

My guy says the product is Xpel.  They make a ceramic detailer, that sounds like what lane has mentioned. My installer says ceramic over the PPF is fine and recommends.

Bump:

For completeness, I did say I'd provide a picture or two when all said and done.  I finally got the car back about two weeks ago.  The film guy has been very busy and he takes his sweet time to do it right.  Apparently, he has quite a reputation, and gets cars trucked in from all over.  Anyway, the challenge of this curvaceous Speedster was met and I'll say it met very well.  The application looks perfect to me.  A couple of pictures as promised.

That car has the wind of desire in it’s veins .  Beautiful

or

That car has the wine of desire in it’s veins .  Beautiful

Wow, Kelly. Wow!

nice!   a great investment!...and it will never get dirty enough to wash with a bucket of water & soap again....now ceramic coat the entire car..then all you need is good microfiber cloths and some good ceramic detail spray....check out "ignition"  by "shine products" in ventura...but lots others just as good...happy motoring!

Kelly, the Resto shop will not let me apply PPF for six months. I am sure that is over kill but there was big time and money on the fabrication and paint.  I had the Xpel on the IM for 8 years and it looked good still(garaged of course)

How long has the paint been on Marty?   I would think they baked it  no?

@IaM-Ray posted:

How long has the paint been on Marty?   I would think they baked it  no?

It’s been 6 months. I’ll do the film soon. Not sure if I’ll go up 24-30inch or do the whole hood.

Marty, I'd say back  to the door seams and windshield. Good clean look. 6 mos wait seems extreme, but I'm guessing there was much else to do anyway.  RAVE ON!!

@Marty Grzynkowicz posted:

It’s been 6 months. I’ll do the film soon. Not sure if I’ll go up 24-30inch or do the whole hood.

I can't remember how long we waited for IM to Xpel my car but it had to be somewhere around 6-9 months. it could be a year, it took a while to finish the build

I think i would call XPEL myself to confirm how long from paint to film.  Nothing worse than having rock chips.

It's a good thing to wait as long as possible to paint fiberglass, and then for that to cure and put film on it.